Friday, June 1st 2018

An ARM to Rule Them All: ARM 76 To Challenge x86 Chips in the Laptop Space?

ARM has announced their next, high-performance computing solution with their A76 design, which brings another large performance increase to the fledgling architecture. having been touted for some time as a true contender to the aging x86 architecture, ARM has had a way of extracting impressive performance increases with each iteration of its computing designs, in the order of 20% do 40% performance increases in an almost annual basis. Compare that to the poster-child of x86 computing, Intel, and its passivity-fueled 5 to 10% yearly performance increases, and the projections aren't that hard to grasp: at some point in time, ARM cores will surpass x86 in performance - at least on the mobility space.

The new ARM A76 design, to be manufactured on the 7 nm process, brings about a 35% increase in performance compared to last years' A75. This comes with an added 40% power efficiency (partly from the 10 nm to 7 nm transition, the rest from architecture efficiency and performance improvements), despite the increase to maximum 3.0 GHz clocks. With the added performance, ARM is saying the new A76 will deliver 4x the Machine Learning performance of its previous A75 design.
Adding to those CPU performance improvements, is ARM's Mali-G76 GPU solution, which also packs some 30% increases in performance density (meaning, for the same silicon footprint, added 30% performance), accompanied by 30% better energy efficiency and 2.7x increased Machine Learning performance for GPU-accelerated workloads. The new GPU architecture supports up to three execution engines per shader core, features a dual texture mapper, presents configurable 2-4 slices of L2 cache, and supports up to 20 "cores" in devices for process and workload distribution.
This combination of CPU (with the ARM A76) and GPU (with the Mali-G76) performance improvements mean that ARM is now within spitting distance of x86 solutions in the mobile space; this, and the future performance projections should ARM be able to keep its development and performance improvement pace, may be one of the reasons why Microsoft invested the way it did in adding ARM support for its Windows operating system in recent times. ARM solutions that employ Microsoft's OS do provide better battery life than their x86 counterparts, and with the latest ARM 76 improvements, which are seemingly more significant than any x86 performance and efficiency increases in recent times, may well mean a push for x86 towards higher levels of required performance, leaving the entry productivity and content consumption scenarios for ARM-powered devices and architectures.
Sources: AnandTech, Tom's Hardware
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74 Comments on An ARM to Rule Them All: ARM 76 To Challenge x86 Chips in the Laptop Space?

#26
sergionography
eidairaman1Wake me when it surpasses a core i9 or Ryzen Threadripper in x86 performance using Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB.
There is already an arm core on that level, its called AMD k12 lol. It just has no place in the market right now. From what i remember from the jim keller interview they made k12 engine even bigger than the zen cores thanks to the lower complexity of ARM allowing more die space for it.
Posted on Reply
#27
Fluffmeister
The average Joe doesn't want a laptop anyway, they can email and post all their humdrum nonsense on Facebook via their beloved phone/tablet device.

The hARM has already been done.
Posted on Reply
#28
lexluthermiester
eidairaman1Wake me when it surpasses a core i9 or Ryzen Threadripper in x86 performance using Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB.
You know that's not what they're aiming for. Although, if they did enough re-engineering I bet they could get close..
FluffmeisterThe average Joe doesn't want a laptop anyway, they can email and post all their humdrum nonsense on Facebook via their beloved phone/tablet device.
That's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap. Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I'd personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.
Posted on Reply
#30
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
lexluthermiesterYou know that's not what they're aiming for. Although, if they did enough re-engineering I bet they could get close..

That's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap. Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.
Now if laptop manufacturers would realize the importance of better cooling fans in their units...
Posted on Reply
#31
lexluthermiester
phanbuey
Love that movie! Took long enough.. ARM chips are the global top dog as there are more ARM based devices than there are X86/X64 devices. Bizarre. I wonder if this new gen of ARM chips is going to make things more interesting.
Posted on Reply
#32
Fluffmeister
lexluthermiesterThat's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap. Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I'd personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.
Who am I to question the might of your shop.

Lets hope then ARM can capitalise on this emerging laptop craze.
Posted on Reply
#33
lexluthermiester
FluffmeisterWho am I to question the might of your shop.
How about world-wide market trends of mobile device sales plateauing(and even shrinking depending on the market) for the last few years?
Posted on Reply
#34
R0H1T
lexluthermiesterThat's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap.
Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I'd personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.
You mean people are tired of phones or tablets, when they're buying a new laptop or desktop? Also would these PC buyers get a replacement or 2nd laptop/desktop anytime soon?

The mobile market is plateauing , it's not reached it's cap yet. The whole of South Asia, most populous region in the world, as well as Africa is yet to be fully tapped. So while the per unit sales is probably going down down, the overall unit sales are yet to peak.
Posted on Reply
#35
lexluthermiester
R0H1TYou mean people are tired of phones or tablets, when they're buying a new laptop or desktop? Also would these PC buyers get a replacement or 2nd laptop/desktop anytime soon?
No, I mean that people who once used a PC(desktop or laptop) or have never owned one(generally younger people) are coming in to get one so they can have a better experience with what they what to do. They tend to come back for advise and tend to share their usage habits. The general trend is that the usage balances out between mobile and PC. Honestly I didn't see this coming but it's happening more frequently.
R0H1TThe mobile market is plateauing , it's not reached it's cap yet. The whole of South Asia, most populous region in the world, as well as Africa is yet to be fully tapped. So while the per unit sales is probably going down down, the overall unit sales are yet to peak.
Good points, and I agree. For existing markets it seems the market has reached or is swiftly approaching it's cap. For emerging markets though, you're correct, this not the case.
Posted on Reply
#36
bug
RejZoRHm, but can Windows 10 run on ARM CPU as regular build used for x86 or is there a special version like Windows 8.1 RT back in the day?
Linux software usually doesn't have these problems ;)
Posted on Reply
#37
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
They have their own share of problems
Posted on Reply
#38
R0H1T
bugLinux software usually doesn't have these problems ;)
So you're saying with Linux you can create native binary for ARM compatible with x86 or something along the line?
Posted on Reply
#39
bug
R0H1TSo you're saying with Linux you can create native binary for ARM compatible with x86 or something along the line?
I'm saying compiling for different architectures hasn't been a difficulty for like twenty years now under Linux.
Binaries aren't compatible, of course.
Posted on Reply
#40
R0H1T
bugI'm saying compiling for different architectures hasn't been a difficulty for like twenty years now under Linux.
Binaries aren't compatible, of course.
So how is it different for Windows, especially with the much touted x86 emulation? I'd assume MS will further push something like this ~ www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-performance/
If they can get more performance per ARM core. I personally think Windows on ARM is a great concept, provided the performance penalty isn't too high & we get a lot more regular applications to work on these devices.
Posted on Reply
#41
Vya Domus
R0H1TI personally think Windows on ARM is a great concept, provided the performance penalty isn't too high & we get a lot more regular applications to work on these devices.
Question is , why bother with it in the first place ?
Posted on Reply
#42
R0H1T
Vya DomusQuestion is , why bother with it in the first place ?
Always on, always connected devices? Yeah I know it could be a fad.
Also the battery life, ARM chips are great for <10W TDP, in fact better than x86 chips.
Lastly price, I can't say how much a flagship ARM SoC costs, but with integrated BT, wifi & (4G) cellular connectivity it's cheaper than any other solution out there.

That last bit is very important, as many people still don't have access to wifi, free or otherwise, around the world. They'll probably be near 3G or 4G cell sites though.
Posted on Reply
#43
bug
R0H1TSo how is it different for Windows, especially with the much touted x86 emulation? I'd assume MS will further push something like this ~ www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-performance/
If they can get more performance per ARM core. I personally think Windows on ARM is a great concept, provided the performance penalty isn't too high & we get a lot more regular applications to work on these devices.
The difference, as I have already said, is that it's been done for decades and it doesn't require a Linux RT or something.
Vya DomusQuestion is , why bother with it in the first place ?
As software runs more and more in the cloud and the OS you use to consume it matters less and less, why wouldn't the architecture that runs the OS follow suit? I mean, you're already consuming using x86 on your desktop/laptop and using ARM on your smartphone/tablet. Why not take it one step further?
Posted on Reply
#44
R0H1T
bugThe difference, as I have already said, is that it's been done for decades and it doesn't require a Linux RT or something.
That's why I said x86 emulation, with it MS isn't reinventing the wheel like they did with winRT. It's practical for only a handful of tasks right now, however with enough time & momentum there's a possibility of this taking off. Remember there's rumors of ARM Macbooks as well, if Apple can pull it off then MS might be forced to, not for Apple though.
Posted on Reply
#45
bug
R0H1TThat's why I said x86 emulation, with it MS isn't reinventing the wheel like they did with winRT. It's practical for only a handful of tasks right now, however with enough time & momentum there's a possibility of this taking off. Remember there's rumors of ARM Macbooks as well, if Apple can pull it off then MS might be forced to, not for Apple though.
You lost me.
Posted on Reply
#46
R0H1T
bugYou lost me.
All I'm saying is that winRT is dead, x86 emulation is the new deal & it isn't half as bad as the last attempt by MS to get on board the ARM train. Lastly MS gets a bad rep for a lot of failed endeavors, but more often than not it's the market momentum & not necessarily the merits of the product which decides its fate. Like Zune or Windows phone vis-à-vis ipod & Android.

Apple's doing something similar & they have enough $ to pull it off. MS just needs to back this long & hard.
Posted on Reply
#47
bug
R0H1TAll I'm saying is that winRT is dead, x86 emulation is the new deal & it isn't half as bad as the last attempt by MS to get on board the ARM train. Lastly MS gets a bad rep for a lot of falied endeavors, but more often than not it's the market momentum & not necessarily the merits of the product which decides its fate. Like Zune or Windows phone, vis-à-vis ipod & Android.

Apple's doing something similar & they have enough $ to pull it off. MS just needs to back this long & hard.
You're saying Micorsoft's attempt will be successful this time (emulation rarely is, but whatever). I was just saying this was fixed on Linux long ago.
Posted on Reply
#48
R0H1T
bugYou're saying Micorsoft's attempt will be successful this time (emulation rarely is, but whatever). I was just saying this was fixed on Linux long ago.
If they target the right market segment & audience then yes. And yet it's still nowhere in the desktop space.
Posted on Reply
#49
bug
R0H1TIf they target the right market segment & audience then yes. And yet it's still nowhere in the desktop space.
The desktop in front of me disagrees ;) You're right, of course, Linux doesn't matter much in the desktop market. For all its strengths, it never catered to the home user.
But where I was going is, if ARM needs a solution to put their CPUs in desktops and/or laptops, they can use Linux today. Not saying they will, but they can. Interesting days ahead, regardless.
Posted on Reply
#50
R0H1T
bugThe desktop in front of me disagrees ;) You're right, of course, Linux doesn't matter much in the desktop market. For all its strengths, it never catered to the home user.
But where I was going is, if ARM needs a solution to put their CPUs in desktops and/or laptops, they can use Linux today. Not saying they will, but they can. Interesting days ahead, regardless.
You mean like chromebooks? If Google brings more Android apps to Chrome OS then yeah it could be even more interesting.
Posted on Reply
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