14900 KS - the fastest Intel processor ever just launched

[kapone32]

Ah yes, two popular air coolers and a cheap AIO are "the best on the market". Another shifting of goalposts I see once your original claims regarding price and "disingenuous" are refuted. By the way the NH-D15 is a cooler that has been around for quite a while and is shortly going to be replaced by the NH-D16 which has been in development for some time now.

What's your original point?

Are you trying to imply that the 14900KS can't be cooled by a "standard" cooler? Air or otherwise? This is false.

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I am not claiming that at all. I am sure that it will work with any cooler just not at full throttle.

 

[ThrashZone]

I am not claiming that at all. I am sure that it will work with any cooler just not at full throttle.

Hi,
Yeah means power limits removed as well as timers extended to max, just those bring the real heat hehe

Talk about bios setting well there they are anything else like pl limits is just "manually" gimping a chip

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Next gen is Foveros (advanced tiles with backside power delivery and disaggregated nodes).
That combined with RibbonFET (gate all around transistors) should lead to a significant jump in performance per watt, while also avoiding the high idle/low load power draw Zen chips are known for, due to their simple chiplet design with an IO die built on an old process. The Intel design has a single "E core" within the "IO die" equivalent too, so that should enable even lower idle than what Intel currently has, since the main CPU die won't need to be even powered on for idle, or things like video decoding (if you're only watching something on YouTube or from a file, the main CPU die can be powered off).

Apparently Zen 6 is going to move to a better organic/silicon substrate (similar to Intel's own packaging tech with Foveros), which should be one of the options available from TSMC. I do wonder if that will still be on AM5 though.

Here's the current round up from the TPU upcoming hardware article.

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Can't wait for intels next gen. This is a pretty new thing for them with i guess real world tests of foveros and BPD. Not fussed about another new socket as this is for a completely new gen. There are quite a few new things in this new gen.
Lokking forward to see what the new D16 is like too.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Ah yes, two popular air coolers and a cheap AIO are "the best on the market". Another shifting of goalposts I see once your original claims regarding price and "disingenuous" are refuted. By the way the NH-D15 is a cooler that has been around for quite a while and is shortly going to be replaced by the NH-D16 which has been in development for some time now.

What's your original point?

Are you trying to imply that the 14900KS can't be cooled by a "standard" cooler? Air or otherwise? This is false.

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My D15S is doing OK with the 13900KS even on the harsh Brazilian summer heat. For the record, we're having 100°F ambient today.

Can't wait for intels next gen. This is a pretty new thing for them with i guess real world tests of foveros and BPD. Not fussed about another new socket as this is for a completely new gen. There are quite a few new things in this new gen.
Lokking forward to see what the new D16 is like too.

Yet at the same time, I reckon Raptor Lake is going to remain quite the unique processor for a while to come. Especially the KS units.

Don't you all get it by now?
AMD CPU's run hot by design , so they can be cooled by a good tower aircooler.

The CPU in this topic has to be delidded and be watercooled for it to work at its full potential.

I will never bother to go through these lengths for a PC build. Just as I am not into car tuning. For me both are too costly and impractical.
I just let the pistonheads and waterloopheads do their thing.

Delidding and watercooling will raise the performance ceiling of any CPU, AMD or Intel. The only thing this proves is that the Raptor Lake processor can stretch well beyond its usual practical limits. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. These are still excellent performing, ultra high end CPUs even if you run them at the Intel spec.

 

[freeagent]

For the record, we're having 100°F ambient today.

That is almost like standing in someone's mouth.. ugh not looking forward to those days.

 

[dgianstefani]

My D15S is doing OK with the 13900KS even on the harsh Brazilian summer heat. For the record, we're having 100°F ambient today.



Yet at the same time, I reckon Raptor Lake is going to remain quite the unique processor for a while to come. Especially the KS units.

I agree, the last "true" monolithic CPU.

Meteor Lake is already out for laptops if you want to look at how Foveros is working, but it's using an older process than Arrow Lake, and also older architecture, with no RibbonFET or backside power delivery/powerVIA.

Intel claims 'substantial' CPU core speed boost in Meteor Lake test chip 'for just moving wires around'

In the silicon world, the sandwich vs. pizza debate is real.

www.pcgamer.com

There's a frankenstein chip that has "Meteor Lake" design but with powerVIA.

 

[Dr. Dro]

That is almost like standing in someone's mouth.. ugh not looking forward to those days.

Yesterday was worse. I was feeling so overwhelmed that I actually collapsed towards the end of the afternoon. No good...

I agree, the last "true" monolithic CPU.

Meteor Lake is already out for laptops if you want to look at how Foveros is working, but it's using an older process than Arrow Lake, and also older architecture, with no RibbonFET or backside power delivery/powerVIA.

Intel claims 'substantial' CPU core speed boost in Meteor Lake test chip 'for just moving wires around'

In the silicon world, the sandwich vs. pizza debate is real.

www.pcgamer.com

There's a frankenstein chip that has "Meteor Lake" design but with powerVIA.

It'll be great, but even after the whole power via mechanism, the new ribbon FETs and integration improvements, it'll rest that by now Intel 7 is so mature and so scalable that it'll take a good while for those chips to catch up in raw performance IMO.

 

[Ruru]

They should use the EE monicker like Pentium 4/D days as these are just as Emergency Editions like back then.

 

[Outback Bronze]

yeah it will be here tuesday.

Mine got here on Friday,

Well, I've been playing around with mine over the weekend : )

I'm glad you guys posted something about purchasing as I felt like I was just going to get flamed by doing so. Pretty sad really.

Anyways, here is the SP rating of mine if you guys are interested. Happy silicon Lottery guys!

 

[dgianstefani]

Well, I've been playing around with mine over the weekend : )

I'm glad you guys posted something about purchasing as I felt like I was just going to get flamed by doing so. Pretty sad really.

Anyways, here is the SP rating of mine if you guys are interested. Happy silicon Lottery guys!

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Time to add an 'S' to your system specs

 

[Ruru]

Time to add an 'S' to your system specs

Someone with a little sense of humour should put EE instead of S

 

[Outback Bronze]

Time to add an 'S' to your system specs

Yeah, will do eventually, but just been playing with it outback atm on an Apex board.

Planning on doing a new custom loop with case soon but just had a new baby come along so haven't had much time to do much tbh.

I've probably been lucky just to test it atm, and I find it's still too hot here (Perth) to stretch its legs.

 

[Dr. Dro]

yeah it will be here tuesday. Someone modded the bios at OCN to include APO on the z690 dark so I flashed it. I plan on going back to HEDT at the end of the year so this is the last big bang in consumer space for me. I figured I could look at charts and spread sheets and heat output and just be terrified of CPU failure or argue semantics about performance numbers across architecturers that cant be compared.

But then I realized I didnt give a shit,

13900KS Delid

I wasn't happy with my 13900K temps and bought a delid kit w/ IHS copper upgrade. However knowing the KS was going to come out I figured I would just wait and held onto it. My 13900KS came in today, and as this was going to be a CPU swap I decided that instead of installing it twice, we were...

www.techpowerup.com

Then I realized I didnt care what anyone here thought. So I decided to take the next step and ACTUALLY buy one.

Mad respect for buying a 14900KS while owning a 13900KS, I'm very, very interested in your feedback and thoughts

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Well, I've been playing around with mine over the weekend : )

Great!

How does it compare to your regular K, what is the voltage difference at the same frequency?

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

Well, I've been playing around with mine over the weekend : )

I'm glad you guys posted something about purchasing as I felt like I was just going to get flamed by doing so. Pretty sad really.

Anyways, here is the SP rating of mine if you guys are interested. Happy silicon Lottery guys!

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Congrats! I wasn't going to mention that I bought one either because of the usual flak that comes with it, but at least I have some backup now.

I've wanted to get started with it, but I don't think my current board is up to the challenge.

The motherboard just arrived so I'm one step closer.
Glad you were able to spend some time with it this weekend!

 

[Outback Bronze]

Great!

How does it compare to your regular K, what is the voltage difference at the same frequency?

You almost get an extra 200mhz with the same voltage over a standard K but this particular (K) is a rather poor sample so it really all depends on your Silicon.

The beauty about the KS is I can run at the same frequency of the K and use a lot less power and heat as the voltage drops.

For instance, KS @ 5.6ghz is 1.319v Vs K @ 1.378v. I have seen some mad KS where they blow mine out of the water, so I did get an average KS. Thats why I say Happy Silicon Lottery : )

 

[Dr. Dro]

I know this is likely of exceptionally limited usefulness when comparing to ASUS SP - no one else seems to have anything like it, and MSI's certainly is far lower effort, but my 13900KS sample has a "CPU Force 2.5" rating of 229 on the P-cores and 131 on the E-cores. No clue if this is good or not, or what any of that means. MSI's system is nowhere near as detailed as ASUS' and it doesn't give out the full VID tables.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

It's not hot. Mine runs at 82 °C max under a be quiet! Dark Rock 4. Other than that, every CPU is a compromise. With the X3D, you compromise clock speeds, memory clocks, OC, etc... But you also compromise with the 14900KS, there's thermal problems, power consumption, platform and PSU costs, etc. Everything is a compromise one way or another - this is my point!

Be warned...having a nuanced debate about things is maybe a bit beyond the ability of this thread.

So far I've experienced the same level of "take it as given" here as in most bad forums when it comes to "new tech." Intel's latest will be the fastest...until it's AMD, or it's a new 5% faster Intel offering... It's often easy to forget that these halo products are for people with a niche of a niche usage scenario or more money than sense. Meanwhile there's still a huge increase in AMD's market share based on Steam Hardware surveys (6.5% more than October, when compared to February)...and most people on Intel are in the 2.3 to 2.69 GHz range (3.3 to 3.69 GHz for AMD). Sometimes it's rather fun to see that the "bestest thing money can haz" is about as preposterous as that statement is a bastardization of english.


For my two cents...I don't care. A 5600x is still insanely viable to most usage scenarios I have...so Intel releasing a chip that is a great overclocker under liquid nitrogen is like knowing that a platypus can poison you. That's great...but as I'm not exactly in Australia it's something that does nothing for me.

 

[nguyen]

You almost get an extra 200mhz with the same voltage over a standard K but this particular (K) is a rather poor sample so it really all depends on your Silicon.

The beauty about the KS is I can run at the same frequency of the K and use a lot less power and heat as the voltage drops.

For instance, KS @ 5.6ghz is 1.319v Vs K @ 1.378v. I have seen some mad KS where they blow mine out of the water, so I did get an average KS. Thats why I say Happy Silicon Lottery : )


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Can you play some Helldivers 2 and see how much power the KS is using

 

[AusWolf]

Be warned...having a nuanced debate about things is maybe a bit beyond the ability of this thread.

So far I've experienced the same level of "take it as given" here as in most bad forums when it comes to "new tech." Intel's latest will be the fastest...until it's AMD, or it's a new 5% faster Intel offering... It's often easy to forget that these halo products are for people with a niche of a niche usage scenario or more money than sense. Meanwhile there's still a huge increase in AMD's market share based on Steam Hardware surveys (6.5% more than October, when compared to February)...and most people on Intel are in the 2.3 to 2.69 GHz range (3.3 to 3.69 GHz for AMD). Sometimes it's rather fun to see that the "bestest thing money can haz" is about as preposterous as that statement is a bastardization of english.


For my two cents...I don't care. A 5600x is still insanely viable to most usage scenarios I have...so Intel releasing a chip that is a great overclocker under liquid nitrogen is like knowing that a platypus can poison you. That's great...but as I'm not exactly in Australia it's something that does nothing for me.

Sad but true.

TPU has been my chosen forum ever since I registered because of the highly informative, nuanced conversations that happen here. I'm sad to note that these have been happening on a decreasing frequency, and are being replaced by unquestioning admiration of mere products, tools so to speak, if in which you don't partake, or if you try to offer a different perspective, you're labelled as a fanboy of the other camp and are made feel unwelcome. Disclaimer: it's not just about the 14900KS. It may very well be about the 7800X3D or the RTX 4090, which get falsely hyped just as much, for that matter. In my opinion, hype is bad, but accepting it without question is even worse. None of these products come without drawbacks.

I've never seen the PC community so hell bent on chasing that extra 2% performance at all costs. It's strange, considering that we're in the middle of an economic recession, when cost and power efficiency should get the spotlight, one would think. But no.

This is my take on the 14900KS and the like. I'll stop digressing now.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Sad but true.

TPU has been my chosen forum ever since I registered because of the highly informative, nuanced conversations that happen here. I'm sad to note that these have been happening on a decreasing frequency, and are being replaced by unquestioning admiration of mere products, tools so to speak, if in which you don't partake, or if you try to offer a different perspective, you're labelled as a fanboy of the other camp and are made feel unwelcome. Disclaimer: it's not just about the 14900KS. It may very well be about the 7800X3D or the RTX 4090, which get falsely hyped just as much, for that matter. In my opinion, hype is bad, but accepting it without question is even worse. None of these products come without drawbacks.

I've never seen the PC community so hell bent on chasing that extra 2% performance at all costs. It's strange, considering that we're in the middle of an economic recession, when cost and power efficiency should get the spotlight, one would think. But no.

This is my take on the 14900KS and the like. I'll stop digressing now.

I actually agree with you. The beauty of such a processor is that because of its enhanced v/f characteristics IMO, you can actually tame it a lot easier instead of going pedal to the metal, fevgatos had been going on about it and a lot of people actually misunderstood him. I personally undervolt my KS, to a result I consider satisfactory. It's not the best but it doesn't have to be.

Then again, the 7800X3D is going to win the energy efficiency war altogether. For GPUs, I think AD103's the sweet spot, if not AD104. Very power efficient.

 

[AusWolf]

I actually agree with you. The beauty of such a processor is that because of its enhanced v/f characteristics IMO, you can actually tame it a lot easier instead of going pedal to the metal, fevgatos had been going on about it and a lot of people actually misunderstood him. I personally undervolt my KS, to a result I consider satisfactory. It's not the best but it doesn't have to be.

Then again, the 7800X3D is going to win the energy efficiency war altogether. For GPUs, I think AD103's the sweet spot, if not AD104. Very power efficient.

If you're happy doing that, then that's your use case and it's fine. As long as you don't run around shouting "this is the fastest bloody thing in the whole galaxy, mwahaha". Liking your hardware and the things you do with it is the beauty of PCs. Wanting others to be on the same opinion, or to accept your version of the story as hard fact, or accusing them of being fanboys of the other camp if they don't comply is what I can't wrap my head around.

As for the 7800X3D, sure, it wins by miles on the gaming efficiency, but loses big time on the W/°C chart. It sips power, but runs hot. Not to mention, it doesn't work with some AIO/coldplate designs for some unknown reason. Mine struggled like heck under a 280 mm Silent Loop 2, but runs fine with a Dark Rock 4. Like I said, every hardware has drawbacks. Just because I don't acknowledge X product (the 14900KS in this instance) as the pinnacle of PC master race evolution, it doesn't mean that I'm advocating the opposite brand. The world isn't black and white.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

When I wrote "the fastest", I meant single thread performance - this is the fundamental measure of the CPU performance. In multithread you can add performance simply by adding cores, you can make the CPU as fat as you wish...

If I take a single thread Cinebench performance as an example from the review on this site, 14900KS does 2410 points and the best AMD CPU 2037 points. That is almost 20% difference.

BTW even the cheap 14600K does 2072 points.

 

[freeagent]

This cpu is not for the masses lol.. you can buy it sure and it will work, but this is an hardware enthusiast part, not a gaming/cinebench part

 

[AusWolf]

When I wrote "the fastest", I meant single thread performance - this is the fundamental measure of the CPU performance. In multithread you can add performance simply by adding cores, you can make the CPU as fat as you wish...

If I take a single thread Cinebench performance as an example from the review on this site, 14900KS does 2410 points and the best AMD CPU 2037 points. That is almost 20% difference.

BTW even the cheap 14600K does 2072 points.

Yes, it's the fastest single-core productivity / Cinebench CPU. I wouldn't say it's the fastest in single-threaded (or most) games.

I give credit where credit is due. But the word "fastest" without any specification implies that it's the fastest in everything, which isn't true - I don't even think it has ever been true about any CPU.

You could say I'm arguing about semantics, but semantics are important when words can be used to fuel disagreement up to the point where people get accused of being a Brand X fanboy for contesting a claim.