Thursday, September 7th 2017

Do Inflated AMD Radeon GPU Prices Have an Official Sanction?

Sep 7th, 2017 06:18 Discuss (100 Comments)

Over the past couple of months, inflation in AMD Radeon GPU prices, in part fueled by silicon shortages, and in part by non-gamers (read: crypto-currency miners) buying up graphics cards, have impacted the AMD Radeon brand in the eyes of its target audience - PC gamers and graphics professionals. It was initially believed that market forces are driving the inflation, and that AMD had little to do with the price inflation. We then uncovered a clue that not just end-users, but even retailers are being sold AMD Radeon graphics cards at prices way above AMD's launch SEP. A Tweet by an official AMD Twitter handle shows that inflated AMD Radeon graphics card prices has the company's official sanction.

"@AMDGaming," a verified Twitter handle held by AMD, which promotes the company's products targeted at gamers, such as AMD Radeon graphics cards, and Ryzen processors; posted a promotion in which an XFX branded Radeon RX 570 graphics card, which is being sold at USD $279, including a free coupon for a "Quake Champions" pack free, was made to appear as if at its price, it's a great deal. The RX 570 was launched at USD $169 for the 4 GB variant, and $199 for the 8 GB variant. The XFX Radeon RX 570 4 GB RS (the card being marketed in the Tweet) was launched at $179. The Tweet was met with angry reactions for how blatantly AMD was marketing price-inflated Radeon graphics cards, without actually doing something about taming the prices.

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100 Comments on Do Inflated AMD Radeon GPU Prices Have an Official Sanction?

#51

Xzibit

efikkanGTX 1060-1080 Ti have been available around the MSRP, I've built several computers with these cards. Aib cards start around MSRP, as usual.

If you look back at PCPerspective they have a podcast each week. They were still commenting a month after launch that you couldn't find a card for the MSRP. They were several rumors also about gouging and shortages as well during that launch. Not as dramatic as these ones but the overall sentiment was acceptance of the market mark-up.

#52

INSTG8R

Vanguard Beta Tester

theoneandonlymrkWhat and that had no effect on Aib cards????? Or the pricing of what it replaced????

Exactly It basically upped the whole price scheme a "bracket" and set a new precedent that even AMD is now using with the same consequences.

#53

Nokiron

john_Just a quick reply. When I post an opinion I will always say probably. Others think that everything they post it must be cast in stone. Me, I leave it to the reader, to either read that probably as an honest opinion, or as a change to use it to discredit that opinion.
I like also how you come to conclusions about what I mean.

The end.

PS(really john_? after the end? :p ) You quoted me, with multiple conclusions and questions about what I meant. And no, I wasn't putting this on you. One more of your conclusions. NO "probably" here, just another conclusion/fact of yours.

You seem to assume everyone should know all the caveats of your posts. That's a real vague way of wafting away others opinions.

And now you are assuming things about me, what a hypocrite.

"The end."

#54

TheoneandonlyMrK

INSTG8RExactly It basically upped the whole price scheme a "bracket" and set a new precedent that even AMD is now using with the same consequences.

Exactly thi

SlizzoNo, it didn't. The FE cards were still very clearly priced well above the partner cards.

I bought my GTX 1080 G1 Gaming for $649. MSRP of GTX 1080 was $599, FE was $699. There you go: partner card, with custom cooler, and custom PCB was smack dab in the middle of those two price points.

Daydream on mate , day one sales I'd guess since after day one the price of Aibs escalated.
As they always do.

#55

dyonoctis

The launch price of pascal was aligned performance wise to the previous gen. The 1060 was nowhere near 960 price, but the jump in performance was huge, same for the 1070. It wasn't really a bad deal, getting 980 speed for 970 price. But yhea you can't hide the fact that Nvidia took the most profitable road for them.
Amd started his bad communication back then too: the RX480 was presented as a 199€ vr gpu, but that was only for the 4Gb version, who wasn't even official. Remember the 4Gb Rx480 with 8gb that you could unlock ? That was brilliant.

XzibitI find these Headline grabbers comical.

For the past months since the GPU prices have been inflated you could go to AMD site click SHOP and it links to external selling with current market prices.

That's pretty much all the research you needed to do and could say the exact same thing, That current market prices are AMD sanctioned.

Whats the difference. Well pointing it out then prior to Vega launch wont give you the headline grabber it does now.

The difference is that the AMD shop is pretty much an index that's automated, meanwhile a message on twitter, and facebook is something with a human being behind.

"Sanctionned" might be a strong word, but seeing post like this is so stupid:
twitter.com/Radeon/status/905798234328764417
That looks like a bad joke, but it's very real, and does nothing but harm the company. Even if XFX and bestbuy are partner they shouldn't push AMD to post stuff like this. NO ONE in their right mind is going to buy this card for gaming at this price. Whoever gave the ok for something like this need to rethink his career choice because this is dumb, and that's why "sanctionned" come to mind because it's hard to believe that they would such a bad mistake. The first tweet was already poorly received, and hours after they are doing the same thing ?

#56

Kaotik

XzibitI find these Headline grabbers comical.

For the past months since the GPU prices have been inflated you could go to AMD site click SHOP and it links to external selling with current market prices.

That's pretty much all the research you needed to do and could say the exact same thing, That current market prices are AMD sanctioned.

Whats the difference. Well pointing it out then prior to Vega launch wont give you the headline grabber it does now.

Actually it doesn't say they're "AMD sanctioned" - the fact of the matter is that AMD has literally no way to control the prices.

#57

Xzibit

dyonoctisThe difference is that the AMD shop is pretty much an index that's automated, meanwhile a message on twitter, and facebook is something with a human being behind.

"Sanctionned" might be a strong word, but seeing post like this is so stupid:
twitter.com/Radeon/status/905798234328764417
That looks like a bad joke, but it's very real, and does nothing but harm the company. Even if XFX and bestbuy are partner they shouldn't push AMD to post stuff like this. NO ONE in their right mind is going to buy this card for gaming at this price. Whoever gave the ok for something like this need to rethink his career choice because this is dumb, and that's why "sanctionned" come to mind because it's hard to believe that they would such a bad mistake. The first tweet was already poorly received, and hours after they are doing the same thing ?

So no advertising during escalated market pricing.

As a consumer I agree as a business why not. If people are buying products at those prices why not.

Besides no-ones batting an eye that its a link to Best Buy offering this which i just find amusing.

KaotikActually it doesn't say they're "AMD sanctioned" - the fact of the matter is that AMD has literally no way to control the prices.

Oh i understand but i was just using it as an example how mischievous one can be correlating things to make a headline for click bait.

#58

cadaveca

My name is Dave

KaotikThe fact of the matter is that AMD has literally no way to control the prices.

Actually, they very much do have the ability to control pricing, just like many other brands do with their products. Cell phones and consoles are pretty much the same price in retail stores by region, because the product maker demands it. Manufacturer-imposed conditions such as pricing are sanctioned by the FTC.

LINK for veracity:

www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed

The first paragraph:

Reasonable price, territory, and customer restrictions on dealers are legal. Manufacturer-imposed requirements can benefit consumers by increasing competition among different brands (interbrand competition) even while reducing competition among dealers in the same brand (intrabrand competition). For instance, an agreement between a manufacturer and dealer to set maximum (or "ceiling") prices prevents dealers from charging a non-competitive price. Or an agreement to set minimum (or "floor") prices or to limit territories may encourage dealers to provide a level of service that the manufacturer wants to offer to consumers when they buy the product. These benefits must be weighed against any reduction in competition from the restrictions

Based on launch information, that's what AMD seemed to be implying to the public, that the listed prices were governed by contract. Turns out, that's not the case, I guess. Whether someone pursues AMD for giving out false information that affected stock prices remains to be seen. ;)

And I can safely say that AMD might be liable here because they gave out all that info about wanting to make sure gamers could get GPUs, and the packages, etc...

Based on local supply of VEGA, clearly these cards are set at uncompetitive prices, IMHO.

#59

Gasaraki

KaotikSeriously what the f is up with TPU news? Do you do any actual research on the matters?
There is literally nothing AMD can do about the prices, after AIB buys the chips or even full cards from AMD, it's out of their hands - they can set MSRPs, but no-one has to follow them, and there's nothing AMD (or any other company) can do about it.

Only way to actually prevent this would be stop selling GPUs to AIBs (yes, prices are inflated already coming from AIBs) and make and sell all the cards yourself, which is really just not an option.

What do you mean "what the f*** is up with TPU news"? This is news, what do you want TPU to do, change the story to make you happy? Or maybe they shouldn't even report it.

#60

R0H1T

cadavecaActually, they very much do have the ability to control pricing, just like many other brands do with their products. Cell phones and consoles are pretty much the same price in retail stores by region, because the product maker demands it. Manufacturer-imposed conditions such as pricing are sanctioned by the FTC.

LINK for veracity:

www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed

The first paragraph:
Reasonable price, territory, and customer restrictions on dealers are legal. Manufacturer-imposed requirements can benefit consumers by increasing competition among different brands (interbrand competition) even while reducing competition among dealers in the same brand (intrabrand competition). For instance, an agreement between a manufacturer and dealer to set maximum (or "ceiling") prices prevents dealers from charging a non-competitive price. Or an agreement to set minimum (or "floor") prices or to limit territories may encourage dealers to provide a level of service that the manufacturer wants to offer to consumers when they buy the product. These benefits must be weighed against any reduction in competition from the restrictions
Based on launch information, that's what AMD seemed to be implying to the public, that the listed prices were governed by contract. Turns out, that's not the case, I guess. Whether someone pursues AMD for giving out false information that affected stock prices remains to be seen. ;)

And I can safely say that AMD might be liable here because they gave out all that info about wanting to make sure gamers could get GPUs, and the packages, etc...

Based on local supply of VEGA, clearly these cards are set at uncompetitive prices, IMHO.

The dealer you're referring to could well be someone like an Ingram Micro, you know very well that they don't sell products directly via retail.
There's also MSRP which as the name suggest is manufacturer suggested retail price, the maker can't fix pricing. I don't know if that's illegal but retailers always dictate the final price at which any items sells.
Unless you're someone like Apple who could in theory undercut the competition (other retailers) since they also sell stuff on their own, making them stick to the price they want their products to sell at.

#61

dyonoctis

XzibitSo no advertising during escalated market pricing.

As a consumer I agree as a business why not. If people are buying products at those prices why not.

Besides no-ones batting an eye that its a link to Best Buy offering this which i just find amusing.

Oh i understand but i was just using it as an example how mischievous one can be correlating things to make a headline for click bait.

You can't do business without thinking of your image. Customers don't like being taken for a fool, and saying that a 4gb RX570 at 279$ is a great buy, is taking them for a fool. Jaytwocent who is a popular tech youtuber, and gamer nexus both commented those tweets and said that this in no way a great buy. If that was a global escalated market pricing that would have been another story, but because there is currently a better product for the same price, well...
Anyone buying this gpu for gaming must be poorly informed. Miners are the only one who could find this appealing.

#62

cadaveca

My name is Dave

R0H1TThe dealer you're referring to could well be someone like an Ingram Micro, you know very well that they don't sell products directly via retail.
There's also MSRP which as the name suggest is manufacturer suggested retail price, the maker can't fix pricing. I don't know if that's illegal but retailers always dictate the final price at which any items sells. Unless you're someone like Apple who could in theory undercut the competition (other retailers) since they also sell stuff on their own, making them stick to the price they want their products to sell at.

Oh, I agree, I was just trying to point out that there are legal ways for pricing to be controlled by the manufacturer.

#63

TheoneandonlyMrK

cadavecaActually, they very much do have the ability to control pricing, just like many other brands do with their products. Cell phones and consoles are pretty much the same price in retail stores by region, because the product maker demands it. Manufacturer-imposed conditions such as pricing are sanctioned by the FTC.

LINK for veracity:

www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed

The first paragraph:

Based on launch information, that's what AMD seemed to be implying to the public, that the listed prices were governed by contract. Turns out, that's not the case, I guess. Whether someone pursues AMD for giving out false information that affected stock prices remains to be seen. ;)

And I can safely say that AMD might be liable here because they gave out all that info about wanting to make sure gamers could get GPUs, and the packages, etc...

Based on local supply of VEGA, clearly these cards are set at uncompetitive prices, IMHO.

Except your perception is squed by your local , I'd agree if i were in your exact shoes but im not, i could post that ocuk add again i can still buy vega for 20£ under MSRP.
You can't and that's bad i get it , blame the guy gouging though and in both vegas and this case it's the shops

dyonoctisYou can't do business without thinking of your image. Customers don't like being taken for a fool, and saying that a 4gb RX570 at 279$ is a great buy, is taking them for a fool. Jaytwocent who is a popular tech youtuber, and gamer nexus both commented those tweets and said that this in no way a great buy. If that was a global escalated market pricing that would have been another story, but because there is currently a better product for the same price, well...
Anyone buying this gpu for gaming must be poorly informed. Miners are the only one who could find this appealing.

Whatever , but the facts are Amd didn't say it a seller/retailer did ,And i doubt Amd would ever say anything other than there's is the best solution anyway or should they be saying nvidias a better deal??? That would seam odd no??

Miners don't want 4Gb cards anymore and they certainly wouldn't want multiple copies of the same free games which also Jack the price up, think about it.

#64

Xzibit

dyonoctisYou can't do business without thinking of your image. Customers don't like being taken for a fool, and saying that a 4gb RX570 at 279$ is a great buy, is taking them for a fool. Jaytwocent who is a popular tech youtuber, and gamer nexus both commented those tweets and said that this in no way a great buy. If that was a global escalated market pricing that would have been another story, but because there is currently a better product for the same price, well...
Anyone buying this gpu for gaming must be poorly informed. Miners are the only one who could find this appealing.

You sure about that?

If that was the case escalated pricing across the board Nvidia and AMD wouldn't exist. Nothing outside initial stock which is gone in seconds would not sell. The reality is people buy something cause they want it and can afford to. If not it sits on the shelf and prices comes down.

#65

dyonoctis

theoneandonlymrkExcept your perception is squed by your local , I'd agree if i were in your exact shoes but im not, i could post that ocuk add again i can still buy vega for 20£ under MSRP.
You can't and that's bad i get it , blame the guy gouging though and in both vegas and this case it's the shops

Whatever , but the facts are Amd didn't say it a seller/retailer did ,And i doubt Amd would ever say anything other than there's is the best solution anyway or should they be saying nvidias a better deal??? That would seam odd no??

Miners don't want 4Gb cards anymore and they certainly wouldn't want multiple copies of the same free games which also Jack the price up, think about it.

I've never implied that they should promote Nvidia product. In the first post that I've made in this thread, I said that they should avoid to share those kind of sales, and just stay quiet. XFX and bestbuy can tweet them all they want if they really wish to, But AMD shouldn't, They didn't even retweeted a tweet made by xfx or bestbuy first, they actually made their own tweet for this, and as you can see nothing good come from this. TPU isn't the only one saying that it's dumb, all the AMD, radeon followers are saying that this is bad. I've stutied marketing and digital communication at school, and i can tell you that what they just did isn't good.

Amd may have done a lot of money from the mining scene, but they are in a bad situation in the gaming market because of that, while the pricing isn't something that they can control, the communication is.

XzibitYou sure about that?

If that was the case escalated pricing across the board Nvidia and AMD wouldn't exist. Nothing outside initial stock which is gone in seconds would not sell. The reality is people buy something cause they want it and can afford to. If not it sits on the shelf and prices comes down.

I wanted to buy a rx 570 4 gb to replace my R 270x. When i saw the price I just decided to get a gtx 1060 who was a better buy. And I'm an amd guy. I can understand people going irrational for vega since it's a special product. But the RX 570 who's a budget product ? Are you saying that I have too much faith in humanity ?

#66

StrayKAT

EarthDogSorry, what?

Maybe if there was some competition in the space a higher intial pricepoint would have been lower. But yeah, this was the lrice, period, vs amds bait and switch pricing they didnt tell reviewers about...

This actually made me come out of lurkmode. I must be out of the loop. In my day, tiers were determined by software. And I can throw just about anything at 1080 and get good performance. Hell,the same goes for a 1060 6gb. I can run any current game like a DOOM or a Tomb Raider (sans hairworks) at ultra 60fps 1080p and people now call that lowend. Very confusing.

#67

TheoneandonlyMrK

StrayKATThis actually made me come out of lurkmode. I must be out of the loop. In my day, tiers were determined by software. And I can throw just about anything at 1080 and get good performance. Hell,the same goes for a 1060 6gb. I can run any current game like a DOOM or a Tomb Raider (sans hairworks) at ultra 60fps 1080p and people now call that lowend. Very confusing.

Look teirs existed since almost the beginning and were initially based on binning , because thats what set apart the two to three Sku's from a manufacturer then both started making multiple asics with at least two teirs each and they all competed thus until Nvidia released the Gtx680 fact, at that point nvidia changed the game with multiple asics and Sku's because they could fair enough but that's how it rolled.
At what point software took over i have no idea.
And GPUs didn't progress alone ,At the low res scale even 1080p needs oomph for some to have thier ultra high fps fix and were on the edge if consumer 8K ,I have two 4k screens ,maybe get back in the loop :)

#68

StrayKAT

theoneandonlymrkLook teirs existed since almost the beginning and were initially based on binning , because thats what set apart the two to three Sku's from a manufacturer then both started making multiple asics with at least two teirs each and they all competed thus until Nvidia released the Gtx680 fact, at that point nvidia changed the game with multiple asics and Sku's because they could fair enough but that's how it rolled.
At what point software took over i have no idea.
And GPUs didn't progress alone ,At the low res scale even 1080p needs oomph for some to have thier ultra high fps fix and were on the edge if consumer 8K ,I have two 4k screens ,maybe get back in the loop :)

I'll get back in the loop when gpu prices stabilize again :p That said, I still include consoles in this whole estimate. To me, that's the true low end. If the majority of software is still targetting it, it should count. If PC gaming was in a vacuum, sure the 1060 is low end. But it's not and it's actually pretty good, considering.Most games still aren't pushing beyond the capabilities of a 1060 yet.

#69

EarthDog

StrayKATThis actually made me come out of lurkmode. I must be out of the loop. In my day, tiers were determined by software. And I can throw just about anything at 1080 and get good performance. Hell,the same goes for a 1060 6gb. I can run any current game like a DOOM or a Tomb Raider (sans hairworks) at ultra 60fps 1080p and people now call that lowend. Very confusing.

Maybe it was best being a fly on the wall? :p

I wasn't really talking tiers, just the inflated pricing in general. :)

#70

StrayKAT

EarthDogMaybe it was best being a fly on the wall? :p

I wasn't really talking tiers, just the inflated pricing in general. :)

I may just sink back, yeah :p But in any case, this AMD drama is interesting to read. I'm trying not to get mad about it. Hopefully the market is better by Christmas. If not then, AMD won't get my custom for quite a while at least.

#71

Casecutter

I not sure what the fuss is about?
An AMD person/account just point a "card" is on the market... Is it healthy overpriced well no da! AMD can't control retail price it a free market.
Still it is really stupid-dumb on their part to promote/say in the text the price. Had the picture had the price and Best Buy logo, and his caption said "Need a GPU! Check Best Buy includes the Quake Champion Pack Free! I'd see no problem.

What AMD needs to be doing is promoting the ASUS, Lenovo, and other boutique builds like Maingear, that are selling Ryzen platforms with Vega's and Polaris that give a game packs and aren't marking up much! I mean AMD and OEM partners should be dumping AMD systems with reference GPU's, and AMD would be right to promote that side more aggressively.

I mean you can get a Ryzen 5 1600/B350 w/Wraith, 8Gb Ram, and the 580 8Gb all built out in a case for about a $1060 with a bunch of game packs (even Maingear t-shirt) and it ships 9/25/17. While sure if you scrape and played around you could build it for 800'ish without the OS.

That's what AMD need to be promoting!

#72

timta2

john_Just a quick reply. When I post an opinion I will always say probably. Others think that everything they post it must be cast in stone. Me, I leave it to the reader, to either read that probably as an honest opinion, or as a change to use it to discredit that opinion.
I like also how you come to conclusions about what I mean.

The end.

PS(really john_? after the end? :p ) You quoted me, with multiple conclusions and questions about what I meant. And no, I wasn't putting this on you. One more of your conclusions. NO "probably" here, just another conclusion/fact of yours.

I get so tired of seeing this, everywhere it seems, these days, so I had to say something. You can't post something you claim to be a fact, ad a "probably", and then later say it was "opinion", when you're called out on it being factually wrong. Facts can't be opinions and vice versa.

"Also Digitimes' article was posted in the 1st of September and probably was having info specifically for Nvidia cards. Maybe too many green images to be posted here?"

#73

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

NokironSo you are just guessing? You seem to have problems with criticism against AMD.

They still represent AMD as a whole, that's what they are hired for.

Well it seems most here on the site seem to have an issue with Criticism with NVIDIA and always try to denounce and minimalize the wrongs they have committed against the consumer/pro.

#74

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man

You write this article like supply and demand isn't a thing... If people are buying your product in droves, you're an idiot not to try and raise prices and maximize profit. It doesn't really matter who is buying it.

#75

StrayKAT

AquinusYou write this article like supply and demand isn't a thing... If people are buying your product in droves, you're an idiot not to try and raise prices and maximize profit. It doesn't really matter who is buying it.

Is there really demand for a weaker, or to be generous, equal, gpu for higher prices? Gamers are a pretty stupid demographic, but I'm not sure they're that stupid. Especially pc gamers who are a bit shrewd. And especially AMD owners who go there for value in the first place. Their whole schtick has been "weaker or equal" but a good price/performance ratio. Take it away and demand drops.

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