don't want to live without low-level performance optimization in their games

What a load of BS.

This sounds like you cannot create high performance games using D3D11 and OpenGL however multiple comparisons show that absolute most D3D12 games barely reach the performance of their D3D11 counterparts.

birdieWhat a load of BS.

This sounds like you cannot create high performance games using D3D11 and OpenGL however multiple comparisons show that absolute most D3D12 games barely reach the performance of their D3D11 counterparts.

that is because most games with dx12/vulcan are doing things in much the same way as the older api. unfortunately game devs need to relearn how to do most things to get the best out of the new api, which will not happen soon. no new api has been as big of a break from the norm as this one.

the older api were more evolution built on the last, adding new features to fill the holes where the last had a weakness. while dx12 and vulcan are much more like a revolution, a totally new approach. dx11 for example is not able to run parts on gpu 0 and others on gpu 1, which if the devs wanted they can now with these new api. this is also why nvidia and amd are not pushing their multi gpu tech any more as they know it is going to be more dependant on the devs than any driver tweaks they can do.

vega22that is because most games with dx12/vulcan are doing things in much the same way as the older api. unfortunately game devs need to relearn how to do most things to get the best out of the new api, which will not happen soon. no new api has been as big of a break from the norm as this one.

the older api were more evolution built on the last, adding new features to fill the holes where the last had a weakness. while dx12 and vulcan are much more like a revolution, a totally new approach. dx11 for example is not able to run parts on gpu 0 and others on gpu 1, which if the devs wanted they can now with these new api. this is also why nvidia and amd are not pushing their multi gpu tech any more as they know it is going to be more dependant on the devs than any driver tweaks they can do.

^ also aren't the current DX12 titles just DX11 ports to DX12 anyways? Pretty much eliminating any benefit of dx12...

I tested this game and it runs max 24 fps on rx 460 not worthy to buy.

ReadlightI tested this game and it runs max 24 fps on rx 460 not worthy to buy.

At what settings, with what additional hardware, with what clock on the card?

And old Athlon processor... on a game meant to take advantage of multi-core rendering....

ReadlightI tested this game and it runs max 24 fps on rx 460 not worthy to buy.

Cause you're playing the game maxed out on an RX 460, budget card, there's your problem.

SteevoAt what settings, with what additional hardware, with what clock on the card?

And old Athlon processor... on a game meant to take advantage of multi-core rendering....

That cpu can not handle games where are lots of teselation lots off staff and lighting.its litle beter than pentum4
All depends how good game is made i think.

I torrented this game and uninstalled it after 5m playing.

ReadlightThat cpu can not handle games where are lots of teselation lots off staff and lighting.its litle beter than pentum4
All depends how good game is made i think.

You use weak hardware on a demanding game and say its not worthy to buy? You're looking at this so backwards.

Might as well use a bike to tow a semi trailer.

ToothlessYou use weak hardware on a demanding game and say its not worthy to buy? You're looking at this so backwards.

This game is not worthy to buy because it is pretty average, if not bad. As a game, that is.
But it's a very good playable engine demo, so if someone is more attracted by effects than by the story/experience, AoS is a great choice...

So in a way I do understand the former comment, i.e. it's just 24 fps and not worth. Because if your hardware doesn't let you benefit from the visual advantages of this engine, there isn't much else.

I remember playing TES:Oblivion on Intel IGP few years ago. I played at low setting and it was still dropping to maybe 10fps during some fights and visual-intensive scenes. I completed that game 3 times on that PC.

notbThis game is not worthy to buy because it is pretty average, if not bad. As a game, that is.
But it's a very good playable engine demo, so if someone is more attracted by effects than by the story/experience, AoS is a great choice...

So in a way I do understand the former comment, i.e. it's just 24 fps and not worth. Because if your hardware doesn't let you benefit from the visual advantages of this engine, there isn't much else.

I remember playing TES:Oblivion on Intel IGP few years ago. I played at low setting and it was still dropping to maybe 10fps during some fights and visual-intensive scenes. I completed that game 3 times on that PC.

I remember when I thought 20fps was good on my GT220. Still bought games even though I was way below minimum spec but never tied the experience with the frame.

birdieWhat a load of BS.

This sounds like you cannot create high performance games using D3D11 and OpenGL however multiple comparisons show that absolute most D3D12 games barely reach the performance of their D3D11 counterparts.

When you just slam DX12/Vulkan on a game while essentially doing a DX11 features, you're not really benefiting anything. But properly coded DX12 and Vulkan games ALWAYS showed higher performance. So, best to complain to crappy game devs and not at features/API' offered to them...

I am not sure about crappy developers , DX12/Vulkan are simply tough to work with.

ToothlessI remember when I thought 20fps was good on my GT220. Still bought games even though I was way below minimum spec but never tied the experience with the frame.

I remember when I played the first F.E.A.R. on my GeForce 7300 GS... Back in the day, I didn't know much about hardware, thought that card was mid to high tier, was pretty happy. At the time, I reduced rendering resolution to 800*600 so I could pump up effects, and played as it was. I don't even know what framerate I was playing at (I imagine my minimum was at 12 FPS or something...) but I didn't find it marred my experience much. Shows what I knew :laugh:

Now, the most minimal stutter wrecks my nerves and immersion :banghead: We've all been spoiled.

birdieWhat a load of BS.

This sounds like you cannot create high performance games using D3D11 and OpenGL however multiple comparisons show that absolute most D3D12 games barely reach the performance of their D3D11 counterparts.

By nature, low level APIs are only as good as their programmer. Just because they can be many times better than DX11 (and yes, they can) doesn't mean they will be in practice. You need a skilled coder at the lowest level. These are not common nor cheap.

R-T-BBy nature, low level APIs are only as good as their programmer. Just because they can be many times better than DX11 (and yes, they can) doesn't mean they will be in practice. You need a skilled coder at the lowest level. These are not common nor cheap.

Everyone developing game engines should be perfectly capable of working with lower level functionalities , they have been doing this since since ever actually , just not on every platform. The issue is time , time is the biggest enemy to these programmers , not their lack of skill. At least if we are talking about big AAA studios.

The industry is in a very tight spot actually , for the last decade or so there has been a huge push for high-overhead maximum productivity software. There is a very good reason why that happened , you simply cannot get things done anymore with the typical developing cycle nowadays without that. Pushing them back to work the same way they did when games were no where as complex but within the same amount of time is heinous regardless of their skill. I suspect MS will back off a little with DX12 in it's current form and reiterate on it with something else , because this is clearly not working as smoothly as they hoped.

I am on Windows 7 and if i try to run the game with vulkan instead of DX11 the game just crash it cant even start up

Am i doing something wrong?

There are zero graphics programmers/engineers in this thread or maybe one (just not me). Most comments are pure :facepalm:

D3D12/Vulkan don't magically make your games faster even if you coded for this API from the get go. They give you better control over the GPU while requiring a lot more work. The do not magically mean higher performance.

Vya DomusEveryone developing game engines should be perfectly capable of working with lower level functionalities , they have been doing this since since ever actually , just not on every platform. The issue is time , time is the biggest enemy to these programmers , not their lack of skill. At least if we are talking about big AAA studios.

The industry is in a very tight spot actually , for the last decade or so there has been a huge push for high-overhead maximum productivity software. There is a very good reason why that happened , you simply cannot get things done anymore with the typical developing cycle nowadays without that. Pushing them back to work the same way they did when games were no where as complex but within the same amount of time is heinous regardless of their skill. I suspect MS will back off a little with DX12 in it's current form and reiterate on it with something else , because this is clearly not working as smoothly as they hoped.

As a former game developer, I guess I'm not "everyone"

With the advent of high level languages like .net and Java, you may be surprised to learn what coders today don't know...

R-T-BWith the advent of high level languages like .net and Java, you may be surprised to learn what coders today don't know...

Oh , I am very well aware of that. I know of a lot of people that have jobs as coders but still cannot get their heads around things like pointers. Which is amazing , however the reason for that is that their jobs do not require them to know much with regards to lower level functionalities.

But graphics is one the most difficult areas of computer science , you can't get around without possessing some serious knowledge. Sure there might be people that aren't that skilled working for lesser studios that are having trouble with these new APIs. But people working at big studios for big publishers , nah they know their shit , they're just really constrained by deadlines and such.

Vya DomusBut graphics is one the most difficult areas of computer science , you can't get around without possessing some serious knowledge.

I really hope this is a lapsus or at least a serious simplification...

shilkaI am on Windows 7 and if i try to run the game with vulkan instead of DX11 the game just crash it cant even start up

Am i doing something wrong?

This hapens only in doom game.

shilkaI am on Windows 7 and if i try to run the game with vulkan instead of DX11 the game just crash it cant even start up

Am i doing something wrong?

Whats your GPU?

ReadlightThis hapens only in doom game.

I have seen this happen but I dont think thats the case anymore and it seems to come down to your gpu more then anything else

MelvisWhats your GPU?



I have seen this happen but I dont think thats the case anymore and it seems to come down to your gpu more then anything else

An EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2