Slow upgrade of an old gaming PC

[Rafael.luc]

The author of the topic wrote an upgrade for more performance with used parts, obviously the budget is limited.

An AM4 kit fits well, those who are buying second-hand parts are not concerned about future upgrades.

 

[AusWolf]

You are still assuming he'll have to go sAM5 no matter what, and that's wrong thinking. If his Haswell rig was good enough up until 2024, then I'm pretty sure a decent AM4 rig will be relevant even as AM5 reaches its EoL (which is only ~3 years away btw). Basically after 2027 we'll have the same dilemma with AM6 or whatever next Intel socket will be.

What I'm assuming is that when AM5 reaches EoL, and you need an upgrade, you'll still be able to buy a last gen used AM5 CPU and plod on for another 5 or so years, whereas with an AM4 system, you'll have to swap either to an AM5 or whatever is next system which will be more expensive.

 

[Chrispy_]

What I'm assuming is that when AM5 reaches EoL, and you need an upgrade, you'll still be able to buy a last gen used AM5 CPU and plod on for another 5 or so years, whereas with an AM4 system, you'll have to swap either to an AM5 or whatever is next system which will be more expensive.

AM5 solves the upcoming hypothetical problem that's five years away but doesn't solve the current-day, non-hypothetical problem of budget constraints right now.

Future-proofing is a luxury you invest in if it's within your budget.

 

[Vincero]

The author of the topic wrote an upgrade for more performance with used parts, obviously the budget is limited.

An AM4 kit fits well, those who are buying second-hand parts are not concerned about future upgrades.

The OP for the topic has disappeared and not answered a question about budget which would have put everyone on same page.
Not gonna keep discussing / arguing the points until there is some more clarity.

At this point, consensus is platform (ie. CPU+Mobo) upgrade first, GPU upgrade later.... unless something dictates a specific need (like "I really wanna pay 'XXXXXXX').

 

[Laurijan]

I think what you need is not an upgrade but all new parts. There is really nothing in the part you posted that is salvegable. Even the SSD with 250gb is too small (even 1TB im running low now). Dont know if you have a good PSU you can continue using but replace the rest. AM4 system with DDR4 and a RTX 3000 series card would still be ok for most parts and if you can get them from someone reliable in used but good condition. If budget is not too tight just buy AM5 system new.

 

[AusWolf]

AM5 solves the upcoming hypothetical problem that's five years away but doesn't solve the current-day, non-hypothetical problem of budget constraints right now.

Future-proofing is a luxury you invest in if it's within your budget.

I would still try to save up for it. The difference isn't so great, imo. It was during the AM5/DDR5 launch, but not anymore.

I just checked: you can get a combo of a fairly decent B550 board, 32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz and a R7 5700 at Scan UK for £320.
Alternatively, you can get a combo of a fairly decent A620 board, 32 GB DDR5 6000 MHz and a R5 7600 for £400.

If you bump the first rig up to a 5700X3D, the price of the two systems will be the same, and you'll get relatively the same performance in gaming. At no extra cost, a little future-proofing is worth it, right?

 

[Rafael.luc]

What I'm assuming is that when AM5 reaches EoL, and you need an upgrade, you'll still be able to buy a last gen used AM5 CPU and plod on for another 5 or so years, whereas with an AM4 system, you'll have to swap either to an AM5 or whatever is next system which will be more expensive.

I understand your method, but it fits into the application in companies with many PCs, where PC availability is required, replacement and repair services are included in the budget.

An average home user with a small budget will have to wait for the wave of launches and high prices to pass before purchasing a good-performance PC. Ex: Ryzen 5600x in 2020 at its launch cost $299, today (2024) you can find it for less than $90.00.

If a user is in this group, it is better not to fall in love with your motherboard, you will have to change platforms in some cases. I would not bet my money on new technologies that have not yet been widely adopted. Does anyone remember technologies like CrossFire, SLI, Fireware?

 

[AusWolf]

I understand your method, but it fits into the application in companies with many PCs, where PC availability is required, replacement and repair services are included in the budget.

An average home user with a small budget will have to wait for the wave of launches and high prices to pass before purchasing a good-performance PC. Ex: Ryzen 5600x in 2020 at its launch cost $299, today (2024) you can find it for less than $90.00.

If a user is in this group, it is better not to fall in love with your motherboard, you will have to change platforms in some cases. I would not bet my money on new technologies that have not yet been widely adopted. Does anyone remember technologies like CrossFire, SLI, Fireware?

That's why we have hardware enthusiast forums like this one, where other people can share their experiences, like I can share mine that AM5 as of today, is rock solid. There's no reason to be afraid of it.

As for the price, I said what I said: you can save now and spend a lot more later, or spend a little more now, and save massively later. Saving at all costs is not always the best course of action.

 

[Chrispy_]

I just checked: you can get a combo of a fairly decent B550 board, 32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz and a R7 5700 at Scan UK for £320.
Alternatively, you can get a combo of a fairly decent A620 board, 32 GB DDR5 6000 MHz and a R5 7600 for £400.

Nobody should be buying AM4 new any more. I linked AM4 full CPU/RAM/Mobo combos earlier for as little as £90, shipped. A used 5700X3D/5800X3D can be dropped into that for another sub-100 price down the road if and and when OP has a graphics card that can actually benefit from it.

£90 shipped, vs £400 before shipping?

I don't disagree with you about AM5 being a good investment, but as I mentioned earlier, investing in the future is a luxury for people with the budget to spare. £400 is a lot of money when £90 gets you an AM4 platform today, another £90 gets you an AM5 platform in 2028, and in 2032 another £90 gets you an AM6 platform with a 24-core Ryzen 5 11600X3D and a cheap, second-hand RTX 7070.

 

[AusWolf]

Nobody should be buying AM4 new any more. I linked AM4 full CPU/RAM/Mobo combos earlier for as little as £90, shipped. A used 5700X3D/5800X3D can be dropped into that for another sub-100 price down the road if and and when OP has a graphics card that can actually benefit from it.

£90 shipped, vs £400 before shipping?

I don't disagree with you about AM5 being a good investment, but as I mentioned earlier, investing in the future is a luxury for people with the budget to spare. £400 is a lot of money when £90 gets you an AM4 platform today, another £90 gets you an AM5 platform in 2028, and in 2032 another £90 gets you an AM6 platform with a 24-core Ryzen 5 11600X3D and a cheap, second-hand RTX 7070.

If you can really get that platform for 90 quid shipped, then that's cool. I just don't take used prices into consideration when recommending anything, because they fluctuate like hell, not to mention having no warranty, which is another luxury if you're on a tight budget.

 

[Rafael.luc]

If you can really get that platform for 90 quid shipped, then that's cool. I just don't take used prices into consideration when recommending anything, because they fluctuate like hell, not to mention having no warranty, which is another luxury if you're on a tight budget.

It's not easy to actually buy used.

The website you buy used must have a return policy in case of defect. The commission + shipping may make the final price unfeasible for used hardware (at least =< 75% of the price of new hardware).

Motherboard may be more viable to buy new, along with other parts in a single shipping fee

ASUS Prime B450M-A II AMD AM4

Processor used is easier, just don't have bent pins in the case of AMD 4

 

[Chrispy_]

It's not easy to actually buy used.

The website you buy used must have a return policy in case of defect. The commission + shipping may make the final price unfeasible for used hardware (at least =< 75% of the price of new hardware)

Yeah, not every country has functioning used markets for PC parts. @Dr. Dro has convinced me that the used market sucks in Brazil, for sure.

If you can really get that platform for 90 quid shipped, then that's cool. I just don't take used prices into consideration when recommending anything, because they fluctuate like hell, not to mention having no warranty, which is another luxury if you're on a tight budget.

That screenshot earlier was the page of results after choosing "sold/completed items" so it's the actual price people paid for those things, and I also filtered out any "for parts or not working". If you want a used Rzyzen5 3600 + B450 + RAM in a hurry, with fast shipping and a buy-it-now listing you'll probably need £120. If you are prepared to bid, wait, and stick to your budget then £85 is feasible for sure.

With ebay in particular, used items HAVE to work. If you buy something used that claims to be working, you can file a dispute for "not as described" which you automatically get your money back when it's returned to the seller (at their cost) - no questions asked. I've been on the other side of the fence for that a few times and even if the buyer simply doesn't want it and you get a fully-working part back, ebay always favours the buyer even if you can prove that the part is 100% working as described. I've learned that it's simply not worth trying to fight and accept that I've just lost the listing fees, and shipping both ways; It's an unfortunate and unfair cost of using ebay - but one that works in your favour if you're the buyer rather than the seller.

As for warranty, I don't think people upgrading from 11-year-old platforms are particularly bothered by that. Their current system has been without warranty for the last 10 years

 

[Dr. Dro]

Really, in OP's shoes, the best thing is to look for a refurbished Dell Optiplex with a 10th Gen CPU. $200 or so, they'll cover everything from case to cooling to power supply. All you need to do is add a GPU later. It won't be a state of the art beast, but when all costs are considered, it's feasible and still more affordable than going a DIY route if you are on an exceptionally strict budget

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Hi guys,

I've been looking into having some fun with upgrading my old PC, I wonder how to approach this topic and what would be the best start, I'm thining about cheap second hand parts that I will be using to replace current ones over time

Since no asked the OP this question, I will.
what games are you playing that are starting to seem lack luster now?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Since no asked the OP this question, I will.
what games are you playing that are starting to seem lack luster now?

On that system if you're playing anything made in the past 6-7 years or so, you can't run it well

 

[Vincero]

On that system if you're playing anything made in the past 6-7 years or so, you can't run it well

Oh I don't know... I have a 'work' PC which I use for 'seperation of church and state', running an i7-3770 and a GTX 980 and put in a decent showing in Cyberpunk 2077 when I was waiting for upgrade parts for my main box and needed to scratch that gaming itch.

Solid 50+fps (yeah needed FSR, not getting around that).
But anything that really pushed new features like RT, even with a capable GPU would not do well.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Oh I don't know... I have a 'work' PC which I use for 'seperation of church and state', running an i7-3770 and a GTX 980 and put in a decent showing in Cyberpunk 2077 when I was waiting for upgrade parts for my main box and needed to scratch that gaming itch.

Solid 50+fps (yeah needed FSR, not getting around that).
But anything that really pushed new features like RT, even with a capable GPU would not do well.

The 4670K has less cache and no hyperthreading... 3770 should be ahead of it perf-wise. 980 is also obviously better than the 970, so you get that idea - even your old old work PC is better

 

[DirtyDingusMcgee]

There are all kinds of options for OP. I like tricking out older systems.

Storage is cheap right now, so faster ssd's are a good option. 4 or 6 sata ssd in raid 0 is fun, and 256gb ones can be had new for like 20 or 30
dollars.

4000 series i7 can be had for 60 bucks or less, and it would be a noticeable bump up in perf.

Do you have a good power supply? If so, I have seen used/refurb rtx 2070, gtx 1070ti, rx590, gtx 980, etc
going for 200 or less. Heck, you could get a couple of rx400/500 cards and run crossfire (again, make sure your psu is up to it), since your motherboard supports it.

32gb of good ddr3 2400 can be had for about
110 dollars (and that's new, used memory can be had super cheap). If you are going to go high frequency on the ram (like 2133, 2400, 2666, or higher) maybe look for some used that matches up with something on the motherboard QVL.

You could squeeze a decent bit more performance out of 2 or 3 hundred dollars. Just be sure you consider power and cooling needs. There is
always OC'ing too......easier to do on those older rigs. Just up to you on how/when you want to do it. Storage and cpu could be done very cheaply and quickly. Shop around on a good deal for gpu and memory.

 

[AleXXX666]

Don't need to upgrade to same CPU socket it's not worth it, and don't buy RX5x0 series they mostly ex-mining GPU that's close to death or fitted with modded VBIOS.

I rather go straight to AM5 and use the iGPU, or use GTX 970 for a time being, depending on what games you gonna play.

DON'T BUY 8000G RYZENS! It's a CRAP! 7000 series all the way! I bought 8500G and got faulty one, which freezes and can't make RAM any faster than 5200! BS! I won't reco any 8000G series to somebody!!!

In my opinion, the first step should be the platform. We're too close to new GPU releases, so it might be worth waiting to see what they will offer. Also, your CPU would be bottlenecking the new card, and by the time you upgrade it, the new-new cards will already be out, bringing current gen prices down.

So basically, I'd get a new Ryzen 5 or Core i5 with DDR5 and upgrade the GPU later when the time is right. If you go with AMD, I'd recommend AM5 for future upgradability.

what we "close" are? even more higher cost gpu with some "AI" crap which isn't useful in games?

The 4670K has less cache and no hyperthreading... 3770 should be ahead of it perf-wise. 980 is also obviously better than the 970, so you get that idea - even your old old work PC is better

Haswell is massive perf increase over dinosaur 3rd gen, lmfao.

Nobody should be buying AM4 new any more. I linked AM4 full CPU/RAM/Mobo combos earlier for as little as £90, shipped. A used 5700X3D/5800X3D can be dropped into that for another sub-100 price down the road if and and when OP has a graphics card that can actually benefit from it.

£90 shipped, vs £400 before shipping?

I don't disagree with you about AM5 being a good investment, but as I mentioned earlier, investing in the future is a luxury for people with the budget to spare. £400 is a lot of money when £90 gets you an AM4 platform today, another £90 gets you an AM5 platform in 2028, and in 2032 another £90 gets you an AM6 platform with a 24-core Ryzen 5 11600X3D and a cheap, second-hand RTX 7070.

combos yes, but some cheap new MB with WARRANTY is way better than used "good" mb which could have some hidden faults which come up later...
cpu and ram yes, but if you find good deals and really working and good condition.

I would still try to save up for it. The difference isn't so great, imo. It was during the AM5/DDR5 launch, but not anymore.

I just checked: you can get a combo of a fairly decent B550 board, 32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz and a R7 5700 at Scan UK for £320.
Alternatively, you can get a combo of a fairly decent A620 board, 32 GB DDR5 6000 MHz and a R5 7600 for £400.

If you bump the first rig up to a 5700X3D, the price of the two systems will be the same, and you'll get relatively the same performance in gaming. At no extra cost, a little future-proofing is worth it, right?

and you can get 7500F and 5600 RAM cheaper, so...

 

[Hyderz]

Where is op?

 

[64K]

Where is op?

Hasn't been back in 5 days.

 

[Vincero]

Haswell is massive perf increase over dinosaur 3rd gen, lmfao.

No, it really wasn't - not sure how a single gen difference between 10+ year old processors makes one a dinosaur - what Haswell did do was push the perf/watt envelope onwards as it was designed to take advantage of the 22nm node better than the Ivy Bridge shrink down from Sandy Bridge.
Equivalent products got a speed bump and potentially a better power usage / boost window, but Haswell actually was a release that was a lot like the Ryzen 7000 vs 9000 - except that the beneficiary was mobile users instead of those doing AVX calcs (although yes, Haswell did get AVX2).

This chart pretty much sums up the IPC leaps from Sandy Bridge > Ivy Bridge > Haswell > Skylake (conveniently all sharing a similar base clock speed, but of course all having different single-core boost speeds; SB: 3.8GHz, IB: 3.9GHz, HW: 3.9GHz, SL: 4.0GHz). When you factor the different single-core boost clocks in, that doesn't make Skylake look quite as good.

Definitely not better enough for the i5-4670K to overcome the i7-3770 unless you are specifically using overclocking:

Intel i7-3770 vs i5-4670K [cpubenchmark.net] by PassMark Software

 

[Chrispy_]

No, it really wasn't - not sure how a single gen difference between 10+ year old processors makes one a dinosaur - what Haswell did do was push the perf/watt envelope onwards as it was designed to take advantage of the 22nm node better than the Ivy Bridge shrink down from Sandy Bridge.

Exactly. Ryzen broke Intel's almost 7-year long era of stagnation.

I remember swapping out i7-2600K in them for Skylake 6700K systems five years later and being unable to see or feel any significant difference. IPC gains were single-digits per generation and core counts remained unchanged for almost 7 years when Coffee Lake was intel's answer to Ryzen. Gaming was predominantly GPU-limted in that era and the CPU made minimal difference. Productivity improved a bit, but we're talking about 3-minute renders still taking over 2 minutes, and 10-second operations now taking 7-8 seconds. Measurable, yes. Significant? Definitely not.

This isn't a fact that should need to be disputed - the overwhelming majority of reviews on the web covering Ryzen's launch still mention the significance of finally breaking Intel's stagnation with a viable competitor.

 

[Dr. Dro]

There are all kinds of options for OP. I like tricking out older systems.

Storage is cheap right now, so faster ssd's are a good option. 4 or 6 sata ssd in raid 0 is fun, and 256gb ones can be had new for like 20 or 30
dollars.

4000 series i7 can be had for 60 bucks or less, and it would be a noticeable bump up in perf.

Do you have a good power supply? If so, I have seen used/refurb rtx 2070, gtx 1070ti, rx590, gtx 980, etc
going for 200 or less. Heck, you could get a couple of rx400/500 cards and run crossfire (again, make sure your psu is up to it), since your motherboard supports it.

32gb of good ddr3 2400 can be had for about
110 dollars (and that's new, used memory can be had super cheap). If you are going to go high frequency on the ram (like 2133, 2400, 2666, or higher) maybe look for some used that matches up with something on the motherboard QVL.

You could squeeze a decent bit more performance out of 2 or 3 hundred dollars. Just be sure you consider power and cooling needs. There is
always OC'ing too......easier to do on those older rigs. Just up to you on how/when you want to do it. Storage and cpu could be done very cheaply and quickly. Shop around on a good deal for gpu and memory.

Even if you buy a i7-4790K plus a 32 GB DDR3-2133+ kit this system is still eleven years old and will perform accordingly... the WILD and I mean WILD variance in your GPU suggestions (RX 590 - 98% likelihood of an used card being mining trash, GTX 980 - equally ancient and about the same crap OP already has - 1070 Ti - about as far as this system will take, minor bottleneck involved - 2070 - simply a waste of money for a 4790K system) just tells me you are shooting blindly here.

Anyway OP is gone and hasn't come back, I think they probably realized they don't have the funds to commit to any path right now. Good on them.

 

[Frick]

I do wonder how the Broadwells perform these days... But in some parts of the world (like mine) they are very rare.