Friday, September 4th 2015

AMD Radeon R9 Nano Review by TPU...Not

There won't be a Radeon R9 Nano review on TechPowerUp. AMD says that it has too few review samples for the press. When AMD first held up the Radeon R9 Nano at its "Fiji" GPU unveil, to us it came across as the most promising product based on the chip, even more than the R9 Fury series, its dual-GPU variant, and the food-processor-shaped SFF gaming desktop thing. The prospect of "faster than R9 290X at 175W" is what excited us the most, as that would disrupt NVIDIA's GM204 based products. Unfortunately, the most exciting product by AMD also has the least amount of excitement by AMD itself.

The first signs of that are, AMD making it prohibitively expensive at $650, and not putting it in the hands of the press, for a launch-day review. We're not getting one, and nor do some of our friends on either sides of the Atlantic. AMD is making some of its tallest claims with this product, and it's important (for AMD) that some of those claims are put to the test. A validated product could maybe even convince some to reach for their wallets, to pull out $650.
Are we sourgraping? You tell us. We're one of the few sites that give you noise testing by some really expensive and broad-ranged noise-testing equipment, and more importantly, card-only power-draw. Our reviews also grill graphics cards through 22 real-world tests across four resolutions, each, and offer price-performance graphs. When NVIDIA didn't send us a GeForce GTX TITAN-Z sample, we didn't care. We didn't make an announcement like this. At $2,999, it was just a terrible product and we never wished it was part of our graphs. Its competing R9 295X2 could be had under $700, and so it continues to top our performance charts.

The R9 Nano, on the other hand, has the potential for greatness. Never mind the compact board design and its SFF credentials. Pull out this ASIC, put it on a normal 20-25 cm PCB, price it around $350, and dual-slot cooling that can turn its fans off in idle, and AMD could have had a GM204-killing product. Sadly, there's no way for us to test that, either. We can't emulate an R9 Nano on an R9 Fury X. The Nano appears to have a unique power/temperature based throttling algorithm that we can't copy.

"Fiji" is a good piece of technology, but apparently, very little effort is being made to put it into the hands of as many people as possible (and by that we mean consumers). This is an incoherence between what AMD CEO stated at the "Fiji" unveil, and what her company is doing. It's also great disservice to the people who probably stayed up many nights to get the interposer design right, or sailing through uncharted territory with HBM. Oh well.
Add your own comment

759 Comments on AMD Radeon R9 Nano Review by TPU...Not

#226
remixedcat
AquinusYou sir, have been successfully trolled. I think you missed the reference to our resident extremist AMD fanboy.

I asked if all he knew was to personally insult people. Second sentence said I'm sick of the bullshit not the personal attacks. I'm tired of Sony running his f*****g mouth, that's all.
maam ha ha I'mm a lady cat :)

and hahahaha I just noticed sorry :P
Posted on Reply
#227
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
remixedcatmaam ha ha I'mm a lady cat :)

and hahahaha I just noticed sorry :p
Sir is a generic pronoun for me, I don't tend to attach it to a gender. I guess I really should be saying ma'am though. :p A lot of women I know hate being called ma'am though.
Posted on Reply
#229
abundantcores
cadavecaThat doesn't matter. They hold intellectual property that will keep them afloat. They've actually been doing good the past few years in my books, but a certain CEO decided to not focus on mobile products (for which he got fired), and that has left them in the state they are in now.

Not reviewers. It's their CEOs, and their marketing.

Nice try though. Still doesn't explain why they decided to not send me chips, and thereby minimizing their exposure...

AMD CPU reivews here on TPU, done by me:

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Preview/

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/FX-8350_Piledriver_Review/

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/A10-6800K/

If I wanted to take your way of saying things... oh look at the date since I've done a review... oh, look, that time period matches when you say they have been having issues... maybe they should have kept ME happy? Maybe their lack of sending me samples fucked them over, and now they are paying the price?

NOw here again we have an issue of not sending samples... whose fault is that?

A..M...fukin..D.
All good reviews....... and i will repeat:
abundantcoresI think TPU are one of the better reviewers, i don't think they are unfair to AMD and they tend to stay out of all the mud slinging on both sides, i also like the large list of games they test and the combined results at the end.
Maybe they haven't sent you anything new because they don't actually have anything new to send you? having said that maybe you need to change that attitude apparent in the last few sentences if you want them to send you Zen next year?

What do you mean by "They hold intellectual property that will keep them afloat" ? that isn't stopping them from losing vast amounts of money, money they no longer have to lose as its all gone.

So what are you suggesting? that they sell their IP? Wouldn't you agree that for AMD to start selling IP is the same as them going out of existence? whose going to buy CPU and GPU technologies? Intel and Nvidia, with that AMD's existence would be totally at the mercy of Intel and Nvidia, and what then when the money from those sales runs out and Intel, Nvidia own everything while AMD have nothing?

You think their IP will save them?

You know what. if it comes to that i would rather AMD gave it away to some one like Samsung and close up shop.
lilhasselhofferWe've moved on from one form of stupidity, to a conversation I think is worth having.

May I pose the question as such. Is AMD trying to market their brand in an entirely new way, or better yet are they competently marketing the brand?



I'd like to offer the following. I occasionally (upon release of new product lines) get e-mails from Nvidia about their latest and greatest cards. I never seemed to get those e-mails from AMD, until the 3xx series cards had a date. In the last three months I've been inundated with requests to follow AMD on Twitch, where they'd be giving away a brand new card after you were forced to watch somebody stream with it.

AMD has limited the amount of people who were offered Fury and Nano samples. You can argue this as AMD being paranoid, but it seems to be a stupid point. Nvidia have said that they won't release an HBM1 powered card, because of a severe limitation on the available stock and the memory limits. This is the company that proudly released a nearly 1600 USD card, that could be outperformed by an SLI setup with cards that were 1/2 the price and less. If you're willing to place that kind of albatross around your neck, yet still pass on HBM1, what does that say about the maturity and availability of HBM1?

Is AMD pricing themselves out of the game? It seems that way, but only because of incompetence of message. Nvidia can put the 970 (340ish USD), 980 (520ish USD), and Titan Z (1600ish USD) into a generation and "win." AMD on the other hand offers the 380 (200ish USD), 390 (320ish USD), and the Fury (650ish USD). Rather than focus on the high resolution benefits of the current product stack, or perhaps working with a B or C level studio to get a competent DX12 coded game onto the market to demonstrate their technological prowess, AMD are demonstrating the fact that they offer an excellent price to performance ratio (even if the performance per watt is not great). While that does get you something, the reality is that it doesn't translate to sales if you aren't marketing yourself as a value brand. AMD is still trying to be the king of performance, when they could do so much better this generation by selling themselves as the king of value, which will be reaped in the next several years as DX12 actually gains traction.

Is AMD actually focused on the high-end market? I have to ask the question, because it seems like everybody fails to do so. Nvidia has released a high end card with each of the last few generations, which does nothing for most people. Realistically, gaming on a console isn't as great, but when I could have two consoles for less than your single GPU, the cost to performance is pretty screwy. Likewise, the Nano demonstrates a rather unique focus on GPU size, not on massively increased performance. If, as was posed by the OP, Nano was stretched to Fury size and the pricing was reduced what would be on offer? A card that performs very well of the price per watt metric, demonstrates a new memory technology, and might well compete with the 980ti favorably on overclocking performance. Instead, what we receive is a lackluster Fury and a massively priced Nano. It really seems like AMD targeted two traditional market segments, fired everything, and forgot that there might be someone in-between.


In short, I think AMD marketing needs to be fundamentally reworked. There's such a fundamental disconnect between what they are selling, and how they are selling it, that I can't understand how their PR doesn't go home each evening and drink themselves to sleep. Social media pressure is great for low cost items. Traditional reviews are great for higher cost items (this is why Consumer Report and Car & Driver still exist). There's a fundamental stupidity demonstrated in trying to sell one with another though. You won't see Consumer Report passing judgement on deodorant, yet Old Spice has a better marketing engine through viral videos than the objective quality of their product. AMD is trying to be both a modern PR machine, and sell an expensive product. That kind of disconnect is hurting their bottom line more than objective silence on products ever could. Either support your expensive product with traditional reviews, or sell your cheap product with social media campaigns. What you are doing now is just painful to watch.
For AMD to make better products to better compete with Intel and Nvidia they need R&D for development.

They don't have any, they are losing massive amounts of money, not making it.
Posted on Reply
#230
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
abundantcoresSo what are you suggesting? that they sell their IP? Wouldn't you agree that for AMD to start selling IP is the same as them going out of existence? whose going to buy CPU and GPU technologies? Intel and Nvidia, with that AMD's existence would be totally at the mercy of Intel and Nvidia, and what then when the money from those sales runs out and Intel, Nvidia own everything while AMD have nothing?

You think their IP will save them?
I think the only thing they can do with most of their IP is use it. Things like shader technology and x86 might have a harder time finding their way to another company. The problem is AMD has milked a lot out of GCN but, as you said, they don't have the R&D to move forward. So what do we get? The same old stuff. Not to say I don't like my 390 but, it's not a step forward. AMD has only been tweaking their stuff (like Intel has been but for different reasons,) since the failure of Bulldozer to live up to scrutiny.

AMD is stuck between a rock and a hard place and no matter how good management you get in there, the reality is that NVidia and Intel and wipe the floor with respect to R&D funding. So either someone really smart at AMD has to make a crazy breakthrough, or the ship is going to sink. I would hate to see AMD go the way of the dinosaur but, it's entirely possible that AMD is in a downward spiral that's being accelerated by poor management.

I would argue that the day AMD starting spiraling downhill was when they sold off their fabs and it has only been getting worse since. The more you outsource, the more problems you're going to have and, the slower it will be to correct them. In general, it's cheap up front, but costly down the road.
Posted on Reply
#231
abundantcores
AquinusI think the only thing they can do with most of their IP is use it. Things like shader technology and x86 might have a harder time finding their way to another company. The problem is AMD has milked a lot out of GCN but, as you said, they don't have the R&D to move forward. So what do we get? The same old stuff. Not to say I don't like my 390 but, it's not a step forward. AMD has only been tweaking their stuff (like Intel has been but for different reasons,) since the failure of Bulldozer to live up to scrutiny.

AMD is stuck between a rock and a hard place and no matter how good management you get in there, the reality is that NVidia and Intel and wipe the floor with respect to R&D funding. So either someone really smart at AMD has to make a crazy breakthrough, or the ship is going to sink. I would hate to see AMD go the way of the dinosaur but, it's entirely possible that AMD is in a downward spiral that's being accelerated by poor management.

I would argue that the day AMD starting spiraling downhill was when they sold off their fabs and it has only been getting worse since. The more you outsource, the more problems you're going to have and, the slower it will be to correct them. In general, it's cheap up front, but costly down the road.
The best thing for everyone is for someone with a lot of cash to take ownership of AMD, someone other than Intel or Nvidia because if that happens we as consumers are screwed.

Someone like Samsung, they have big ambitions in the mobile market and AMD's IP can help them in that.
Posted on Reply
#232
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
abundantcoresThe best thing for everyone is for someone with a lot of cash to take ownership of AMD, someone other than Intel or Nvidia because if that happens we as consumers are screwed.

Someone like Samsung, they have big ambitions in the mobile market and AMD's IP can help them in that.
The whole x86 license not being transferable is a thing though. Practicality also has to be weighed by law. Samsung can't simply acquire AMD and expect to get all of its IP. It doesn't work that way for all licenses.
Posted on Reply
#233
abundantcores
AquinusThe whole x86 license not being transferable is a thing though. Practicality also has to be weighed by law. Samsung can't simply acquire AMD and expect to get all of its IP. It doesn't work that way for all licenses.
I know, you would think that given Intel needing AMD's x86_64 as much as AMD needs Intel x86 some sort of compromise could be reached but Intel has AMD over a barrel as the contract states AMD must be under their own ownership to continue their use of x86.

There was talk a while back of AMD spinning off its GPU department, if the CPU department remains AMD with the X86_64 IP while all the other IP gets transferd with the GPU spin-off then Samsung could take it over, the X86_64 IP can come later (if Samsung want it) once that contract is up for renewal.
Posted on Reply
#234
dorsetknob
"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
abundantcoresThere was talk a while back of AMD spinning off its GPU department, if the CPU department remains AMD with the X86_64 IP while all the other IP gets transferd with the GPU spin-off then Samsung could take it over, the X86_64 IP can come later (if Samsung want it) once that contract is up for renewal.
AquinusThe whole x86 license not being transferable is a thing though.
Lets not drag that crock of shit up again its been done to almost death in other threads
lets stick to this crock of ..............................
Posted on Reply
#235
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
abundantcoresI know, you would think that given Intel needing AMD's x86_64 as much as AMD needs Intel x86 some sort of compromise could be reached but Intel has AMD over a barrel as the contract states AMD must be under their own ownership to continue their use of x86.

There was talk a while back of AMD spinning off its GPU department, if the CPU department remains AMD with the X86_64 IP while all the other IP gets transferd with the GPU spin-off then Samsung could take it over, the X86_64 IP can come later (if Samsung want it) once that contract is up for renewal.
IMO this kind of suicidal and toxic corporate behavior is usually done by companies planning to go private. Bad for investors.

AMD has Fiji, but it's almost deliberately not monetizing it properly.
Posted on Reply
#236
abundantcores
btarunrIMO this kind of suicidal and toxic corporate behavior is usually done by companies planning to go private. Bad for investors.

AMD has Fiji, but it's almost deliberately not monetizing it properly.
You're putting AMD and Investors into the same sentence? :laugh::roll::p



:fear:
Posted on Reply
#237
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
The question I have is why did JayztwoCents get one over the other review sites? I like his videos and all, but his GPU reviews are terrible compared to the others, especially TPU. It makes no sense.
Posted on Reply
#238
abundantcores
newtekie1The question I have is why did JayztwoCents get one over the other review sites? I like his videos and all, but his GPU reviews are terrible compared to the others, especially TPU. It makes no sense.
I think this has been said before in this thread, AMD are investing in Social Media Reviews and (Correct me if i'm wrong) TPU generally don't do Youtube. JayztwoCents is all over it.
Posted on Reply
#239
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
abundantcoresI think this has been said before in this thread, AMD are investing in Social Media Reviews and (Correct me if i'm wrong) TPU generally don't do Youtube. JayztwoCents is all over it.
I think this is why W1zzard wanted YouTube candidates, to get a more visible presence.
Posted on Reply
#240
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
abundantcoresI think this has been said before in this thread, AMD are investing in Social Media Reviews and (Correct me if i'm wrong) TPU generally don't do Youtube. JayztwoCents is all over it.
We're grooming a YouTuber as we speak.
Posted on Reply
#241
cadaveca
My name is Dave
EarthDogdave, you can stop lobbying for one already. :p
I don't want a Nano. I want the CEO job.

And I'm not joking. I first called myself ATI's #1 fanboy, then it was AMD's #1 fanboy, when AMD bought ATI (and when everyone said no way to that, I was the one saying, "All day" like Kanye.")

That's really what's wrong with AMD. They hire executives with no passion for the industry. They really need to hire me. (this is also not the first time I've said that).
btarunrWe're grooming a YouTuber as we speak.
And W1zz also made it plain with no plans for reviews. So...
Posted on Reply
#242
abundantcores
btarunrWe're grooming a YouTuber as we speak.
Looking forward to seeing him in action :) now get onto AMD about it.....
Posted on Reply
#243
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
abundantcoresLooking forward to seeing him in action :) now get onto AMD about it.....
Sneak-peak. Very early, still working on a presentation, graphics package, and other technical stuff, so don't flame us.

Posted on Reply
#244
dorsetknob
"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
btarunrWe're grooming a YouTuber as we speak.
"" OH THAT STATEMENT sounds so wrong "" snigger on certain levels
Posted on Reply
#245
abundantcores
btarunrSneak-peak. Very early, still working on a presentation, graphics package, and other technical stuff, so don't flame us.

Not bad, he's obviously reading from a script and that's hampering his camera presentation skills but a lot of potential there, he just needs more practice multitasking that :)
Posted on Reply
#246
OneMoar
There is Always Moar
cadavecaI don't want a Nano. I want the CEO job.

And I'm not joking. I first called myself ATI's #1 fanboy, then it was AMD's #1 fanboy, when AMD bought ATI (and when everyone said no way to that, I was the one saying, "All day" like Kanye.")

That's really what's wrong with AMD. They hire executives with no passion for the industry. They really need to hire me. (this is also not the first time I've said that).



And W1zz also made it plain with no plans for reviews. So...
agree hire dave

and not doing reviews on youtube is frankly stupid thats shutting your self out of a pretty large segment of users
Posted on Reply
#247
geon2k2
I wish they send me a Nano for review ... :P
I promise I'll say only nice words about them and the card.

Performance graph will rock too ... for sure the Nano will be the fastest thing my PC has ever seen :)
Posted on Reply
#248
cadaveca
My name is Dave
OneMoaragree hire dave

and not doing reviews on youtube is frankly stupid thats shutting your self out of a pretty large segment of users
I've tried broaching the subject of YouTube reviews with W1zz a few times. I had real high-end equipment including DAT decks and cameras, and full editing station (taken out of a TV studio), I've got proper media training so I know how to talk and about appearance in video, and I got the knowledge about hardware so that the videos have worthwhile content. But now the gear is sold, and I've moved into a house without the room, although if really needed I could find space to do it in. I have my own YouTube project now anyway (not tech related), and maybe more stuff in the future. Doing reviews for TPU is just a hobby (as per W1zz), and I have a family to feed. Anyone that's been on our TeamSpeak knows I can chat up just about anything. :P


AS to working for AMD, I'd not be asking for several million in remuneration, either, and had AMD taken my seriously mayn years ago, they'd have saved literal millions, and maybe had a better presence in the market. Oh well.
Posted on Reply
#249
john_
btarunrSneak-peak. Very early, still working on a presentation, graphics package, and other technical stuff, so don't flame us.

OK, the AMD part is so negative that I have to ask if the video was made after learning that you will not get a Nano.
Posted on Reply
#250
Sony Xperia S
geon2k2I wish they send me a Nano for review ... :p
I promise I'll say only nice words about them and the card.

Performance graph will rock too ... for sure the Nano will be the fastest thing my PC has ever seen :)
You know that after doing the review, you need probably to return the card to her respective owners ? :P
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment
Nov 22nd, 2024 01:57 EST change timezone

New Forum Posts

Popular Reviews

Controversial News Posts