Sunday, November 6th 2016

NVIDIA Telemetry Spooks Privacy-sensitive Users, How to Disable it

Over the past few versions of NVIDIA GeForce drivers, the company has been bundling a telemetry tool that is enabled by default, auto-runs on Windows startup by default, and doesn't appear in the list of things you can choose not to install, when doing a custom-installation with NVIDIA GeForce driver installers. Very little is known about this new Telemetry component. For all we know, it could be a means for NVIDIA to collect crash-reports that help it improve its drivers down the line. Not everyone is convinced with this explanation.

Spanning across three separate startup tasks (a bit much for a crash reporter?), Telemetry is allegedly a means for NVIDIA to send data "back and forth." Users that are the privacy equivalent of germ-freaks might see this as a means for NVIDIA to spy on its users, for a plethora of data, such as usage patterns, etc. MajorGeeks posted a brief tutorial on how to disable Telemetry (and other bloatware included in NVIDIA drivers), using Sysinternals, but you can use Task Manager, msconfig, or Registry Editor to disable these as well.
Source: MajorGeeks
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69 Comments on NVIDIA Telemetry Spooks Privacy-sensitive Users, How to Disable it

#26
RejZoR
I've actually mentioned this stuff in Task Scheduler quite some time ago. I just never bothered to inspect what the entries were...

I think one telemetry that every graphic card maker should use is:
- OS version
- graphic card model
- driver version

Such telemetry can tell you a lot of things, like what OS, graphic card and driver combination your users are using. This way you can prioritize things, know what people use most and drop support when number of users for one falls below some very low value. Instead of dropping it based on estimations and not actual data, avoiding pissing off existing users or wasting resources on drivers, graphic card or even OS no one uses anyway.
Posted on Reply
#27
TheOne
NVIDIA's response on their latest GFE forum thread.

forums.geforce.com/default/topic/974556/geforce-experience/geforce-experience-update-3-1-0-52-feedback-thread/post/5014090/#5014090
GeForce Experience collects data to improve the application experience; this includes crash and bug reports as well as system information needed to deliver the correct drivers and optimal settings. NVIDIA does not share any personally identifiable information collected by GeForce Experience outside the company. NVIDIA may share aggregate-level data with select partners, but does not share user-level data. The nature of the information collected has remained consistent since the introduction of GeForce Experience 1.0. The change with GeForce Experience 3.0 is that this error reporting and data collection is now being done in real-time.
NVIDIA's response in a thread in their driver section is exactly the same.

forums.geforce.com/default/topic/975330/geforce-drivers/seems-the-new-nvidia-telemetry-spying-policy-is-a-great-hit-/post/5014091/#5014091

For some reason they don't mention anything about the reported installation on Win8+ and Win10 without GFE.
Posted on Reply
#28
bug
Just checked my Win10 running 375.63 and no telemetry stuff to be found. But I've never installed GeForce Experience either.
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#29
TheOne
I maybe mistaken, but didn't they remove GFE in 375.63?
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#30
bug
TheOneI maybe mistaken, but didn't they remove GFE in 375.63?
They did. I was just saying, this thing seems to be in the GeForce Experience part, not in the driver's installer.
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#31
TheOne
NVIDIA seems to be implying that it's just GFE, but RTB and others seem certain-ish, that it's installing without GFE, might require the GFE files that are missing in 375.63, to many conflicting users.
Posted on Reply
#32
birdie
The Quick Poll results are obviously big lies: over 95% of TPU subscribers run Windows 10 which is one big privacy invasion.

Double standards all day long, lying scumbags. Shame on you.

Let's have a quick poll on Your primary Windows OS:
  • Windows 10
  • Windows 7
  • Windows 8
  • Windows Vista and earlier
Why "primary Windows OS"? Some of us may have alternative OS'es installed (CentOS for me), some of us may have two or more Windows versions installed concurrently.
Posted on Reply
#33
Xzibit
TheOneNVIDIA seems to be implying that it's just GFE, but RTB and others seem certain-ish, that it's installing without GFE, might require the GFE files that are missing in 375.63, to many conflicting users.
375.63 isnt the latest driver it had to be Hotfix. Even the latest official recently got hotfix. There might be a variation with drivers due to the frequent hotfixing and installing methods.
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#34
syrup
birdieThe Quick Poll results are obviously big lies: over 95% of TPU subscribers run Windows 10 which is one big privacy invasion.

Double standards all day long, lying scumbags. Shame on you.
I'm sure you've got Windows 10 and/or GeForce users who:

- Do have an issue with telemetry, but aren't convinced it's intrusive enough to justify avoiding the software.

- Do have an issue with telemetry, and do accept the most extreme claims about its intrusiveness, but this is still outweighed by the disadvantages of avoiding the software.

- Do or did have an issue with telemetry but were keen to use the software and weren't able to handle the cognitive dissonance, so they supressed their telemetry concerns either universally, or in this specific instance.

- Have concerns about telemetry, but don't see any harm in this context (e.g. believe it'll only be used for purposes they consider benign, such as product improvement, marketing strategies...).

- Simply don't have any issue with telemetry of any kind (e.g. "it sends them a list of all my passwords and all my files? so what?!").

- Switch between several of the above positions depending what day of the week it is.

Add to that individual nuances and perhaps even people who don't fit any of the above.
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#35
R-T-B
P4-630I also had GFE installed and disabled this shit saturday, I'm on windows 8.1.

GFE will do it with any OS. Driver bundles only with 10, and only with driver bundles that include Geforce experience (even though you unchecked it).

In short, it's complicated, but it's very possible to get this without wanting it or Geforce Experience.
Posted on Reply
#37
R-T-B
lorraine walshAnd also only if you install GeForce Experience.
No. It can happen without it. I've documented this.
birdieDouble standards all day long, lying scumbags. Shame on you.
Nope. I'm completely morally consistent here, sorry. Read my reasons why on this threads twin. There are plenty of ways one can be opposed to telemetry in the display driver and not the os(though actaully, I'm opposed there too and always have been). Nice try though. The "scumbags" line was a nice emotional play.
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#38
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
Guess everyone will just gave to buy amd.
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#39
64K
cdawallGuess everyone will just gave to buy amd.
Let's not resort to drastic measures here. Just keep calm and use your head people. There must be some way to blame this on AMD. :p
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#40
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
64KLet's not resort to drastic measures here. Just keep calm and use your head people. There must be some way to blame this on AMD. :p
Obviously nvidia had to see if people really were searching for information on Polaris. Next step is hardware level blocking so people can't see amd.
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#41
OneMoar
There is Always Moar
you would need to have some serious mental stability issues to consider AMD
nobody in there right mind should buy ANYTHING with a AMD made chip
Posted on Reply
#42
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
OneMoaryou would need to have some serious mental stability issues to consider AMD
nobody in there right mind should buy ANYTHING with a AMD made chip
The bigger issue is GloFo AMD has proven they can make some bomb video cards. I can't wait until we see some more of these 95w TDP RX480's on the market and I hope the 490 can follow suit.
Posted on Reply
#43
lexluthermiester
R-T-BNot true. I was the one who originally posted this and have since confirmed it false with a fresh install of 375.70.

I want to see a wireshark of this shit (and not just false reddit claims of one)... though it's likely encrypted.
Sorry, you are incorrect. I also use custom install options and exclude GFE. Just looked at my driver setup, and the telemetry is not present. Looked in the startup entries and the registry, also not present.

NVidia is not so stupid as to pull a Microsoft and go behind peoples backs like that. We would roast them for it!
Posted on Reply
#44
Fluffmeister
lexluthermiesterSorry, you are incorrect. I also use custom install options and exclude GFE. Just looked at my driver setup, and the telemetry is not present. Looked in the startup entries and the registry, also not present.

NVidia is not so stupid as to pull a Microsoft and go behind peoples backs like that. We would roast them for it!
Nvidia get roasted regardless, mainly by AMD users, which is odd and funny at the same time.
Posted on Reply
#45
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
FluffmeisterNvidia get roasted regardless, mainly by AMD users, which is odd and funny at the same time.
Most of the people complaining had nvidia cards captain assumption. One of the few people arguing for them has amd.
Posted on Reply
#46
Fluffmeister
cdawallMost of the people complaining had nvidia cards captain assumption. One of the few people arguing for them has amd.
We thank you for concerns, captain drama queen.
Posted on Reply
#47
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
FluffmeisterWe thank you for concerns, captain drama queen.
Is this a joke? You literally posted a flaimbaiting call out and I'm the drama queen...
Posted on Reply
#48
lexluthermiester
cdawallMost of the people complaining had nvidia cards captain assumption. One of the few people arguing for them has amd.
Ya, gonna have to agree with the fluffmeister. You're being a drama queen and showing a lack of maturity.

The reality of the Radeon VS Geforce debate is that it is effectively a moot point. The Geforce and Radeon product lines have been in a literal performance tug of war for nearly 2 decades[longer if you count the Rage3D and RivaTNT lines]. Each have had ups and downs, successes and failures. One would make an advance and claim the crown of "performance king". Then the other would do the same and it continues to go back and forth to this day. The ultimate reality is that both product lines have excellent value.

Personal preference is the deciding factor for many purchases. I personally prefer the Geforce driver package methodology. However I have also owned Radeon cards and am impressed with AMD's recent product lines and reshaping of their driver packages.

For anyone on either side of the debate to say the opposite is crap is little more than fanboy engaging in mud throwing. But to say you prefer one VS the other for reasons that have logic and merit to the user in question is a better position. I am an Nvidia user, but have no ill will to AMD or their users. I am very appreciative and and even grateful for them because without them there would be little competition and Nvidia would likely become lazy and product quality would degrade.

So can we dispense with the nitwited drama and 1up-manship?
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#49
Prima.Vera
My bigger concern is not on privacy, but on how much/many resources this real-time telemetry is pulling? And I'm talking about CPU, RAM, GPU even network bandwidth. Anyone knows some numbers?

Also some interesting comment from an user on nVidia forums:
The common reaction to companies that gather telemetry is that it is being done anonymously, but there is more to it than just gathering data.
I do believe that it is being done with the best intentions and to gather data to improve Nvidia's products.
We live in an era where people become more educated in what data gathering really means and how it potentially can be used for totally other purposes under local rule of law of the country where data is being gathered and stored.

First of it's about the telemetry data set that in itself can be fully anonymous, but this same data set is not anonymous anymore when you combine this with the data set of the connection it is gathered from and the server that is used to store data on. These TWO data sets together are NOT anonymous. It represents the full profile of a digital identity. This extends towards local OS account information that the data gathering service is running on.

It is also important in what country this data is being gathered from. For instance in America there is The Patriot Act that allows for active data screening and storage as a 3rd party that is along for the ride in the background.
Be very aware that this law only reflects on Americans and the American continent and any non-American should not in any way a subject to it. The rest of the planet did not vote or does have any true influence on this kind of regulation. When Nvidia's telemetry data server is within the American borders the authority is allowed to confiscate this data kind of when the wish to. To many of us this is beyond absurd.

Since 2013 the United Nations had adopted resolutions that say privacy around the gathering of data is basic human right. These resolutions are backed by at least 167 UN member states.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/DigitalAge/Pages/DigitalAgeIndex.aspx


However, while these basic rights exist there are countries that continue to violate these basic human rights with their own ideas with law for their own subjects that include surveillance and interception of communications. The great nation of America is one of those countries unfortunately and there's a digital fish net in place that gathers all this data.
This means that data from non-American citizens is being collected illegally.
The whole world knows that this happens right now as we speak and every non-encrypted presumed anonymous data set that really is not anonymous is being gathered even through Nvidia's telemetry service.

There are still ways to keep all of Nvidia's customers happy with keeping all this in mind. It does mean that this whole system needs to be allot more innovative than it is right now.
First of all the data must be send encrypted. It's already being send through SSL on port 443 so encryption is possible.
Second, the data must be stored on an encrypted database to secure this data in case of unlawful breach.
Third, the data server must be in a country where the government can't just walk in and demand the telemetry data sets as well as the storage server data set. For instance in the Switzerland data center at CERN under Swiss Federal Data Protection Act (DPA) and the Swiss Federal Data Protection Ordinance (DPO) which offers some of the strongest privacy protection in the world for both individuals and corporations.

My dearest Nvidia, i would like to kindly request to you to look into this very seriously and be one of those big companies on this planet that truly gives a damn about basic human rights.

So there are a few questions that i as a customer would like to ask you:

1. What data specifically is being gathered?
2. When not installing Nvidia Experience is data still being gathered?
3. Is there a way to opt-out from data gathering?
4. Is the data being send fully encrypted to avoid 3rd parties to copy the data while it's being send?
5. In which country is the data being stored?
6. Is the data server and the data stored encrypted in case of breach?
7. Who are these "select partners"?

It is time for change Nvidia and it is now also up to you to be a partner in that revolution that cares about their customers.
As i said before i am sure that your intentions are to do good for all of us in the long run and together we must make sure that it stays this way.

I had this same run-in with Electronic Arts regarding the gathering of user data and OS telemetry through Origin. The program does offer an opt-out selector, however a bug let these options reset on every startup and it is even questionable if they even stop data being gathered at all.
Their response to it was the recent change of their EULA saying it was not being shared with 3rd parties, which is a bust to begin with, and literally stating that if you do not want data to be gathered than you should not install the software. That is hardly what it should be and it is the cheap customer unfriendly way out.

I truly hope Nvidia is more intelligent than that, because i love your company and i love your products.

Please forward this reaction to the general management. Thank you.
Posted on Reply
#50
lexluthermiester
Prima.VeraMy bigger concern is not on privacy, but on how much/many resources this real-time telemetry is pulling? And I'm talking about CPU, RAM, GPU even network bandwidth. Anyone knows some numbers?
Privacy needs to be a concern for everyone. Thanks for the quote from the Nvidia forums.

To answer your question, if it is not running, it is not using system resources. Simple as that. As the picture in the OP shows, you can run the Autoruns manager in the "Sysinternals Suite" to check if it's running and disable/delete it if found. The suite can be found here; technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb842062.aspx
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