Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[Mussels]

Good idea, I'll check. Though if that was the case, I'd hear some gurgling, wouldn't I?

not always - gurgling is when its moving, if its small it can be stuck in weird places

Having a custom loop with transparent blocks helped understand just how easily that can happen, i had bubbles stuck in place for weeks at one point, even when i could see them and shake the PC to get them to move they'd reform in the same spot til i adjust the loop design to make them form somewhere else

That's the idea behind being specific with AIO radiator placement, to encourage the bubbles to form in the end of the res instead of the pump, block, or tubing

AIO coolants vary a ton, but the thicker ones have tiny tiny bubbles that are slow to move/merge/pop - pinhead sized, not pea sized

 

[AusWolf]

not always - gurgling is when its moving, if its small it can be stuck in weird places

Having a custom loop with transparent blocks helped understand just how easily that can happen, i had bubbles stuck in place for weeks at one point, even when i could see them and shake the PC to get them to move they'd reform in the same spot til i adjust the loop design to make them form somewhere else

That's the idea behind being specific with AIO radiator placement, to encourage the bubbles to form in the end of the res instead of the pump, block, or tubing

AIO coolants vary a ton, but the thicker ones have tiny tiny bubbles that are slow to move/merge/pop - pinhead sized, not pea sized

Why can't I just buy a big-ass tower cooler that breaks one's motherboard in half, like any normal person?

 

[Mussels]

Why can't I just buy a big-ass tower cooler that breaks one's motherboard in half, like any normal person?

It's just a flaw of being compatible back with AM4, it's not like us experienced builders would ever forget to attach coolers evenly or anything

 

[AusWolf]

It's just a flaw of being compatible back with AM4, it's not like us experienced builders would ever forget to attach coolers evenly or anything

This has just arrived. I'll have a play tomorrow, but if my temperatures are still shit, I'll stop calling myself an "experienced builder". I wanted to play with X3D, but instead, it's playing with me now.

 

[dont whant to set it"']

@AusWolf I see you went for an inbetween step with the offset kit.
My take on it was : I'm gonna risk it with one off fleabay, cause I kind seen myself deliding it , so what would be the point of warranty , some > 80squid saved at that moment vs msrp.

In the "mean time" I got something for it for a changeover to watercooling, modifications implied, if I can find the time and some resources(duh bachelor , resources available kinda sort of).

 

[AusWolf]

@AusWolf I see you went for an inbetween step with the offset kit.
My take on it was : I'm gonna risk it with one off fleabay, cause I kind seen myself deliding it , so what would be the point of warranty , some > 80squid saved at that moment vs msrp.

In the "mean time" I got something for it for a changeover to watercooling, modifications implied, if I can find the time and some resources(duh bachelor , resources available kinda sort of).

That's cool.

I don't think delidding is for me, though. It's a bit too risky, and I don't want to lose the warranty, either.

Good luck to you, and post some updates.


Update: I've just installed the TG offset cooler mount with the Kryonaut paste. No changes. I don't know what's wrong now.

Edit: I basically can't run boost with a 280 mm AIO (it only goes up to around 4500 MHz). This is ridiculous.

 

[Mussels]

I don't think delidding is for me, though. It's a bit too risky

On both AM4 and AM5 i'd consider it a bit risky, although since i have spare AM4 chips it does tempt me to learn how one day... it just adds to the long term maintenance when you need to check up on the LM under the IHS every few years, and if you resell new owners need to trust your work


check the RPM of the pump? Make sure it's actually cranked to 100%?

Seeing the full HWinfo screen while still at load, is gunna give the most details

 

[AusWolf]

check the RPM of the pump? Make sure it's actually cranked to 100%?

Seeing the full HWinfo screen while still at load, is gunna give the most details

Yes, it's running at 3000 rpm. I can't wrap my head around it. 80 W is what my cooler dissipates now to maintain 89 °C.

Here's a load screenshot with boost and EXPO disabled, with a relatively relaxed fan curve:

 

[Mussels]

Are all the core temperatures equal?

And the obvious next step is to check the temp of the AIO hoses and radiator, to make sure it's not airflow blocked, kinked, bent, clogged etc - or something obviously daft that we all screw up sooner or later like having half the fans backwards


51W at 76C is at the point it's almost like passive cooling

You need to physically map out what's connected where with these, as i'm sure you have several fans

 

[AusWolf]

Are all the core temperatures equal?

They're all within 1 °C of each other.

And the obvious next step is to check the temp of the AIO hoses and radiator, to make sure it's not airflow blocked, kinked, bent, clogged etc - or something obviously daft that we all screw up sooner or later like having half the fans backwards

I feel a slight difference between the temperature of the two hoses. My radiator was pretty cold even with the 7700X for some reason (it's always been the case with chiplet CPUs). The only CPU that warmed it up properly was the i7-11700 at 160-ish W.

You need to physically map out what's connected where with these, as i'm sure you have several fans
View attachment 302974

Oh, sorry about that. I forgot that they're not as obvious to someone who doesn't know my system as they are to me.

Basically, "CPU" is the two radiator fans on a splitter. "PUMP" is the pump and "system 1, 2 and 3" are my exhaust fans.

 

[AusWolf]

Update: I had a hunch, so I installed my trusty old be quiet! Shadow Rock LP on top of the 7800X3D and ran a 10-minute Cinebench loop... only to see the CPU get 10 °C cooler than with the Silent Loop 2!

That's a 50-55 W total package power, 74 °C on the 280 mm AIO, and 64 °C on the small, 4-heatpipe budget cooler. Not to mention it's a bit quieter as well.

I don't dare turn on boost with this tiny little thing, but the fact that it makes the CPU run way cooler at the same 4.2 GHz makes me think that there's something wrong with the AIO. Later, I'm gonna check if it needs topping up, and if that's the only problem, I think I'm gonna sell it. It's weird that it manifested at the same time I swapped CPUs, but oh well... My days with liquid cooling are thus finished.

 

[freeagent]

AIOs suck bro. From what I have seen on other forums is that people who are using the same hardware as me but using an AIO with lower limits and clocks all get higher idle and load temps. Not by a little either..

 

[AusWolf]

AIOs suck bro. From what I have seen on other forums is that people who are using the same hardware as me but using an AIO with lower limits and clocks all get higher idle and load temps. Not by a little either..

This one worked wonders on the i7-11700. That's why I bought it, because the Shadow Rock LP just wasn't good enough for a 170-ish W Intel CPU. It's ironic that it gets its ass kicked by the same small cooler on AM5.

Update (again): I took the courage to enable EXPO and boost with the low profile cooler, and ran Cinebench. The CPU boosted to 4700-4750 MHz before reaching the max. temp of 89 °C with a power consumption of 84 W, and achieved 17,700 points. That's 200 MHz, or 700 points higher than with the AIO that costs about 2.5-3x as much as this single-fan wonder. Now I mean it, I'll never buy an AIO again.

For now, I'm gonna keep the system as it is because I'm impressed to no end. I've got a week left before I go on a holiday, after which I'll think about buying a bigger cooler.

 

[R-T-B]

This one worked wonders on the i7-11700. That's why I bought it, because the Shadow Rock LP just wasn't good enough for a 170-ish W Intel CPU. It's ironic that it gets its ass kicked by the same small cooler on AM5.

Update (again): I took the courage to enable EXPO and boost with the low profile cooler, and ran Cinebench. The CPU boosted to 4700-4750 MHz before reaching the max. temp of 89 °C with a power consumption of 84 W, and achieved 17,700 points. That's 200 MHz, or 700 points higher than with the AIO that costs about 2.5-3x as much as this single-fan wonder. Now I mean it, I'll never buy an AIO again.

For now, I'm gonna keep the system as it is because I'm impressed to no end. I've got a week left before I go on a holiday, after which I'll think about buying a bigger cooler.

This makes me glad I just stuck with my bigass Noctua air cooler with blower fans, lol.

 

[tabascosauz]

This one worked wonders on the i7-11700. That's why I bought it, because the Shadow Rock LP just wasn't good enough for a 170-ish W Intel CPU. It's ironic that it gets its ass kicked by the same small cooler on AM5.

Update (again): I took the courage to enable EXPO and boost with the low profile cooler, and ran Cinebench. The CPU boosted to 4700-4750 MHz before reaching the max. temp of 89 °C with a power consumption of 84 W, and achieved 17,700 points. That's 200 MHz, or 700 points higher than with the AIO that costs about 2.5-3x as much as this single-fan wonder. Now I mean it, I'll never buy an AIO again.

For now, I'm gonna keep the system as it is because I'm impressed to no end. I've got a week left before I go on a holiday, after which I'll think about buying a bigger cooler.

I'm thinking the 5800X3D marked a shift towards a focus on CPU mounting quality, which seems to have left AIOs by the wayside. I'm not sure what it is exactly, but time and time again people complain about AIOs being impossibly hard to get a good mount on these CPUs, even when tight as can be.

Get a FC140, bro. Best $50 you'll ever spend

 

[freeagent]

I agree. I can run my 58X3D with no fans installed on the FC140.. any workload

 

[gffermari]

....well, my U12A is a bit worse than the custom water cooling I had previously.
(ok it's a bit unfair comparison a custom 3x240 radiator wc to a single tower 120 fan cooler)
Taking into account that my 5800X3D is not the best silicon, running at 80-84 degrees at -30 all cores voltage, but still the Noctua can keep it within spec regardless the load.

@AusWolf
What's the liquid temp when you run R23?

 

[freeagent]

Here's mine after running for a few hours.. ambient is 20c.. was like 35c outside today Puke:

WCG on the CPU and F@H on the GPU

 

[Mussels]

Update: I had a hunch, so I installed my trusty old be quiet! Shadow Rock LP on top of the 7800X3D and ran a 10-minute Cinebench loop... only to see the CPU get 10 °C cooler than with the Silent Loop 2!

That's a 50-55 W total package power, 74 °C on the 280 mm AIO, and 64 °C on the small, 4-heatpipe budget cooler. Not to mention it's a bit quieter as well.

I don't dare turn on boost with this tiny little thing, but the fact that it makes the CPU run way cooler at the same 4.2 GHz makes me think that there's something wrong with the AIO. Later, I'm gonna check if it needs topping up, and if that's the only problem, I think I'm gonna sell it. It's weird that it manifested at the same time I swapped CPUs, but oh well... My days with liquid cooling are thus finished.

there was bad batches of coolant for many many brands, and they're harder to mount when they were usually designed for intel first and AMD second
You may find theres dust in the fins, or even clogged coolant if you open the block to drain it


All ryzen CPU's have cared about since the 3000 series launched is a quality baseplate, the size of the cooler has had no bearing on it - i've ran every AM4 CPU i've had on my dark rock slim (tiny 120mm cooler) and that thing has smashed them all, it's had zero problems with 140W load on the 5800x for example, staying around 80c as long ambients weren't at 45c at the time

from a TPU AIO review, a 120mm air cooler keeping up with a generic 360mm AIO says it all
(The dark rock slim is inaudible at 100% fan speed, TPU's review doesnt max the fan)

~70c at 115W with the ram tuned to the wazoo (higher SoC voltage adds to the wattages) makes happeh
This is the main system on custom water - old photo, no RAM fan and slightly neater at present

5800x ITX rig, eco mode (90W limit) - no undervolt curve yet, don't want crashes in VR gaming

And then my kids PC, having some weird error that keeps resetting the CMOS (new battery) or crashing mid-boot on cold boots.
No point testing when its bloody forgotten all the settings i had saved.
Suppose changing the PSU is next in case that's the issue.
3700x is low wattage anyway, but it's handled absurdly well on this cooler - and the 5800x lived here while the ITX system was lacking a mobo

Okay on the aorus/kids system

This thread has the exact same problem and blames the DP cable?
Gigabyte AORUS X570 BIOS Resetting / Cold Boot Issue SOLVED..! : gigabyte (reddit.com)

I have had weird boot issues that almost seemed GPU related, but didnt go away changing GPUs

It's the cable that came with the display in use (a gigabyte one, ironically) but i guess its possible

This does fit the symptoms - investigating the cables and how to test em, now

 

[AusWolf]

I'm thinking the 5800X3D marked a shift towards a focus on CPU mounting quality, which seems to have left AIOs by the wayside. I'm not sure what it is exactly, but time and time again people complain about AIOs being impossibly hard to get a good mount on these CPUs, even when tight as can be.

I think there must be something with the small chiplets pumping out all the heat in one corner compared to large, monolithic chips dissipating it over the majority of the IHS. I'm not sure if every AIO's coldplate is designed to handle such concentrated heat. I'm not a physicist, but I think you need some heat soaked into the cooler before you can dissipate it. That's why this AIO worked a lot better with the 11700 when its radiator was warm to the touch. The monolithic chip heated the whole coldplate, not just a tiny segment of it.

Now, if the rad is cold, it means heat isn't getting transferred into the liquid, and my theory is that the coldplate, or the area of the coldplate where the chiplets are doesn't have enough surface area to do it, so all the heat gets trapped in that tiny segment of the coldplate, while the liquid stays cold because the rest of the coldplate is cold. Mounting pressure can't help this, unfortunately.

Air coolers, on the other hand, I mean the ones with no direct contact heatpipes, have large metal chunks serving as coldplates, which are a lot better at soaking up concentrated heat from a small area.

It's all just a theory, though.

@AusWolf
What's the liquid temp when you run R23?

I don't know - my AIO doesn't have a liquid temp sensor. The rad is cold to the touch, though.

there was bad batches of coolant for many many brands, and they're harder to mount when they were usually designed for intel first and AMD second
You may find theres dust in the fins, or even clogged coolant if you open the block to drain it

All ryzen CPU's have cared about since the 3000 series launched is a quality baseplate, the size of the cooler has had no bearing on it - i've ran every AM4 CPU i've had on my dark rock slim (tiny 120mm cooler) and that thing has smashed them all, it's had zero problems with 140W load on the 5800x for example, staying around 80c as long ambients weren't at 45c at the time

Maybe it's this.

I've always favoured AIOs compared to custom loops because they're relatively maintenance-free. And now here I am, trying to figure out why a £40 low profile air cooler works better on my 7800X3D than a £140 AIO, whether it's maintenance needed, or something else. Seriously, this will be my last AIO, never again. I've said it three times now, so I mean it.

And then my kids PC, having some weird error that keeps resetting the CMOS (new battery) or crashing mid-boot on cold boots.
No point testing when its bloody forgotten all the settings i had saved.
Suppose changing the PSU is next in case that's the issue.
3700x is low wattage anyway, but it's handled absurdly well on this cooler - and the 5800x lived here while the ITX system was lacking a mobo
View attachment 303244

That Dark Rock Slim looks awesome!

I'm really tempted to get a Dark Rock 4 now. Not because I need it for the 7800X3D, but because I might make good use of it in the future. Not to mention, I'm a silence freak.

I briefly played with the thought of having a Dark Rock Pro 4, but it's heavier, more expensive, and more difficult to install. Complete overkill.

Get a FC140, bro. Best $50 you'll ever spend

It looks cool, but all my case fans are be quiet!, so I'd rather stay with the brand to keep the theme of the build.

 

[tabascosauz]

@AusWolf they don't exactly bundle great fans with the PA120 and FC140. I recommend them only for fan swaps. Should be pretty easy to get a pair of Silent Wings 4 120 and 140 for the cooler

 

[AusWolf]

@AusWolf they don't exactly bundle great fans with the PA120 and FC140. I recommend them only for fan swaps. Should be pretty easy to get a pair of Silent Wings 4 120 and 140 for the cooler

If I also have to spend on a fan swap, I might as well just get a cooler with good fans.

I just had a look:

 

[Mussels]

Working on the 3700x rig and why the BIOS kept resetting

Pretty good odds it was the displayport cable, since changing that it's been a lot more consistent - and it wasnt the only PC to refuse to work on this display on DP, that worked fine on HDMI

The second issue is this... when gigabyte software auto installed trashware that crashed asus aura, and erased the SPD on one of my RAM sticks

Zentimings can read it, BIOS can see it, but CPU-Z cant?

To be clear this occurs on all my boards, and all the other slots show in CPU-Z so it's not software
(yes yes its mixed ram, but its only for 3200)

 

[AusWolf]

Working on the 3700x rig and why the BIOS kept resetting

Pretty good odds it was the displayport cable, since changing that it's been a lot more consistent - and it wasnt the only PC to refuse to work on this display on DP, that worked fine on HDMI

The second issue is this... when gigabyte software auto installed trashware that crashed asus aura, and erased the SPD on one of my RAM sticks

Zentimings can read it, BIOS can see it, but CPU-Z cant?
View attachment 303253

To be clear this occurs on all my boards, and all the other slots show in CPU-Z so it's not software
(yes yes its mixed ram, but its only for 3200)
View attachment 303254View attachment 303255

Erase SPD by software? How is that even possible?

 

[tabascosauz]

If I also have to spend on a fan swap, I might as well just get a cooler with good fans.

I just had a look:

The point is that even with strong fans (ie. T30), it is still cheaper while outperforming its usual "competitors" (D15, DRP4, etc.). But seeing as it is not available in the UK, that's the end of that I guess. Don't buy it for a bad price.

Deepcool has the AK620 in a couple colour schemes. It's a good performer comparable to PA120, with a generally understated design that is a bit sleeker than the PA120 and FC140. I personally take a shine to the silver/black one. Prices on Amazon.co.uk seem reasonable.

DeepCool AK620 CPU Air Cooler, 6 Heatpipes, Dual-Tower, 2 x 120mm Fans, LGA1700 Compatible : Amazon.co.uk: Toys & Games