I'm sorry to do this, but this may be lengthy. The TL;DR is that a completely objective review is impossible.




Now that's out of the way, let's dissect a TPU review.
1) Initial specifications are given for the device, and they are compared to similarly priced and specified items.
2) Unboxing is done and pictured.
3) The device is stripped, and pictured.
4) The testing conditions are set, and defined.
5) A slew of games is tested at various resolutions, and the FPS is graphed (graphs compare aforementioned "similar" devices).
6) Power consumption is logged and graphed.
7) Fan noise is measured and graphed according to a strict and defined test system.
8) Performance summaries are tallied. I'm counting this as one section, because it's all calculated based on previous data, despite spanning multiple pages and graphing all of the information.
9) Overclocking results and figures.
10) Other factors that aren't standard to all reviews. Sometimes this is observations on technology, sometimes it's an opportunity for the author to digress and explain why something was done.
11) Conclusions.


What do we have to remove in order to be 100% non-biased?
1) Can't keep this. You arbitrarily choose a few items that are "similarly" specified in both camps. You can only compare offerings from one camp in an unbiased situation, as demonstrated by the AMD vs. Intel 4 core CPU debacle.
2) This is unbiased. You could argue pictures can be biased, but the shots are generally without bias.
3) Same as 2.
4) Can't do this. You've set a testing condition that not everyone can duplicate with their current hardware. This is a bias that basically means reviewing is impossible.
5) See 4.
6) See 4.
7) The card you receive isn't representative of 100% of the cards on the market, and the test rig isn't representative of most consumers. It is therefore biased.
8) See 4.
9) Silicon lottery. You've only got one sample, so your figures are biased by a sample size insufficient to represent the product line as a whole.
10) Extra information, that's a severe bias based upon what the author is thinking.'
11) By nature, a biased summary of all figures.


What an "unbiased" review would be is the pictures of what came in the box, and the pictures of the card. As a review, that's a pretty crappy piece of information to judge a product like a GPU with.

Anyone asking for 100% unbiased reviews either doesn't understand what they are asking for, or their justification of what unbiased means would result in a 1000 page manual of data that the average consumer would find absolutely useless. Heck, people are still running cards back to the 2xx (Nvidia) and 6xxx (AMD) generation. If those cards still have some market presence why aren't they on every review? Even the various custom board and cooler option should be explored, because they make differences on the performance, and most definitely the performance per dollar. What you are asking for is a flood of information, which negates the purpose of a review.

Addressing some concerns, the review conditions aren't realistic. Absolutely true. You don't have the same rig as the tester. If you do have the same rig, you don't have the same exact cards. Barring some magical coincidence of having the same hardware, you've still got software and environmental conditions to deal with. In case you missed it, this means that scientifically speaking these reviews aren't 100% reproducible. The thing is, it doesn't matter. Sadly, testing has a margin of error that some people continue to forget. The test showing AMD beat Nvidia by 2 frames in one game, then lost by 3 in another, actually show they are equal performers. Additionally, not all games are created equal. There's plenty of software out there which Nvidia has had a large hand in creating. "The way it's meant to be played" is a phrase any older gamer should know. For these games you'll likely never have an AMD product perform as well as a similarly specified Nvidia card. Demonstrating this performance in a review isn't being biased, only showing the impact less than competitive business practices can have. It's the same drum Red Team fans banged upon when the async shaders testing came out, with AMD in a huge lead. Nvidia did the dumbest thing possible and tried to have these results buried. The results of these tests are not biased, and the reason they were conducted was real world application and not the bias of the author.


Put shortly, AMD isn't distributing these to everyone for a good reason. It isn't bias, because that's demonstrably a crappy premise. It isn't a history with media outlets, because they've stated that samples of these products are in extremely short supply. What we've got is AMD trying to craft a social media PR war against Nvidia. They're choosing outlets that address the technologically ignorant masses, where data doesn't trump cool factor. They're trying to get this product out the door as something that PR sells, well in advance of hard numbers. I honestly believe this is AMD admitting that Fiji isn't a home run. It might be a solid runner on base, but they're not selling Fiji as that, nor are they focused on the future with DX12. AMD is trying to get a PR win because they've got a small form factor and good performance with a new technology. I believe the phrase is "desperation play," and not "victory lap." We love you AMD, but you've really got to see that this is cutting off your nose to spite your face. A $650 card isn't an impulse buy, and trying to sell it on social media frames it as such.

Who is the target demographic AMD? It isn't common people, because a console is cheaper and works from the moment you plug it in. It isn't enthusiasts, who drool over the numbers. It isn't gamers, who a long time ago agreed to large cases to fit the GPUs they needed into them. Heck, it isn't even the HTPC market, because that price tag is just painfully high. AMD is trying to manufacture a new market, and I just can't see it.

..and then you have people like me that painstakingly make every condition the same no matter what access point I test... I even purchase new replacement hardware that is the SAME rather then getting something better for the price. Case-in-point edimax ac600 adapter dies... instead of getting something better for the test rig for the same price I get the same thing for consistency.

What's ironic is that these AMDRTP twitters are only getting a Nano so they talk about it; the fact of the matter is they likely talked about it extensively without having the Nano. There is little to no difference between them having it and not having it other than tweeting pictures.

I wonder what percentage of buyers look at resources like TPU before making the decision on buying graphics card. I also wonder what percentage people buy the card based only on having seen it in social media. Like I said: Beats. Beats also focuses on the latter so they can sell $10 headphones for $200. The former call out the latter's bullshit but the market doesn't seem to care or Beats would be a dead brand. I really hate the fact that AMD is shifting from "product sells itself" marketing platform to "sell the brand" marketing platform but I also have to admit that the latter may translate to far more sales--be it a good product or not.

I got a love-hate AMD relationship right now. I still love their cards but hate the fact they are giving up on people like me whom cares about benchmarks. All I know for sure is that this move by AMD feels disrespectful to me and their product.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is AMD throwing a hail Mary pass. They're asking ridiculous money for the Nano (like Beats), they're not giving it to anyone that's going to thoroughly test its performance (like Beats), and they're trying to get big social media names to promote it (like Beats). This clearly appears to be an experiment by AMD to sell products for far more than their worth. If it works, it might save AMD for another year or two. If it doesn't work, well AMD's already screwed.

I fear for the long-term implications--specifically the cost. If AMD is going to start selling cards for double what they're worth, NVIDIA will likely do the same. Suddenly we become the victim of mass marketing. We end up paying twice as much when there really is no alternative. This bodes poorly for PC gaming.

I'm pretty sure AMD's Nano experiment will fall flat on its face. The fact AMD went there is revolting to me.

amd only sells bc it's cheap and they can make more profit off a cheaper product and hype it up like beats.

This, the blogger thing, if true is freaking hilarious. If you have to build up suppositions as we are, AMD are definitely cherry picking review sites.
To bypass well established reviewers to give to, as @remixedcat says, soccer mum types is an absolute indictment that AMD is lying about Nano.
The Fury X reviews pretty much globally revealed AMD's PR launch info to be untrue and now it's doing damage control by controlling its PR.
So I ask all those AMD people here clamouring to defend the company, isn't this sort of 'control' exactly what Nvidia gets a hard time for?
AMD, so virtuous they need to hide from reviewer scrutiny....

Slow clap required.

I don't think AMD is lying but they deliberately aren't saying how bad the thermal throttle is. I think AMD looked at the price they have to sell Nano for ($500+ because it's a Fiji) and decided that if people had to buy it based on performance (<390X), no one would (e.g. go with much cheaper 970 ITX). That sent them scrambling for a different way to sell it and it appears they settled on the Beats model.

I think AMD knows they're not going to get many enthusiast sales. I think that's also why performance reviews will be nonexistent until a reviewer buys the card and benchmarks it on his/her own dime.

LOL 380 comments :B





pd. i cant way for nano.¬¬

FordGT90Concept...
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is AMD throwing a hail Mary pass. They're asking ridiculous money for the Nano (like Beats), they're not giving it to anyone that's going to thoroughly test its performance (like Beats), and they're trying to get big social media names to promote it (like Beats). This clearly appears to be an experiment by AMD to sell products for far more than their worth. If it works, it might save AMD for another year or two. If it doesn't work, well AMD's already screwed.

I fear for the long-term implications--specifically the cost. If AMD is going to start selling cards for double what they're worth, NVIDIA will likely do the same. Suddenly we become the victim of mass marketing. We end up paying twice as much when there really is no alternative. This bodes poorly for PC gaming.

I'm pretty sure AMD's Nano experiment will fall flat on its face. The fact AMD went there is revolting to me.

I'm pretty sure that no correction is needed.

The problem is that Beats by Dre is sold as such. Dr. Dre is cashing in on his reputation, and putting out a product that is marginally better than the mass produced $10 model, but priced several orders of magnitude higher than that.

Believe it or not, I think this is as close to "learning" from Nvidia and Intel as AMD will ever come. They've presented an experimental product, decreased the possible iterations of said product which can hit the market (to my knowledge partners aren't allowed to make their own), and purchased glowing reviews by choosing idiots to review them.

I call these people idiots, but that may not be fair. I am an idiot when it comes to reviewing cars. I am an idiot when it comes to reviewing fine dining. Likewise, these people are idiots when it comes to reviewing GPUs. Having the product sold to the masses, before reality can set in, is largely AMD waging PR war.


I'm hoping this is a Hasbro style war for PR, that will raise brand awareness before pumping out an awesome new product. Arctic Islands hopefully will be an excellent product, that washes away the third rehash of this process node. That, of course, would require AMD to understand this is stop-gap PR. Based upon previous idiocy....let's just say that I'm not buying AMD stock any time soon.

lilhasselhofferThe problem is that Beats by Dre is sold as such. Dr. Dre is cashing in on his reputation, and putting out a product that is marginally better than the mass produced $10 model, but priced several orders of magnitude higher than that.

So... JayzTwoCents is supposed to be Dr. Dre?


:lovetpu:

:pimp:

AMD missed popular recognition by not having forced more branding in the console market. I understand the gerneal focus and direction where AMD is headed, but it was poorly executed over the past 5 years.


But by no means does this mean that AMD will go under. That'll only happen when they stop paying wages. Kickstarter can fix that these days, in case you guys forgot about things like that. So the executives leave, and it goes back to just a few engineers. Do you really think they couldn't pull off a kickstarter campaign?

A "keep AMD alive" Kickstarter? I don't know about me but would you pledge?

lilhasselhoffer.They're choosing outlets that address the technologically ignorant masses, where data doesn't trump cool factor. They're trying to get this product out the door as something that PR sells, well in advance of hard numbers.

This is without a doubt the most valid statement I've seen in the entire thread. I hold the very same view and have done for a long time.

I can't add anything, other than I'm 39yo and over the years periodically come in contact with companies and individuals using a similar PR model.
I'm acutely aware of how it works, and tbqfh I think it's disgusting. These people have no ethics or integrity, it all goes out the window. Personally I couldn't stomach it.


This is in no way a jab at AMD alone, I'm talking in general terms here, Nvidia are as bad, just without the hype. Remember when Hybrid SLI was dropped like a hot potato on Nforce?
The unsold platforms still had to be moved so it was kept quiet, at the same time Nvidia promoted the feature on their site, knowing full well consumers wouldn't be able to use it with Vista.

Any company with product to move could be guilty....but unlikely Fisher & Pykel are gonna have youtube video review or powerpoint slides on the latest Fridge Freezer range..........if you get me. :)


May as well mention youtube is the last place I'd visit for a GPU, CPU or any other type of hardware review.
Even with sites I trust it really depends on who actually tested the hardware......call me particular. :P

FordGT90ConceptI was referring to torn_tv. Dat header pic...wow.

I think I can already sum up his review: "it is AWESOME! #MakeItNano" :shadedshu:

Yeah, a true AMD fan indeed. AMD throwing every Nano they can to the AMDRTP cult members to try and persuade the public.
Seriously, how sad is it when a guy with 400 followers get a Nano but a professional unbiased site like TPU with tens of thousands of viewers is cut of from getting a sample? Pathetic

Yeah, lol at his header. Nope, nothing biased here :banghead:

FordGT90ConceptThere's not much point. The 3## series are rebrands from 2##. The only difference is a slight clock bump and maybe more memory. Example: see a benchmark that includes 290X, add 10% to its performance, and that's about where the 390X will be.

the54thvoidThis is the problem. The 390 isn't new. It's a tweaked 290X. It's the whole reason why we're pissed we wont get a Nano review. We want reviews of new products - not Rebrands. Truth is , AMD only has 3 new ones and they're all the same core (Fiji, Fiji shader hobbled or Fiji TDP hobbled). At least we have GM 204 and GM200. And there are tonnes of variations. There are ONLY AMD Fiji products and initially it was very few 390's as well (though it's more now as AIB's realise they wont be making money from non existent Fury's).

Don't get me wrong the 950 release recently was utterly 'meh'.

Even they are rebrand cards, they are not excatly the same. The power consumption is better than the old ones and the memory is good for the future. I really like the review of the ASUS Radeon R9 Fury STRIX 4GB on TPU, but that's it what you can find here. There are other cards of the fury and the 390 series that like to be reviewed, for the noise or the design..

the54thvoidOxide is currently working with Nvidia over the Async feature. Maxwell 2 uses Asynchronous Warp Schedulers but the driver allocates the queue to the AWS. So Nvidia will have a software managed hardware level implementation, not an emulation.

Gotta remember Async was and is an AMD tech that was in mantle. So likely nvidia didn't have much time any with it ahead of time. Hence why AMD cards do a lot better with it since they had it for 1+year.

CloudfireAMD rather give R9 Nano samples to unknowns like this blogger instead of respectable reviewers like TechPowerUp, TechReport or HardOCP. :shadedshu:

Yup, this is AMD trying to BS the community by delaying the truth to be revealed. Shame on you AMD



AMD obviously has far less driver work required and can use its ACE instead. But that's OT.

Pcper got one and they are not unknowns. But if a lot of people are bloggers that have little in terms of creditbility then most those reviews will stay unknown less AMD push's them which probably will happen.

FordGT90ConceptI don't think AMD is lying but they deliberately aren't saying how bad the thermal throttle is.

Go back to the 290 cards at launch how bad those thermals were and how bad the card throttle

lilhasselhofferThe problem is that Beats by Dre is sold as such. Dr. Dre is cashing in on his reputation, and putting out a product that is marginally better than the mass produced $10 model, but priced several orders of magnitude higher than that.

Another company comes to mind like that, they happen to be ones that Bought Beats. crApple

CloudfireSeriously, how sad is it when a guy with 400 followers get a Nano but a professional unbiased site like TPU with tens of thousands of viewers is cut of from getting a sample?

he has 1100 follwers not 400

pr0fessorMy favorite Site to read, hasn't got the most interesting AMD Graphic card for a while! I would suggest to test some more of the latest AMD Products like the R9 390 I was looking for, instead of tons of GTX 980 Ti from every brand.

The site can only review what is offered by the IHV/OEM/AIB/AIC. Or are you under the impression that enthusiast tech sites are so awash with cash that they can afford to just shop for hardware to review?
If you believe this to the case, you're sadly mistaken. As a tech site features writer myself, I can assure you that the tech writing business isn't a short cut to wealth and prosperity.

If you're bitching about the lack of cards being reviewed, I'd suggest a strongly worded email to the AIB's concerned.

FordGT90ConceptWhat's ironic is that these AMDRTP twitters are only getting a Nano so they talk about it; the fact of the matter is they likely talked about it extensively without having the Nano.

Yeah, but they are going in BATTLE....they're on a MISSION, because that's how AGENTS roll

[Not pictured: Secret decoder ring}

Such garbage. I think AMD deluded themselves into thinking "Red Team Plus" is a good market strategy. Now I'm pretty much hoping Nano falls flat on its face because AMD deserves punishment for this abhorrent display of stupidity.

AMD's market strategy should begin and end with courting OEMs to implement their products. OEMs don't give a shit about ATI/AMD Ruby nor Twitch streamers, nor Twitter followers. Seeing Nano's price, I suspect OEMs are flipping the bird at AMD.

Coming soon to a campus near you: How to Destroy a Business 101, presented by Dr. Lisa Su. *slow clap*

FordGT90ConceptSuch garbage. I think AMD deluded themselves into thinking "Red Team Plus" is a good market strategy.

You're talking about a company whose primary marketing focus for Bulldozer was a comic that put AMD's insecurity on show for the whole world a handful of people to see.....for a series primarily aimed at the enterprise sector....what's deluded about that? :laugh:

One question TechpowerUP where are your ashes of the singularity Benchmarks?

ahh nvidia was not good enough so you didn't try!

ampreOne question TechpowerUP where are your ashes of the singularity Benchmarks?

I don't believe W1zzard has ever reviewed and benched alpha builds. Why would he start now?

Because it's the first introducion of DirectX 12 and leaded to this monstrous thread\discussion:
www.overclock.net/t/1569897/various-ashes-of-the-singularity-dx12-benchmarks/2420

Where is any Information about nvidia have main dx12 Featurs only simulated on Software without any Hardware acceleration!

FordGT90ConceptSuch garbage. I think AMD deluded themselves into thinking "Red Team Plus" is a good market strategy. Now I'm pretty much hoping Nano falls flat on its face because AMD deserves punishment for this abhorrent display of stupidity.

It would be like Motor trend asking Ford to have one the Ford employee's to do a review of the ford f150 for their magazine.

ampreOne question TechpowerUP where are your ashes of the singularity Benchmarks?

its an Alpha game that is long way from over so using those results and making claims based on a game that probably isn't gonna be out for what 6-12months is kinda waste of time.

Making a big deal outta it seems like AMD PR at work IMO for one few things they seem to have an advantage in. So til game hits final should take results so far with a grain of salt to an un-optimized game.

ampreOne question TechpowerUP where are your ashes of the singularity Benchmarks?

ahh nvidia was not good enough so you didn't try!

TPU doesn't bench that many games. RCoon does but it's not his full time job so there are many games missed. As @HumanSmoke says, TPU doesn't generally bench unfinished games.

Still, it's good to see AMD disciples popping in to register accounts just to post replies that are

a) moronic
b) insecure
c) pointless
d) reinforcing the notion that AMD fans are simpering little children, no better than the egotistical Nvidia zealot.

Yeah, nice entrance there kid

EDIT: You type just like Sony. How amusing or telling.

Only a real kid knows a other kid!

Go home and tell your mom!

Tell me where is the article about Nvidia is missing dx12 key Features in the Hardware?

You cant answer the54thvoid because you are a brain washed Person!

Maybe you think you have a watercooling System it makes you an gpu architecture expert?
I love this selfmade heroes, which think they are the greatest and have no Argument!

ampreOnly a real kid knows a other kid!

Go home and tell your mom!

Tell me where is the article about Nvidia is missing dx12 key Features in the Hardware?

You cant answer the54thvoid because you are a brain washed Person!

Maybe you think you have a watercooling System it makes you an gpu architecture expert?
I love this selfmade heroes, which think they are the greatest and have no Argument!

you mean missing a key AMD made feature? That probably was locked out to nvidia til after maxwell was finalized.

What makes you a gpu arch expert?

1st off Async isn't required part of DX12, 2nd off don't know how many dev's will even use it outside ones AMD pays off to use it.

asyncronus compute is not an amd Feature it's a Feature for the future and the next Logical step for make the gpu more parallel for better feed the shader.

I'm not an expert, but i can understand what experts are saying!