Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[ir_cow]

So worse performance on same ICs just because it's 24GB/48GB? Or because it's a new higher density IC. Interesting.

One in the same right? Dual-Rank often has loser timings to be generic IMC friendly to the masses, but you can often just tighten them up without much fuss. I would say the density alone is the reason for it. Though with "loser" timings also comes with the benefit of lower operating voltage.


I would say since AM5 Ryzen isn't great on the high frequency support compared to Intel, reaching 6000 and going with the lowest timings will do wonders. Excluding the X3D of course.
Here is an example of two kits at 6000, both running EXPO profiles.

G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-38-38-96 1.35V
Team T-Force Delta DDR5-6000 38-38-38-78 1.25V





As long as your are not GPU bound, memory is very impactful for AMD.


Once you are completely GPU bound, it kinda doesn't matter that much for the average. The 1% will be worse, but you may not notice them.

 

[eidairaman1]

I have a strange issue with my board.

I plugged in my 5900X and mistakenly chose an X3D profile..

Now I have no Advanced PBO in the back AMD section. But the Asus one works, though I cant fine tune it like I could before, and I have to throw hella power at it, and its still not as good.

Its like I flashed the CPU. I tried different AGESA versions, but the OC section is still greyed out, like on X3D.

Grr.

May have to clear cmos and take battery out

 

[AusWolf]

One in the same right? Dual-Rank often has loser timings to be generic IMC friendly to the masses, but you can often just tighten them up without much fuss. I would say the density alone is the reason for it. Though with "loser" timings also comes with the benefit of lower operating voltage.


I would say since AM5 Ryzen isn't great on the high frequency support compared to Intel, reaching 6000 and going with the lowest timings will do wonders. Excluding the X3D of course.
Here is an example of two kits at 6000, both running EXPO profiles.

G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-38-38-96 1.35V
Team T-Force Delta DDR5-6000 38-38-38-78 1.25V

View attachment 303681
View attachment 303684
View attachment 303682

As long as your are not GPU bound, memory is very impactful for AMD.

View attachment 303683
Once you are completely GPU bound, it kinda doesn't matter that much for the average. The 1% will be worse, but you may not notice them.

That's exactly why I'm not fussed about memory latency at all. I see literally zero difference between the orange and green graph points. The rest is just placebo.

 

[ir_cow]

That's exactly why I'm not fussed about memory latency at all. I see literally zero difference between the orange and green graph points. The rest is just placebo.

If your are GPU bound yeah. But there is a different in the average, 95 and 99th when its CPU limited. I'll take the extra 10 fps, if the cost in difference is only a few dollars more.

 

[AusWolf]

If your are GPU bound yeah. But there is a different in the average, 95 and 99th when its CPU limited. I'll take the extra 10 fps, if the cost in difference is only a few dollars more.

If it's only a few bucks with no messing in the BIOS, then sure, I agree.

 

[Ruru]

Would be nice to know that why AMD didn't release the 5600X3D worldwide (at least not yet).

 

[3x0]

Would be nice to know that why AMD didn't release the 5600X3D worldwide (at least not yet).

Small number of 5600X3D are available.

 

[tabascosauz]

Would be nice to know that why AMD didn't release the 5600X3D worldwide (at least not yet).

Each day they dwell on AM4, the longer AM5 has to share the spotlight.........lol. It's a dead platform. For more than half a year a lot of boards here have been insanely priced or difficult/impossible to find. They probably wanted to make a last bit of money with some dies lying around, especially since you only need 1 mostly-working low clock 5800X3D reject CCD to make it.

Even on mobile AMD's gotta learn to let go. This whole mobile 7000 family dealio will keep repeating itself unless AMD can get its supply up and on time, and shed the old-ass garbage instead of trying to recycle it.

 

[the54thvoid]

I could have upgraded my AM4 to a 5800X3D, but it seemed silly given the AM5 will stick around for a generation or so. The 7800X3D system I'm on now (at stock, admittedly) boots faster than I expected, and I've no stability issues. That'll come when I get round fiddling with RAM voltages to get my spec to 6000MHz.

 

[AusWolf]

Each day they dwell on AM4, the longer AM5 has to share the spotlight.........lol. It's a dead platform. For more than half a year a lot of boards here have been insanely priced or difficult/impossible to find. They probably wanted to make a last bit of money with some dies lying around, especially since you only need 1 mostly-working low clock 5800X3D reject CCD to make it.

Even on mobile AMD's gotta learn to let go. This whole mobile 7000 family dealio will keep repeating itself unless AMD can get its supply up and on time, and shed the old-ass garbage instead of trying to recycle it.

As long as a decent AM5 board costs at least 100 quid more than its AM4 equivalent, as long as AM4 CPUs offer decent enough performance, and as long as AM4 is still way more popular than AM5 for the above reasons, it's not a dead platform, imo.

 

[tabascosauz]

As long as a decent AM5 board costs at least 100 quid more than its AM4 equivalent, as long as AM4 CPUs offer decent enough performance, and as long as AM4 is still way more popular than AM5 for the above reasons, it's not a dead platform, imo.

I never said it's dead on performance. When you can't find boards to put your CPU in (the entire segment ITX boards have already gone that way), it's a dead platform. The remaining boards are also marked up.

AMD has clearly been heading in that direction for months, the stark change in board availability isn't a lucky coincidence. The cheaper A620 boards and Phoenix (2?) coming up are a step in the right direction, or else AM4 is forever going to be around dragging them down.

I dunno about UK pricing, but the B650M DS3H and HDV/M.2 are both closing on a whopping $100 cheaper than the midrange (yet specs-wise comparable) mATX B550s at launch. I don't see anything wrong with either board in combination with, say, a 7600/7700/7900/7800X3D. The mATX midrangers (TUF) are about the same as B550. B650 Tomahawk is cheaper than the B550 Tomahawk was. DDR5 pricing has also come way down, a 32GB kit of Hynix costs less than a 32GB kit of B-die.

As for CPUs themselves, the regular Raphaels have long since come down in price (basically Zen 3 product stack pricing each tier falling down to the tier below's price point, but much sooner than Zen 3), and the X3Ds look about right for a newer product, in line with Zen 2 and 3 launches, that hasn't yet gone on sale. It was entertaining making fun of the overpriced boards at first, but it's just getting old now.

 

[AusWolf]

I never said it's dead on performance. When you can't find boards to put your CPU in (the entire segment ITX boards have already gone that way), it's a dead platform. The remaining boards are also marked up.

AMD has clearly been heading in that direction for months, the stark change in board availability isn't a lucky coincidence. The cheaper A620 boards and Phoenix (2?) coming up are a step in the right direction, or else AM4 is forever going to be around dragging them down.

I dunno about UK pricing, but the B650M DS3H and HDV/M.2 are both closing on a whopping $100 cheaper than the midrange (yet specs-wise comparable) mATX B550s at launch. I don't see anything wrong with either board in combination with, say, a 7600/7700/7900/7800X3D. The mATX midrangers (TUF) are about the same as B550. B650 Tomahawk is cheaper than the B550 Tomahawk was. DDR5 pricing has also come way down, a 32GB kit of Hynix costs less than a 32GB kit of B-die.

As for CPUs themselves, the regular Raphaels have long since come down in price (basically Zen 3 product stack pricing each tier falling down to the tier below's price point, but much sooner than Zen 3), and the X3Ds look about right for a newer product, in line with Zen 2 and 3 launches, that hasn't yet gone on sale. It was entertaining making fun of the overpriced boards at first, but it's just getting old now.

I just checked, good B650 boards are still about 60-80 GBP more expensive than their B550 counterparts. Zen 4 CPU and DDR5 prices have come down to the level where I'd say Zen 4 is pretty reasonable, and DDR5 is outright cheap. But all this still won't make the bazillion people on AM4 make the change. A whole platform upgrade isn't worth the investment.

I think we're approaching an age that is very similar to Intel's 4-core era... when hardware generations aren't different enough from the previous one to warrant upgrading - which isn't a bad thing if you consider how long you can keep your system without spending money on it.

With that in mind, I think AM5 will live its heydays a couple of CPU generations down the line, when present-day AM4 CPUs don't cut it anymore.

 

[tabascosauz]

I just checked, good B650 boards are still about 60-80 GBP more expensive than their B550 counterparts. Zen 4 CPU and DDR5 prices have come down to the level where I'd say Zen 4 is pretty reasonable, and DDR5 is outright cheap. But all this still won't make the bazillion people on AM4 make the change. A whole platform upgrade isn't worth the investment.

I think we're approaching an age that is very similar to Intel's 4-core era... when hardware generations aren't different enough from the previous one to warrant upgrading - which isn't a bad thing if you consider how long you can keep your system without spending money on it.

With that in mind, I think AM5 will live its heydays a couple of CPU generations down the line, when present-day AM4 CPUs don't cut it anymore.

Sounds like there's some sort of misunderstanding here. I'm not commenting on performance or that AM4 users should switch. Dead platform, no boards = it's not a valid choice anymore for new builds.

5600X3D is not launching into the same market that 5800X3D did, it is almost literally an upgrade CPU and nothing more. AM4 needs to be put away, and AMD knows it.

However, the AM5 ITX boards are way too expensive for what they are. I'll stay put until that changes.

 

[AusWolf]

Sounds like there's some sort of misunderstanding here. I'm not commenting on performance or that AM4 users should switch. Dead platform, no boards = it's not a valid choice anymore for new builds.

5600X3D is not launching into the same market that 5800X3D did, it is almost literally an upgrade CPU and nothing more. AM4 needs to be put away, and AMD knows it.

However, the AM5 ITX boards are way too expensive for what they are. I'll stay put until that changes.

Ah, I see! I agree, I wouldn't build a new AM4 system right now. But if someone is on AM4 with an older CPU, the 5600X3D might be a good, relatively low-budget upgrade option to breathe new life into the system and postpone a complete overhaul for a couple more years (if you live in the USA near a Microcenter, that is). I think (or at least I'd hope) the 5600X3D targets those people, and not new builders.

 

[tabascosauz]

Ah, I see! I agree, I wouldn't build a new AM4 system right now. But if someone is on AM4 with an older CPU, the 5600X3D might be a good, relatively low-budget upgrade option to breathe new life into the system and postpone a complete overhaul for a couple more years (if you live in the USA near a Microcenter, that is). I think (or at least I'd hope) the 5600X3D targets those people, and not new builders.

Exactly, which is why the prospect of it making it out there internationally is pretty hopium imo lol, both for the leftover silicon reason and target audience.

I had to check 5800X3D price today, it's down to $350. I bought at $499 10 months ago. 5600X3D is about $300 equivalent right now. I'm pretty sure my 5600G was like $350 at the time lmao.

The 5600X3D seems like REALLY low quality silicon from the GN review. SP variance, not sure if they validate with HWInfo, yada yada......but hitting a wall at 4350 sustained and falling short of stock Fmax and box spec is really low. Considering it's already at only 4450, even 5600Gs and 5800X3Ds are pegged at 4450 all-core, should be absolute child's play for any Zen 3 CPU. Looks like a clearance sale all right, stack some Vcache on every CCD we have and push it out the door.

 

[AusWolf]

Exactly, which is why the prospect of it making it out there internationally is pretty hopium imo lol, both for the leftover silicon reason and target audience.

I had to check 5800X3D price today, it's down to $350. I bought at $499 10 months ago. 5600X3D is about $300 equivalent right now. I'm pretty sure my 5600G was like $350 at the time lmao.

The 5600X3D seems like REALLY low quality silicon from the GN review. SP variance, not sure if they validate with HWInfo, yada yada......but hitting a wall at 4350 sustained and falling short of stock Fmax and box spec is really low. Considering it's already at only 4450, even 5600Gs and 5800X3Ds are pegged at 4450 all-core, should be absolute child's play for any Zen 3 CPU. Looks like a clearance sale all right, stack some Vcache on every CCD we have and push it out the door.

I haven't watched any review yet, but I will.

I think AMD only chose the target audience wrong. This thing could have been a dream for gamers in developing countries, but instead, they decided to sell it in a few locations in the USA where the majority of gamers are either on stronger systems already (5800X3D, higher core count AM4, AM5, Intel 12-13th gen, etc), or they're saving up to be on stronger systems eventually, and the 5600X3D could only serve as a stop gap, for which it is too expensive.

 

[Nordic]

Update: Gentoo sure likes to push my cores all the way to the limit thermally speaking. I had to drop-off my all-core OC (before you say I am losing performance, lol, not with gentoo that pounds 32 threads regularly) from 5.2Ghz to 5.1Ghz because I was actually tripping some thermal warnings in the log. Now much more reasonable.



EDIT: And no, my cores aren't that magically even thermally. Gentoo just doesn't know how to interpret the cpu thermal diode I chose for the "hotspot" as anything but 32 sensors for each chip, lol.

I plan to do a similar "upgrade" soon with Endeavor. For as CPU limited as Star Citizen is, it appears that Linux is giving an actual performance improvement. I want to at least try out Linux on the desktop again. It works so god damn well on my Steam Deck.

 

[R-T-B]

I plan to do a similar "upgrade" soon with Endeavor. For as CPU limited as Star Citizen is, it appears that Linux is giving an actual performance improvement. I want to at least try out Linux on the desktop again. It works so god damn well on my Steam Deck.

My main limitiation atm is that the nvidia closed source drivers offer very little leeway to tweak things when they are not able to support something. But well, that's closed source. Thankfully it happens little.

#notryzensfault

 

[Klemc]

No more news about BIOS update since1616 out (2023-5-16) ?.. no news of AGESA fixes (as promised) ?.. the kind that handles well their 7000 CPU and work correctly with 6000 RAM.

 

[trparky]

No more news about BIOS update since1616 out (2023-5-16) ?.. no news of AGESA fixes (as promised) ?.. the kind that handles well their 7000 CPU and work correctly with 6000 RAM.

I don't think a new AGESA version has come out from AMD yet.

 

[AusWolf]

... work correctly with 6000 RAM.

What's wrong with 6000 RAM on the current BIOS?

By the way, I couldn't help myself, and bought the 48 GB kit I asked about earlier. If anyone is interested, it works. I only had one boot hangup on first try (I didn't do a CMOS reset, so the board probably tried to apply the old timings, which failed), but other than that, smooth sailing on MSi's 1.80 BIOS.

 

[gffermari]

By the way, I couldn't help myself, and bought the 48 GB kit I asked about earlier. If anyone is interested, it works. I only had one boot hangup on first try (I didn't do a CMOS reset, so the board probably tried to apply the old timings, which failed), but other than that, smooth sailing on MSi's 1.80 BIOS.

.....Come on, you've upgraded almost everything.
Go for a 7900XT(X) now to complete the story.

 

[AusWolf]

.....Come on, you've upgraded almost everything.
Go for a 7900XT(X) now to complete the story.

Nah... maybe next year. I've spent way too much on PC hardware recently. Time to take a break.

 

[deb]

Hey all, just grabbed myself the 5600x3d combo from my local microcenter. Can I safely assume that the bios on the motherboard the combo came with will be able to run the 5600x3d?

 

[the54thvoid]

Hey all, just grabbed myself the 5600x3d combo from my local microcenter. Can I safely assume that the bios on the motherboard the combo came with will be able to run the 5600x3d?

No. Assume nothing with new CPU's. Go into the UEFI BIOS, see what version it is, and check against the motherboard's support list. Do that before any installation of OS, etc.
I looked at ASRock's BIOS list for that board and it didn't help. They released the X3D BIOS support after March 2022 though, so you'll need a BIOS that is dated after then.