Saturday, March 8th 2025
China Develops Domestic EUV Tool, ASML Monopoly in Trouble
China's domestic extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography development is far from a distant dream. The newest system, now undergoing testing at Huawei's Dongguan facility, leverages laser-induced discharge plasma (LDP) technology, representing a potentially disruptive approach to EUV light generation. The system is scheduled for trial production in Q3 2025, with mass manufacturing targeted for 2026, potentially positioning China to break ASML's technical monopoly in advanced lithography. The LDP approach employed in the Chinese system generates 13.5 nm EUV radiation by vaporizing tin between electrodes and converting it to plasma via high-voltage discharge, where electron-ion collisions produce the required wavelength. This methodology offers several technical advantages over ASML's laser-produced plasma (LPP) technique, including simplified architecture, reduced footprint, improved energy efficiency, and potentially lower production costs.
The LPP method relies on high-energy lasers and complex FPGA-based real-time control electronics to achieve the same result. While ASML has refined its LPP-based systems over decades, the inherent efficiency advantages of the LDP approach could accelerate China's catch-up timeline in this critical semiconductor manufacturing technology. When the US imposed sanctions on EUV shipments to Chinese companies, the Chinese semiconductor development was basically limited as standard deep ultraviolet (DUV) wave lithography systems utilize 248 nm (KrF) and 193 nm (ArF) wavelengths for semiconductor patterning, with 193 nm immersion technology representing the most advanced pre-EUV production technique. These longer wavelengths contrast with EUV's 13.5 nm radiation, requiring multiple patterning techniques to achieve advanced nodes.
However, this Huawei system must still answer questions about resolution capabilities, throughput stability, and integration with existing semiconductor manufacturing flows. However, commercializing an alternative EUV lithography tool will challenge ASML's position. ASML's latest High-NA EUV tool costs around 380 million US Dollars. No matter the cost for Chinese R&D centers, the Huawei EUV machine will deliver the much-needed upgrade path for the older DUV scanners, which previously limited domestic chip production. Despite China's development of solid IP, its manufacturing progress was limited, but it could experience a "DeepSeek" moment very soon. Leading fabs like SMIC are working with Huawei to integrate the EUV scanners into existing workflows. A solid semiconductor manufacturing workflow takes years to build, so we have to see what the final result will be.
Source:
Yin Sun
The LPP method relies on high-energy lasers and complex FPGA-based real-time control electronics to achieve the same result. While ASML has refined its LPP-based systems over decades, the inherent efficiency advantages of the LDP approach could accelerate China's catch-up timeline in this critical semiconductor manufacturing technology. When the US imposed sanctions on EUV shipments to Chinese companies, the Chinese semiconductor development was basically limited as standard deep ultraviolet (DUV) wave lithography systems utilize 248 nm (KrF) and 193 nm (ArF) wavelengths for semiconductor patterning, with 193 nm immersion technology representing the most advanced pre-EUV production technique. These longer wavelengths contrast with EUV's 13.5 nm radiation, requiring multiple patterning techniques to achieve advanced nodes.
43 Comments on China Develops Domestic EUV Tool, ASML Monopoly in Trouble
About competition. I doubt the Chinese will sell it abroad. If it works and if it offers advantages over ASML's machines, they will probably keep it in China and forbid selling it out of China. Except if US starts lifting it's bans, that I doubt it will happen any time soon.
and then what? Sanctions won't help when they are capable of designing their own CPU's and GPU's at this point for heavy AI work.
That's what this race is all about.
Or... perhaps the result of hard, honest work for the greater good of humanity, and nothing more, right?
ASML: Dutch chip firm says former China employee stole data | CNN Business
That's what has been said about literally every technological advance that the PRC has made that was supposedly impossible for them. The West's casual bigotry is what is allowing the PRC to eat it piece by piece.Bingo. Globalism prevents war because it creates interdependence... when you remove that interdependence, you remove the safeguards against war.Ignore the anti-PRC shills, they are really just the most braindead of bigots with zero critical thinking facilities.
And a whole new ISA would be nice too
Anyways, to reiterate what I said in a previous, related news thread: This is what some of y'all look like rn:
December 2023, Huawei "breaks the 5nm barrier"
Note that the article calls out using triple or quadruple patterning. No notation on those 5 nm chips taking twice as long to produce...but whatever.
DUV used to produce 5nm chips...with the predictable errors and slag produced due to compounding errors
So...on paper claiming 5nm chips, but using old tech with much increased production time and increased errors.
2022 patent for the tech...
Paper mills, the ban on further DUV machines, and research quality
Do I believe that China will "catch-up" to the west? No. Do I believe that they will develop some sort of lithographic tech they claim to be 5 nm, do victory laps, and find that the yields and quality of their cutting edge tech are suddenly no as good? Yeah. There is a future where China, by way of the CCP, throw enough cash at developing stuff that something manages to be produced that isn't an absolute dumpster fire. My problem with the CCP is that to make that happen they are going to have to plow 20-30x as many resources into the system to get it to come out. That isn't a guess by the way, it's the base cost, 60% skimmed directly off the top to bribe people, 20% lost on middle-man transactions, 10% lost in inefficiency, and 5% lost to people not giving a crap because the industry is too big to fail and thus getting fired means nothing as long as the numbers can be manipulated.
Do I wish ASML didn't have a monopoly? Yes. Do I believe that the CCP can develop something that competes? No.
High Speed rail. Youtube video for those who hate reading
Tofu Dregs Different source, same outcome. Also a video
C919...in all it's failure. Boeing is not doing better, so don't chalk that up to the west being better. Chalk it up to race to the bottom, cut all other manufacturers out of the market tactics as inherently hostile and idiotic: 1400 claimed ordered, 11 per year finished, and the plan is to add a second factory and get to 150 per year. Gotta love that China only list of operators. C919 failures, airbus replacement. In 2024. The oldest of these planes is two years old.
Of course, for the world's manufacturing hub you'd expect them to move some weapons. Planes...nope Why the J20 is not being sold. Naval assets? Better learn German German diesel engines for Chinese warships and subs. Yeah, Germany supplies a crap ton of Diesel engines...and when you want something that works you obviously go German.
I can spend literal hours going through this and highlighting anything complex and complicated being beyond the CCP...even if they are flush with doctorate level scholars, because the problem is not the resources. The problem is that the CCP uses them badly. That's apparently just "hate for asia" so I guess I'm a racist then. It's not like Vietnam, Taiwan, and other countries exist in Asia. It's not like the CCP is speed running through late stage capitalistic rot, without the supportive morality that prevents it (to some extent, and in a protected version of capitalism). Yeah, that paper from 2022, with a patent that probably was entirely derived from a western education or source, will absolutely make things happen. It'd be the first time in history it ever did, but I've got a good feeling that this isn't another one of the 11,000 companies that failed in 2023.
Tech insight, chip manufacturer failures in 2023
When the CCP dies, and China gets to compete as a truly peer nation, assuming there's anybody left, then the west should fear China. Until that day comes, I treat their claims as substantive as a fart in a windstorm.
Sure, they still do that, but science and technology have for long been a high focus of the country, with huge investments in education and research - something that we can't even pronounce any more. This resulted in China surpassing all other nations in number of scientists, scientific papers, patent applications... In some areas their development has overtaken Western world already, and the only tools we use to combat this is not advancing on our own, but seeking to stop their advancement or at least stop the products coming to the West, with various bans and tariffs - which of course helps lower their revenue, but ultimately this will only deepen the divide in time.
Interconnected West also has it's vulnerabilities in current climate of screwing over allies, but this is purely political - but that doesn't mean it won't have large influence in tech industry.
And what exactly failed about HSR, as in 70% of HSR in the world is failing how? Japan is failing to build HSR in both India and Vietnam but you don't seem to care.
Also who is supplying Chinese Nuclear Powered submarines, destroyers and soon carriers? Why would the Chinese be bothered with diesel? If you want ***cheap reliable outdated fossil technology***, you go German.