AvonXI don't know where you are getting at with this, but the results speak on their own.
Now if you are expecting for something that does not even exist on paper or on a road map, feel free to do so.

im not stupid enough to argue for or against, tests done on a alegged eng sample, Amd will have had ES 8350 chips for 6 months now that dosnt make it the final retail version to me.

Also on the last shown roadmap it clearly shows steamroller then excavator, it does not on that same page or anywhere in that PR bumph state that excavator or steamroller arch will be server only or the last cpu only chips from Amd,
, those are actual facts anything your implying is made up BS from someone Imho who knows nothing of the cpu business.

hows about you show me a slide where it says "this will be the last desktop cpu from Amd"" it can say something similar to that but circle it on the pic :p

yet again your arguments are random, just because it dosnt list the next 5 gens of cpu Arch dosnt mean there wont be any, by your logic i should start looking for a new job because I dont personally know my companys next 2 gens of anything, they might not be planning to do any work in 2014, they might just be giving up and retireing.

ohh and Yawwn

theoneandonlymrkAlso on the last shown roadmap it clearly shows steamroller then excavator, it does not on that same page or anywhere in that PR bumph state that excavator or steamroller arch will be server only or the last cpu only chips from Amd

However it does state with huge letters on the top left corner "AMD OPTERON FUTURE TECHNOLOGY" Have you missed that? Just asking.

AvonXHowever it does state with huge letters on the top left corner "AMD OPTERON FUTURE TECHNOLOGY" Have you missed that? Just asking.

thats because that slide used to back up yours and OBS's bs claims was taken from server PR bumph, but it clearly states they have a plan for the future, anyhow you disagree with me , i get it, i wont change your mind nor you mine, now stop quoteing me with your trolling shinanigins :p

it does not on that same page or anywhere in that PR bumph state that excavator or steamroller arch will be server only or the last cpu only chips from Amd,


still stands as valid also

AvonXHowever it does state with huge letters on the top left corner "AMD OPTERON FUTURE TECHNOLOGY" Have you missed that? Just asking.

Well Steamroller will be used on desktop platforms (for now, all we know is they will use it for APU's).
And if SR performs well for APU's why not use it instead of PD?



It could be that they are focusing on HSA, and that there will be nothing new (on performance end) until 2014 where we could maybe see performance Steamroller on 28nm along with integrated GPU (and a new socket, there were talks about an FM2 socket).


My speculation aside there is no official info about performance parts being dropped and at the same time , no official info on new chips.
So people should really stop spreading FUD until we get official info.

repman244Well Steamroller will be used on desktop platforms (for now, all we know is they will use it for APU's).
And if SR performs well for APU's why not use it instead of PD?

www.cpu-world.com/news_2012/images/L_AMD_desktop_roadmap_2012_2013.jpg

It could be that they are focusing on HSA, and that there will be nothing new (on performance end) until 2014 where we could maybe see performance Steamroller on 28nm along with integrated GPU (and a new socket, there were talks about an FM2 socket).


My speculation aside there is no official info about performance parts being dropped and at the same time , no official info on new chips.
So people should really stop spreading FUD until we get official info.

Sorry but this is an old road map and it still haves vishera piledriver on it for 2013 but its a release for 2012 and not for 2013.

AvonXSorry but this is an old road map and it still haves vishera piledriver on it for 2013 but its a release for 2012 and not for 2013.

You should look a bit better. And it's not old, it's from February and AFAIK there are no newer roadmaps.

repman244You should look a bit better. And it's not old, it's from February and AFAIK there are no newer roadmaps.

This is what Mark Papermaster said at AFDS summed up in these slides.
Now get a life and the other guy above. Cheers
Here is the link: www.2shared.com/document/_8ub9F--/AFDS_2012_Keynotes_Mark_Paperm.html

Now if you see anything about dedicated desktop cpus, i think you should get your eyes checked.

Enjoy

AvonXThis is what Mark Papermaster said at AFDS summed up in these slides.
Now get a life and the other guy above. Cheers
Here is the link: www.2shared.com/document/_8ub9F--/AFDS_2012_Keynotes_Mark_Paperm.html

Enjoy

Thanks for the link, and you should really try to communicate more civil. We are only discussing here, not pointing knifes at each other ;)

Like I said (even from the PDF from your link), there is no information about anything being canceled (Not talking about something != canceled). They are moving towards APU's and implementing HSA, like they say: The future is fusion. And it is.
I don't see why they couldn't make an APU (GCN based GPU) with 3 or 4 steamroller modules later down the road. Even if you look at their older slides, you will see that there were talks of integrating the GPU on the "performance" parts.



Yes the slide is old but the idea is there. A potential problem with such design could be the TDP/power consumption (Imagine 4 BD modules and a GPU inside:shadedshu).

EDIT: From the linked article:



I speculate that the "Future Server APU" will probably be same die as some desktop counterpart and it could maybe scale up to 6/8 cores as it suggests.

repman244I speculate that the "Future Server APU" will probably be same die as some desktop counterpart and it could maybe scale up to 6/8 cores as it suggests.

You cannot cherry pick one slide to speculate and make up your own conclusions. :laugh: Anyway its a server road map, doesn't say anything about desktops there.
In those slides i have uploaded to you there is two more slides of great importance and it clarifies a few things to what AMD is planing to do. :)

By the way this is an original AMD pdf file. Don't know about those other slides you have posted above.

_JP_So OBR has posted some benchmarks. Ok, so now we know it won't be anything like that. Good.

If I remember correctly the tests he did before Bulldozer was released were pretty accurate. Everyone was upset that the results were poor. Sure enough the retail versions were quite poor as well. The results I'm seeing with Vishera look to be quite plausible.

erockerIf I remember correctly the tests he did before Bulldozer was released were pretty accurate.

I haven't seen it, but i have read the same thing to what you are saying in other forums.

You're bumming me out!! Stop it!! :p

erockerIf I remember correctly the tests he did before Bulldozer was released were pretty accurate. Everyone was upset that the results were poor. Sure enough the retail versions were quite poor as well. The results I'm seeing with Vishera look to be quite plausible.

Where those tests also done with unpatched BIOS versions and ES samples?
Because I don't really remember.

_JP_Where those tests also done with unpatched BIOS versions and ES samples?
Because I don't really remember.

Yes, but as we all know it didn't really matter that much.

According to my single threaded score my CPU is faster than the proposed results.


1.18 Single on Cinebench 1 thread
6.50 on Multithreaded

AvonXYou cannot cherry pick one slide to speculate and make up your own conclusions. :laugh: Anyway its a server road map, doesn't say anything about desktops there.
In those slides i have uploaded to you there is two more slides of great importance and it clarifies a few things to what AMD is planing to do. :)

By the way this is an original AMD pdf file. Don't know about those other slides you have posted above.

Well we don't have more slides, so I can only go by one there is/the latest one, and speculating isn't a conclusion, it's just guess work :)
I went by the fact that they will make a lower end server chip (and if you look at the roadmap, Delhi is using AM3+) so it could remain the same in the future (But like I said this is just me speculating since AMD isn't saying anything).

The other slides I posted are much older (they are official AMD slides tho), but I just used them to make some kind of guess as to what was originally planned (and still is in some sort).

By the two other slides you mean the ULP parts and focusing onto APU's? If yes, that was expected from AMD long ago, it was/is the plan and the future.
We have the roadmap for mainstream APU's which obviously are here to stay/be improved.
The main question is, will they ever make an APU with 6/8 cores (Piledriver or Steamroller) to make it a "performance" part? I don't see why they shouldn't IF Steamroller is quite a big improvement. The main problem is that having 2 different dies is expensive (It would have to be the same as with BD now where all chips are the same dies with locked modules).

If however (and it's possible) Piledriver is the last higher end part, then we are at a loss here. With no competition Intel is free to do anything (imagine having fully locked CPU's with no option to overclock/tweak it).

repman244Well we don't have more slides, so I can only go by one there is/the latest one, and speculating isn't a conclusion, it's just guess work :)
I went by the fact that they will make a lower end server chip (and if you look at the roadmap, Delhi is using AM3+) so it could remain the same in the future (But like I said this is just me speculating since AMD isn't saying anything).

The other slides I posted are much older (they are official AMD slides tho), but I just used them to make some kind of guess as to what was originally planned (and still is in some sort).

By the two other slides you mean the ULP parts and focusing onto APU's? If yes, that was expected from AMD long ago, it was/is the plan and the future.
We have the roadmap for mainstream APU's which obviously are here to stay/be improved.
The main question is, will they ever make an APU with 6/8 cores (Piledriver or Steamroller) to make it a "performance" part? I don't see why they shouldn't IF Steamroller is quite a big improvement. The main problem is that having 2 different dies is expensive (It would have to be the same as with BD now where all chips are the same dies with locked modules).

If however (and it's possible) Piledriver is the last higher end part, then we are at a loss here. With no competition Intel is free to do anything (imagine having fully locked CPU's with no option to overclock/tweak it).

I think this says it all:



No more dedicated desktop cpus, and i think in the near future AMD may be moving towards having an APU-only lineup from APU to FX to Opteron chips.

erockerYes, but as we all know it didn't really matter that much.

Got it. I just wanted to know if similar conditions were met.
Well, guess there's no reason to hold my breath. I was aiming to get a 4170 anyway...I won't have the cash for the 4320, probably.

AvonXI think this says it all:

s8.postimage.org/6cg5tt4o5/Road_Map.jpg

No more dedicated desktop cpus, and i think in the near future AMD may be moving towards having an APU-only lineup from APU to FX to Opteron chips.

Correct, they want to move all their CPU's to APU's (ok maybe except high end opterons, but even there could be a benefit from the integrated GPU).
Right now it's very expensive to produce 2 different dies (Llano and BD), if they could move it to just one it would cut down the costs a lot.

But all we need now is a 6/8 core APU but those aren't seen on the roadmap (for 2013 at least, maybe we get some slides when Piledriver is release as to what is planned for 2014).
Maybe they want to see how Steamroller will perform (as an APU with 4 core), and if the power and performance requirements are met they release a 6/8 core version (with the GPU) as well.

All guess work for now tho.

repman244Right now it's very expensive to produce 2 different dies (

they produce 3 0r 4 cpu arch , and 3 types of gpu arch, thats why they have gone modular, plus they are doing the exact oposite and trying to get into designed for use oem arch IP insertion, enough said really, they will add a gpu , when it becomes limiting not to or just before, but not before a die shrink, and not before excavator imho ,which means to me AM3+ is likely to support steamroller then a new socket for excavator(+gpu) thats how i imagine it might go:D

above all bearing in mind they will be busy designing proprietary chips for microsoft sony and nintendo right now.

theoneandonlymrkthey produce 3 0r 4 cpu arch , and 3 types of gpu arch, thats why they have gone modular, plus they are doing the exact oposite and trying to get into designed for use oem arch IP insertion, enough said really, they will add a gpu , when it becomes limiting not to or just before, but not before a die shrink, and not before excavator imho ,which means to me AM3+ is likely to support steamroller then a new socket for excavator(+gpu) thats how i imagine it might go:D

above all bearing in mind they will be busy designing proprietary chips for microsoft sony and nintendo right now.

I imagine it quite similar. A new socket is a certain, there is no doubt about it unless they intend to use FM2 for ages but I doubt it. I don't know when PCI-E 3 (CPU integrated) is planned but AFAIK that will require a new socket.
Also not to forget about DDR4 (2014->) and a possibility of switching to quad channel (APU's need it badly IMO, the GPU has huge benefits from the bandwidth as was shown with overclocking the RAM on Llano/Trinity).

FM2 could probably work with Steamroller. FM1 -> FM2 = AM3 -> AM3+(ie. real changes are in power delivery). Steamroller is still a ways out yet, which gives FM2 a more than adequate lifespan. Even if they don't board cost si so low it doesn't really matter, anyway. High-end FM1 boards were $129, and most were priced @ $69-$89, so you could get a $200-$250 platform swap, CPU included. Same old ram works, it'll all be DDR3 for a while yet.

repman244Maybe they want to see how Steamroller will perform

Mark said its already been designed and its ready.
So i suppose they already know how it performs.

AvonXMark said its already been designed and its ready.
So i suppose they already know how it performs.

Too bad they couldn't just dump Piledriver and launch Steamroller in October. But maybe they will, and hence the launch delay. :p



:roll::roll::roll:

cadavecaToo bad they couldn't just dump Piledriver and launch Steamroller in October. But maybe they will, and hence the launch delay. :p



:roll::roll::roll:

I think they should. :roll:

cadavecaFM2 could probably work with Steamroller. FM1 -> FM2 = AM3 -> AM3+(ie. real changes are in power delivery). Steamroller is still a ways out yet, which gives FM2 a more than adequate lifespan. Even if they don't board cost si so low it doesn't really matter, anyway. High-end FM1 boards were $129, and most were priced @ $69-$89, so you could get a $200-$250 platform swap, CPU included. Same old ram works, it'll all be DDR3 for a while yet.

Do you think that the transition to GCN based integrated GPU won't require a change in socket? I know it is kind of a silly question but still.