Windows 11 24H2 is driving people to Linux

[Darmok N Jalad]

Only 3+ decades? Well I won't hold your obvious youth and lack of experience against you! This is ESPECIALLY so since I pretty much have to totally agree with you. If there's been one general category of persistent problems, almost since the OS first took over the duty from HW, it is with sleep/standby/hibernate modes.

That said, the vast majority of causes for Windows failing to go to sleep (or waking up for no apparent reason), is due to some connected hardware device - most commonly via USB, but sometimes by the NIC.

When the problem is constant and caused by a corrupt driver, becoming proficient with the powercfg command to determine which driver is a must. But sadly, too often the problem is intermittent. This (I believe) is not due to a corrupt driver, but rather a corrupt setting that, for whatever reason, suddenly becomes "stuck". And the only way to resolve that is by a "cold" boot. By "cold", I mean to shutdown the computer AND unplug from the wall (or flip the PSU's master power switch) for about 15 seconds. This removes all traces of the ATX Form Factor's required +5Vsb "standby" voltage from all points on the motherboard, allowing the "cold" boot to reset/correct the offending setting. So after 15 seconds, restore power and boot, cross fingers and toes and hopefully the computer will sleep as expected, until that setting becomes corrupt again.

BTW, at a former place of work, we used to be plagued by computers constantly waking up for no apparent reason. Then one day a coworker was looking out the window and noticed one of those huge double dump gravel trucks go by and suddenly several of our computers woke up. It was the subtle vibrations shaking the building and computer desks wiggling the mice just enough to wake up the computers. Then we noticed the occasional heavy foot-fall, a passing train, or an EC-135 launching in our direction would wake them too. So we got into the habit of flipping the mice on their backs when done using the computer. It worked.

lol Trucks are users too!

Another pro for Linux, at least on my install, is that mouse movement and clicks don’t wake the machine. Only a keystroke will wake it, which is much harder to trigger accidentally (unless you have mischievous cats). macOS behaves the same way, though a mouse click will wake, too. Windows consistently struggles with power management, Linux and macOS handle them really well.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Yes, it depends on your cooling solution.

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That issue is with the 5000 series. (Vermeer) Especially the "regular" 5800X, where it needs higher core clocks than the X3D. The X3D, OTOH can easily be turned down to 75W PPT, but don't know if that low for the non-X3D variant.

 

[TSiAhmat]

It's 99 percent overheating, especially the non-X3D 5800Xs. With every thing crammed on one CCD, it has trouble handling 142W PPT!

They have trouble with most coolers! You need to make sure the pump, if using a liquid cooler, is at full speed!

Seems like the PC does everything right in that regard... But thanks for the Info! (Also use a rather small Air Cooler)

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

(Also use a rather small Air Cooler)

That's your problem! I'm not surprised that it randomly shuts down. With a much bigger cooler, I regularly got 80-86C! (multi-core-load)

5900X, OTOH is much easier to keep cool!

 

[Bill_Bright]

at least on my install, is that mouse movement and clicks don’t wake the machine. Only a keystroke will wake it

It should be noted this could be due to a setting in the BIOS Setup Menu. Many, if not all have "Wake on" options that rely on the +5Vsb standby voltage to keep various USB, PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse ports (among other things) "alive" during sleep/standby mode.

The 3 typical options are "Wake on Keyboard", "Wake on Mouse", and "Wake on LAN". Typically, at the very least, "Wake on Keyboard" is enabled by default. If your "Wake on Mouse" is disabled, that would explain your scenario.

Note, for those wondering, "Wake on LAN" is typically disabled by default. It is used primarily for computers used in "unattended" locations and it allows an admin, for example, to wake and access a sleeping server in the middle of the night instead of having to make a road trip. "Remote access" is a very convenient feature, but obviously also introduces another set of security concerns that need to be addressed.

If remote access is not a feature you need enabled, I recommend everyone check to make sure it is disabled on their systems - just for peace of mind, if nothing else.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Note, for those wondering, "Wake on LAN" is typically disabled by default. It is used primarily for computers used in "unattended" locations and it allows an admin, for example, to wake and access a sleeping server in the middle of the night instead of having to make a road trip. "Remote access" is a very convenient feature, but obviously also introduces another set of security concerns that need to be addressed.

If remote access is not a feature you need enabled, I recommend everyone check to make sure it is disabled on their systems - just for peace of mind, if nothing else.

Wake On LAN annoyed me. That caused the PC to keep turning on, when I got ADSL back in 2007, IIRC. IIRC, it was the Northwood build that had the issue. (MSI 845E Max) (from 2002, IIRC) Older than my socket 462 system.

 

[R-T-B]

Wake-On-Lan can be annoying if you don't intend to use it, sure. But it has many use cases. I use it to start up client workstations at my workplace in the morning remotely.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

It should be noted this could be due to a setting in the BIOS Setup Menu. Many, if not all have "Wake on" options that rely on the +5Vsb standby voltage to keep various USB, PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse ports (among other things) "alive" during sleep/standby mode.

Curious, as I don’t change any BIOS settings when dual booting Windows and Linux but get different behavior. Either Linux or Windows is doing whatever it wants. Haven’t checked the BIOS to see, but considering how poorly power management is behaving in Windows, I’m guessing Linux is doing it correctly.

As a completely different annoyance, there’s a bug in the Adreniline dashboard that causes it to pop up every time on wake. Maybe AMD is messing with me too, but again, no problems on Linux. I never thought the day would come where Linux would become the low-maintenance OS, but here we are. It pretty much just stays out of the way.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Any "Critical" level error in the event log? If there is, most likely, hibernate is not shutting down Windows properly. That means time to enter powercfg /H off at the admin terminal, then reboot.

 

[stahlhart]

Working fine here, apart from a few older games (that even fewer people care about) getting broken.

 

[GoldenX]

LTSC is what you use if you want 11 24H2 without bloat.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Imagine paying for an OS that spies on you and feeds you advertisements. The latest Windows updates CONTINUE to move people to linux. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/03/linux-continues-growing-market-share-reaches-4-of-desktops/

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Imagine paying for an OS that spies on you and feeds you advertisements. The latest Windows updates CONTINUE to move people to linux. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/03/linux-continues-growing-market-share-reaches-4-of-desktops/

Just looking at the story you posed it looks like they took market share from Chrome OS/Mac OS more than anything from windows anyways. It's also pretty old being posted back in February.

Much more recent

Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of operating systems worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

 

[Kapone33]

It is obvious that a percentage of people agree with me (or not). We need to hold MS feet to the fire on this. Windows is supposed to be bullet proof. For most of us it was a free upgrade. They were hawking the OS over the last few years but Companies like MS need to get back to the root of what made them viable in the first place. Letting the engineers be the deciding vote on hardware.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Just looking at the story you posed it looks like they took market share from Chrome OS/Mac OS more than anything from windows anyways. It's also pretty old being posted back in February.

Much more recent

Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of operating systems worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Right, it is nearly 6.5% if you include ChromeOS.

 

[Kapone33]

Just looking at the story you posed it looks like they took market share from Chrome OS/Mac OS more than anything from windows anyways. It's also pretty old being posted back in February.

Much more recent

Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of operating systems worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Wow so much movement for Android.

 

[Timbaloo]

Market share is pretty much irrelevant. What matters is software support. If I don't miss anything on Linux, I'd be cool with a 0.0001% market share.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Market share is pretty much irrelevant. What matters is software support. If I don't miss anything on Linux, I'd be cool with a 0.0001% market share.

market share is very relevant to investors. if microshaft continues to lose share then its stock price goes down. also please note microshafts biggest innovation is a dumb terminal called windows 365 link. you will own nothing and be happy.

 

[Frick]

Windows is supposed to be bullet proof.

If by "bullet proof" you mean "backwards compatible" then yeah. Otherwise, what?

 

[Kapone33]

If by "bullet proof" you mean "backwards compatible" then yeah. Otherwise, what?

I mean no ridiculous bugs

 

[Timbaloo]

market share is very relevant to investors. if microshaft continues to lose share then its stock price goes down. also please note microshafts biggest innovation is a dumb terminal called windows 365 link. you will own nothing and be happy.

Thank god Linux is an operating system that does care little to none about the stock market either.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

market share is very relevant to investors. if microshaft continues to lose share then its stock price goes down. also please note microshafts biggest innovation is a dumb terminal called windows 365 link. you will own nothing and be happy.

Actually, I’m not entirely sure that MS is counting on Windows market share anymore. Look at most of their first-party tools—they are mostly cross-platform or have a browser version that acts very much like the native Windows app. I think they are aiming to sell services, and they position their services to work on whatever device you have. Not a bad strategy, TBH, other than it leading to a compromised experience (hello, New Outlook). I think MS is on a slow jog to make Windows irrelevant to their bottom line, which is good because they have really marginalized quality for the sake of being near the front of whatever market trend there is. Just look at Recall rollout (or lack of) to see how they’re more eager to be first than best with unproven technology.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Actually, I’m not entirely sure that MS is counting on Windows market share anymore. Look at most of their first-party tools—they are mostly cross-platform or have a browser version that acts very much like the native Windows app. I think they are aiming to sell services, and they position their services to work on whatever device you have. Not a bad strategy, TBH, other than it leading to a compromised experience (hello, New Outlook). I think MS is on a slow jog to make Windows irrelevant to their bottom line, which is good because they have really marginalized quality for the sake of being near the front of whatever market trend there is. Just look at Recall rollout (or lack of) to see how they’re more eager to be first than best with unproven technology.

Didn't think about that but you are probably right. With everything moving to the cloud so that we own nothing, the money will be in offering services instead of products. Of course Microsoft is more than willing to lead the way to societal doom just to make a lousy buck.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Didn't think about that but you are probably right. With everything moving to the cloud so that we own nothing, the money will be in offering services instead of products. Of course Microsoft is more than willing to lead the way to societal doom just to make a lousy buck.

MS has always had a problem with focus and cross-company collaboration. I mean, Office has pretty much never followed the design rules that Windows asks of every other developer, as an example. They just managed to get away with it for so long because they were uncontested. Now that PCs are essentially a secondary device to the smartphone in the consumer space, Windows just lacks the command it once had. In my own home, my wife will use her iPhone or iPad well before she fires up the W11 laptop she has. My 3 kids all use an iPad first. There was a time long ago when everyone would be fighting over the Windows machine, because it was the only viable option. Those days are long gone. Windows is not exciting, and is no longer the primary choice.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

The most pushy advertising so far is this:

Microsoft suggesting a CoPilot PC, when you have Windows 10. (A news article reported this and a screenshot was shown)

When number 1: Such PC is irrelevant for most content production systems, especially gaming! Especially when playing e-Sports. Same when modelling in most cases.

This is more problematic than the get-Windows-10-era in the later-2010s!