Next Gen GPU's will be even more expensive

[oxrufiioxo]

I'm quite sure you are not part of the crowd that enabled Nvidia dominating the market at all, you bought like what, 1 Nvidia GPU in the past 2.5 years? And also an Radeon too.

No point getting too work up over some toys anyways, like buying LEGO and then listen to people complain about why it's bad for LEGO smaller competitors

4090, 4070, 6700XT yeah def the people buying 1000s of cards..... But I did own like 8 high end pascal cards and a bunch of 900 series cards. They def won't miss my 1500-3k I spend on their cards per generation lol.


Keep in mind I may not like pricing in 2025 but Nvidia should charge whatever people are willing to pay.

 

[Sir Beregond]

In 8 years of RT "revolution" we barely have several good'ish games and even in them RT adds significant artefacts and/or blur and still tanks performance.

Second even in CP 2077 with the latest expansion and patches, RT only looks different in most scenarios. Its not really clear which image is clearly more appealing and better, it usually comes down to individual preference. Though I'd give it to you that in very high RT games every surface looks like a mirror or a wet floor, so there is quite a bit of bling and neons and colors. If you are into that UNREALISTIC look you'd love RT, if you are into realistic or developer artistry you'd hate RT.

That and you'd think after 8 years, the mainstream segment would have fantastic RT performance at an affordable price. Instead the mid-range is now $800 for some reason and everything below that is getting worse or stagnating. What were called 4K cards 10 years ago weren't $2k cards.

Also game devs have gotten lazy and good luck with just running faster if you don't want RT. Looking crappier as we go.

 

[nguyen]

4090, 4070, 6700XT yeah def the people buying 1000s of cards..... But I did own like 8 high end pascal cards and a bunch of 900 series cards. They def won't miss my 1500-3k I spend on their cards per generation lol.

Keep in mind I may not like pricing in 2025 but Nvidia should charge whatever people are willing to pay.

Nah Nvidia definitely cares alright, since they are greedy and all they just keep inventing new techs (that other companies keep copying).

Yeah i get that prices will go up, but so does price to performance (may be not as much as any previous gen). People can buy 5060 Ti and get the same feature set and efficiency improvement as 5090, idk why anyone feel forced to bear the price of 5090 and then complain (except for AMD fanboys who will never buy stuff from other company of course)

 

[AusWolf]

Nvidia does provide an executable that you can just double click from their website (although that's not the ideal way), but as I said, I understand your point: not having to do anything at all is way easier, no matter what you were used to.

Do they now? The last time I checked, they provided a package file that you had to manually install with a package manager - a real nightmare for people used to clicking on an exe (which again, doesn't exist on Linux).

 

[Hecate91]

That and you'd think after 8 years, the mainstream segment would have fantastic RT performance at an affordable price. Instead the mid-range is now $800 for some reason and everything below that is getting worse or stagnating. What were called 4K cards 10 years ago weren't $2k cards.

Also game devs have gotten lazy and good luck with just running faster if you don't want RT. Looking crappier as we go.

Exactly, its crazy more people haven't been yelling for more progression, but all we get instead are shiny reflections in games, which most purchasing in the $300-500 range don't care about.
I expect a 1440P card at $450 which doesn't require games to look crappy with upscaling or fake frames, but no people say I'm expecting too much. Things are definitely getting worse when the $800 midrange keeps getting cut down to up sell people on the $1000+ card.

Interesting perspective that typical nvidia user should listen to. Especially now when new expensive RTX 50 series drops.

I stumbled on this video quite accidentally and agree a lot.

I've never heard of them, but I like the video, thanks for the link. He's right, but nvidia users only want to listen to the confirmation bias from their favorite influencers telling them to buy the new card.

 

[AusWolf]

I'm quite sure you are not part of the crowd that enabled Nvidia dominating the market at all, you bought like what, 1 Nvidia GPU in the past 2.5 years? And also an Radeon too.

No point getting too work up over some toys anyways, like buying LEGO and then listen to people complain about why it's bad for LEGO smaller competitors

Baby steps. Every card sold contributes to the maker's success. You don't need to buy hundreds of them. 99% of people only buy one every few generations.

 

[Hecate91]

Nah Nvidia definitely cares alright, since they are greedy and all they just keep inventing new techs (that other companies keep copying).

Oh yes Nvidia cares so much they make their technologies proprietary, and then require their users to buy the latest card in order to use the latest features.
I find it interesting the Nvidia fans complain when the competition doesn't have a feature, then complain they're "copying" when a similar feature is added. So Nvidia fans will complain no matter what AMD does.

Yeah i get that prices will go up, but so does price to performance (may be not as much as any previous gen).

Performance has not scaled with the price since at least the RTX 30 series.

People can buy 5060 Ti and get the same feature set and efficiency improvement as 5090, idk why anyone feel forced to bear the price of 5090 and then complain

And the 5060Ti will probably be nerfed down significantly so those features won't be usable at anything more than 1080p, but no people shouldn't complain when its obvious stagnation yet the prices keep going up.

(except for AMD fanboys who will never buy stuff from other company of course)

Ironic you say that, lol.

 

[AusWolf]

@AusWolf
not really, or we wouldn't have virtually all european car makers offer a product similar to the VW GTI.
and they only really sell, because the have at least one thing, that they are "better" at, than the Golf (suspension/power/top speed/looks/features/price),
and the sales numbers for the next "smaller" model show that concentrating on (just) the mass market, isnt a good idea.
you think we would have AMD server chips, if AMD wanted midrange only?

The Golf GTI is still a mass-produced consumer car, just slightly faster and slightly more expensive. If you want to use a car example, it's like saying that VW is doing poorly because it doesn't cater to the $1M+ supercar market, which is silly, imo.

@evernessince
except:
groceries = need
gpu = want

dont have to buy the latter.

So just because gaming GPUs aren't necessary for our survival, they should become exponentially more expensive and we should have no opinion on it, like sheep? One can't have a hobby anymore these days?

 

[Palladium]

So just because gaming GPUs aren't necessary for our survival, they should become exponentially more expensive and we should have no opinion on it, like sheep? One can't have a hobby anymore these days?

It's pretty funny situation now when GPUs prices are going stratospheric but big budget game devs are heading off a cliff or even having trouble keeping their lights on.

Even Sony/MS who are really just OEMs for AMD with a online store paint are betting their entire continued existence of their consoles solely on GTA6.

 

[Bomby569]

No, you don't buy Nvidia. AMD's cards could do RTX 4080 Super, but the price will be 40% of that RTX 4080 Super.
Look at the prices, not the performance.

If AMD prices a similar performing card (i'm even excluding RT and DLSS here) for 40% at launch most people will buy them over Nvidia. Forget naming, a similar performing card.
But as that will never happen and you're just simping for AMD and ignoring reality no one will buy them as usually. They will wait for AMD to announce their prices, taking 50 to 100usd. Want to bet?

 

[xnery.007]

AMD almost always prices their cards very close to Nvidia at launch. Conversely, when their cards start becoming truly price-competitive is when AMD puts them on sale. Then you can get some pretty good cards with excellent price/performance, even considering the weaker support for FSR and other areas where Nvidia dominates. I don't expect good pricing from AMD at launch; they're known to discount their products within a month if sales are bad (looking at you, 9600X and other products).

Nvidia barely discounted anything in the last generation, maintaining a pricing strategy similar to Apple. The only discounts came from AIB partners, cutting into their own profits, and even that wasn't common.

 

[leonavis]

What I dislike in RT is the performance impact on both Nvidia and AMD. It's not worth it. I also don't think it looks that great. In most games, I can't see much difference, if any. If Nvidia and AMD can improve performance enough for developers to make really good use of the tech, I'll welcome it. But as long as a little sheen in a puddle tanks my FPS from 80 to 25, I'll say it's a gimmick.

I'm not against DLSS/FSR either. People with lower end GPUs, or those with 4K screens can make good use of it. I'm only against the hype, and the statement that it's outright better than native, which is highly dependent on what you consider native.

Not untrue. But what I did like was the shadow implementation in Witcher3. It didn't hit my performance too hard, it runs in Linux and the shadows sure look more realistic.

Then again, enabling full RT in Black Myth just broke it. Unless with full FSR and FG, in which case everything looks like shit - but the water looks great...

 

[Bomby569]

r cards very close to Nvidia at launch. Conversely, when their cards start becoming truly price-competitive is when AMD puts them on sale. Then you can get some pretty good cards with excellent price/performance, even considering the weaker support for FSR and other areas where Nvidia dominates. I don't expect good pricing from AMD at launch; they're known to discount their products within a month if sales are bad (looking at you, 9600X and other products).

Nvidia barely discounted anything in the last generation, maintaining a pricing strategy similar to Apple. The only discounts came from AIB partners, cutting into their own profits, and even that wasn't common.

people live in their own reality that as nothing to do with the real world, these are the charts for rx 7800 and rtx 4070. Price fluctuates between 700 and 400usd for the 7800 and 900 and 400usd for the 4070.
In Oct 2023 you could buy them around the same price: 500usd, things didn't change much from there. Not sure what the hell you are talking about

 

[Vayra86]

I don't know where you got that from. As far as I recall, the 6700 and 6800 series were relatively popular (of course not as popular as the 3070 or 3080, but that's not my point). The 7700 and 7800 XT aren't even popular in the AMD crowd, most probably for the above reason (bad naming).

Relatively. Popular. Exactly.

Relative to AMD's overall market share I guess. So that's 1 AMD GPU to 9 Nvidia GPUs, ranging from a 4060 to a 4070ti, just about, being sold on the segment of the 6700~7800XT. It doesn't really matter whether card X or Y is or was half a tier higher or lower than whatever it was before... totally irrelevant. People read reviews, compare bar charts, and see number from team green higher at price somewhat higher, but far more importantly, GPU from team green doing far better in RT, better in power consumption, and apparently also better in upscaling. Had frame generation when AMD was still talking a lot about the fantastic open approach of a non-released FSR 3. This is the same AMD that is now going to 'focus on the midrange' and will release yet another 7800XT on steroids. But this time! This time it will be different!!

Should we continue? This is not a problem that relates to whatever AMD names or prices a GPU at, its far more, and it comes down to AMD's eternal problems. They aren't consumer problems.

I don't understand all the dislike for RT either. Looks great. Same with all the talk of DLSS.. you don't have to use it.. its just there if you want. Like how I can use the AMD version.. but I don't.

People will buy what they buy, on both sides. Does it really matter?

It doesn't bother me that people use AMD GPUs, but it bothers some people that I use an Nvidia GPU?

That's crazy man.

I don't even have a leather jacket.

The problem with these technologies is that they clearly take developer attention away from the things that make games play better, and focuses it on making them look better. Every dollar going into graphics isn't going into good gameplay, and it shows. Developers are now spending time on graphics features rather than actual design, more off the shelf stuff is used while hand-crafted stuff is lost to us. And its really the manual work that makes games shine, not a few more post effects.

To me this was never an Nvidia related issue, its just that Nvidia is pioneering it so hard and so much at the expense of a lot of other things. Cyberpunk is a great example. The sickening amount of time wasted on graphical updates to that game, compared to the deplorable state of the game's systems and mechanics is the absolute perfect example of why this push isn't helping us. Yes, beautiful pics. Sure. But that's not what I play games for, honestly. And also, relating to the topic subject: RT makes GPUs more expensive; but for all the wrong reasons. At its core, RT Is just an excuse to push datacenter leftovers to us.

 

[Waldorf]

to be clear, so ppl don't assume things i never said:
i still use a 2080S, not because i dont want(ed) to upgrade or didnt have the funds to do so, but are not willing to spend my money on what i could get in the last couple years,
incl AMD.

@evernessince

i wasnt talking about monopolies (thats a problem with regulations/laws in a country) or anything else, i simply stated the facts regarding the meaning of want/need.
we are in an end user forum, no hospital goes out and buys a (single) 5 fan/rgb/gaming gpu on a retail store, same way we dont say we want lower M2 gen5 costs,
so its more affordable to put in the next nasa/esa probe..


@evernessince
@AusWolf

hobbies arent required for me to "make it" to the next day, like the "need" we buy (food etc), and billions on this planet not gaming, show its not a need.

its fine to have a hobby, fine if its gaming, and i dont have a problem when ppl arent happy with pricing/tiers etc, but again, the user has the choice of buying or not.
my problem is with ppl applying the "but it should be affordable" only to pc hw/gaming, but never to any other "big ticket" aspect of life, like buying a car/house etc.

have "you" argued with a potential landlord that you cant rent a 3 bedroom penthouse for 500/month, or that the +500 HP 2-door from a german brand costs twice what asian brands charge for a 4-door?
so i should be able to afford golf/flying/car racing (insert anything not needed to survive), because its a hobby "i like"? so how is gaming any different?

and if the 5080 was 399$, you would very likely not even be complaining about pricing, yet it would still be way too much cost,for billions on this planet,
e.g. you would be fine with that cost, only because it fits in "your" budget.

we have a certain amount of money to cover our needs, if something is left, we can spend it on what we want incl hobbies, but that has ZERO to do with companies selling a product (at a certain price),
just so we can afford it.

@AusWolf
and yes, vw does that, it started with they veyron.

@3valatzy
game over for Nv?
lol, just lol.

Nv would be fine, not selling single end user "gaming" gpu in 2025.
are you uninformed or just ignorant to the facts?

not even talking about that you think a single metric is relevant for a purchase (perf). e.g. would you buy and drive a neon pink car, if it was faster than one in the color you prefer/like
right.
ppl buy certain things/brands for more than a single reason, and just because their choice doesnt align with yours, doesnt mean it is a "stupid" (choice).

 

[Vayra86]

people live in their own reality that as nothing to do with the real world, these are the charts for rx 7800 and rtx 4070. Price fluctuates between 700 and 400usd for the 7800 and 900 and 400usd for the 4070.
In Oct 2023 you could buy them around the same price: 500usd, things didn't change much from there. Not sure what the hell you are talking about

View attachment 377551View attachment 377552

Well... the x70 line is a good 70-100 bucks higher all the time, though. You 'could get' sure but its clear the x70 is priced higher overall. But nobody is denying that, what that chart really says is that Nvidia clearly sells better, and gets a higher margin off their GPUs, which matches their better featureset. This is the story of gaming GPUs since what, 2005?

 

[Bomby569]

Well... the x70 line is a good 70-100 bucks higher all the time, though. You 'could get' sure but its clear the x70 is priced higher overall. But nobody is denying that, what that chart really says is that Nvidia clearly sells better, and gets a higher margin off their GPUs, which matches their better featureset. This is the story of gaming GPUs since what, 2005?

I'm not denying reality, nvidia higher and average prices, but i was just replying to the "discounted/truly price competitive" part the OP mentioned, i don't see it, can you see it?
If you shop for discount/truly competitive prices i see them almost on par.

Nvidia does higher prices because they can, better features and drivers. But can AMD do the same pricing for the discount, for the price sensitive crowd, less tech savvy? maybe that's the problem right there.

 

[AusWolf]

@evernessince
@AusWolf

hobbies arent required for me to "make it" to the next day, like the "need" we buy (food etc), and billions on this planet not gaming, show its not a need.

its fine to have a hobby, fine if its gaming, and i dont have a problem when ppl arent happy with pricing/tiers etc, but again, the user has the choice of buying or not.
my problem is with ppl applying the "but it should be affordable" only to pc hw/gaming, but never to any other "big ticket" aspect of life, like buying a car/house etc.

have "you" argued with a potential landlord that you cant rent a 3 bedroom penthouse for 500/month, or that the +500 HP 2-door from a german brand costs twice what asian brands charge for a 4-door?
so i should be able to afford golf/flying/car racing (insert anything not needed to survive), because its a hobby "i like"? so how is gaming any different?

and if the 5080 was 399$, you would very likely not even be complaining about pricing, yet it would still be way too much cost,for billions on this planet,
e.g. you would be fine with that cost, only because it fits in "your" budget.

we have a certain amount of money to cover our needs, if something is left, we can spend it on what we want incl hobbies, but that has ZERO to do with companies selling a product (at a certain price),
just so we can afford it.

1. Just because a hobby isn't needed for survival it doesn't mean that it should be expensive, or that we should accept that it's expensive without a second thought.

2. PC gaming used to be way more affordable, so I think the complaints are somewhat legitimate. Only somewhat because our wants have gone up, too. We're used to be fine with 30 FPS at 640x480 in Doom. We're not anymore.

3. Yes, I'm upset about real estate costs as I'll probably never own a home, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. It's whatabautism.

@AusWolf
and yes, vw does that, it started with they veyron.

Ah, so VW bought Bugatti? I didn't know. Still, it's not their own design.

 

[Vayra86]

I'm not denying reality, nvidia higher and average prices, but i was just replying to the "discounted/truly price competitive" part the OP mentioned, i don't see it, can you see it?
If you shop for discount/truly competitive prices i see them almost on par.

Nvidia does higher prices because they can, better features and drivers. But can AMD do the same pricing for the discount, for the price sensitive crowd, less tech savvy? maybe that's the problem right there.

Yeah we're actually then saying the same thing just approaching it differently; AMD can't price like Nvidia and they shouldn't, its clear they're followers and not leaders, and that's the core of the issue. They don't lead on their own strategy, they're in wait and see mode and it never convinces anyone. Its not even about tech savvy or not I think, AMD just has no real story. Nvidia does. Its more than marketing that story, its about writing it, too. The on-and-off GPU dedication AMD shows us is a marketshare killer, I'm convinced of that. Tech moves too fast, if you are following, you're never winning.

 

[Zazigalka]

No, you don't buy Nvidia. AMD's cards could do RTX 4080 Super, but the price will be 40% of that RTX 4080 Super.

I'll get back to that comment once 9070XT launches.

 

[Hecate91]

If AMD prices a similar performing card (i'm even excluding RT and DLSS here) for 40% at launch most people will buy them over Nvidia.

Expecting AMD to price a card for 40% of what Nvidia sells their card for is completely ignoring reality. I realize AMD can't price their cards like Nvidia, they don't have the brand image or mindshare, but expecting AMD to hand their products out for free is unrealistic.
Edit- Nvidia has much higher margins and likely has higher profit than AMD does per card, I wouldn't doubt AMD already has low margins on some of their cards, selling at a fraction of what Nvidia does would just result in losses. I think AMD couldn't win a price war even if they could profit from it, people will buy from Nvidia no matter how expensive they are.

 

[dgianstefani]

There's also the fact that AMD has bigger dies for similar performance. Eg 7900XT 530 mm vs 4080S 380 mm.

Similar to huge B580 die compared to 4060 etc. Much higher cost of manufacturing to get similar result.

 

[Zazigalka]

Hey guys, is this the line for those $400 4080s from AMD ? Or should I maybe leave a letter on the windowsill ? My point is: get real, you're not children (although you're acting like you are). In what world, besides your colorful imagination (as it always is before any amd gpu launch), do you think amd would release a card same or better than 7900xtx and sell it at half 7900xtx's price ?

 

[Bomby569]

Hey guys, is this the line for those $400 4080s from AMD ?

they could always do a 2 for 1: Buy a 9070xt full nvidia price -50usd as usual, but get a cpu for free, a 9600x would be nice

 

[AusWolf]

Yeah we're actually then saying the same thing just approaching it differently; AMD can't price like Nvidia and they shouldn't, its clear they're followers and not leaders, and that's the core of the issue. They don't lead on their own strategy, they're in wait and see mode and it never convinces anyone. Its not even about tech savvy or not I think, AMD just has no real story. Nvidia does. Its more than marketing that story, its about writing it, too. The on-and-off GPU dedication AMD shows us is a marketshare killer, I'm convinced of that. Tech moves too fast, if you are following, you're never winning.

AMD has better Linux support and a generally open source approach to gaming tech as opposed to Nvidia's in-house technologies, which makes them more likeable in my eyes. The problem is that their marketing is shit, they don't know how to build on what they have. They are looked at as a follower of Nvidia because that's the image that they build for themselves, and not because that's what they are. Their keynotes and presentations should be about open-source gaming, and not about "hey, look, we have RT, too".