Monday, June 11th 2018

Intel's 28-core HEDT Processor a Panic Reaction to 32-core Threadripper

At Computex 2018, we witnessed two major HEDT (high-end desktop) processor announcements. Intel unveiled a client-segment implementation of its "Skylake XCC" (extreme core count) silicon, which requires a new motherboard, while AMD announced a doubling in core-counts of its Ryzen Threadripper family, with the introduction of new 24-core and 32-core models, which are multi-chip modules of its new 12 nm "Zen+" die, and compatible with existing X399 chipset motherboards. With frantic increases in core counts, the practicality of these chips to even the most hardcore enthusiast or productivity professional diminishes. The Computex 2018 demos reek of a pissing-contest between the x86 processor giants, with AMD having an upper hand.

The HEDT segment is intended to occupy the space between client desktops and serious scalar workstations. Intel is frantically putting together a new HEDT platform positioned above its current LGA2066 (X299) platform, built around its Purley enterprise platform, and a variant of the LGA3647 socket (this chip + your X299 motherboard is no bueno). This socket is needed to wire out the 28-core Skylake XCC (extreme core count) silicon, which has a six-channel DDR4 memory interface. The company put up a live demo at the teaser of this unnamed processor, where it was running at 5.00 GHz, which led many to believe that the processor runs at that speed out of the box, at least at its maximum Turbo Boost state, if not nominal clock. Intel admitted to "Tom's Hardware," that it "forgot" to mention to the crowds that the chip was overclocked.
Overclocking the 28-core chip was no small effort. It took an extreme cooling method, specifically a refrigerated heat-exchanger, coupled with a custom motherboard (we suspect GIGABYTE-sourced), to keep the processor bench-stable at 5.00 GHz. Intel's defense to Tom's Hardware was that "in the excitement of the moment," its on-stage presenter "forgot" to use the word "overclocked." Gregory Bryant, SVP client-computing at Intel not only omitted "overclocked" from his presentation, but made sure to stress on "5 GHz," as if it were part of the chip's specifications.

"What's amazing is that trade-off, this actually being a 5 GHz in single-threaded performance frequency and not...having to sacrifice that for this kind of multi-threaded performance, so you've got kind of the best of both worlds. So, you guys want to see us productize that thing? Tell you what, we'll bring that product to market in Q4 this year, and you'll be able to get it," he said.

Rival AMD, meanwhile, showed off its 24-core and 32-core Ryzen Threadripper II processors, with its 24-core part beating Intel's i9-7980XE 18-core chip under ordinary air cooling.

Intel used a multiplier-unlocked derivative of the Xeon Platinum 8180 "Skylake-SP" processor in this demo. The Xeon Platinum 8180 "Skylake-SP" is a $10,000 processor with a 205W rated TDP at its nominal clock speed of 2.50 GHz, with a Turbo Boost frequency of 3.80 GHz. The company achieved a 100% overclock to 5.00 GHz, using extreme cooling, and considering that TDP is calculated taking into account a processor's nominal clock (a clock speed that all cores are guaranteed to run at simultaneously), the company could have easily crossed 350W to 400W TDP stabilizing the 5.00 GHz overclock. If a 205W TDP figures in the same sentence as 2.50 GHz nominal clocks, it doesn't bode well for the final product. It will either have a very high TDP (higher still taking into account its unlocked multiplier), or clock speeds that aren't much higher than the Xeon Platinum 8180.

Consider the AMD EPYC 7601 for a moment, which is the fastest 32-core 1P EPYC SKU. It ticks at 2.20 GHz, with a boost frequency of 3.20 GHz, but has its TDP rated lower, at 180W. Now consider the fact that AMD is building the 32-core Threadripper II with more advanced 12 nm "Zen+" dies, and it becomes clear that the 24-core and 32-core Threadrippers are the stuff of nightmares for Gregory Bryant, not because AMD will make more money out of them than Intel makes out of its 28-core G-man in a football jersey, but because AMD's offering could be cheaper and more efficient, besides being fast. An overall superior halo product almost always has a spillover PR to cheaper client-segment products across platforms; and the client GPU industry has demonstrated that for the past two decades.

AMD is already selling 16 cores at $999, and beating Intel's $999 10-core i9-7900X in a variety of HEDT-relevant tasks. The company has already demonstrated that its 24-core Threadripper II is faster than Intel's $1,999 18-core i9-7980XE. It would surprise us if AMD prices this 24-core part double that of its 16-core part, and so it's more likely to end up cheaper than the i9-7980XE.

Intel cannot beat the 32-core Threadripper II on the X299/LGA2066 platform, because it has maxed out the number of cores the platform can pull. The Skylake HCC (high core count) silicon, deployed on 12-core, 14-core, 16-core, and 18-core LGA2066 processors, is already motherboard designers' nightmare, many of whom have launched special "XE" variants of their top motherboard models that offer acceptable overclocking headroom on these chips, thanks to beefed up VRM.

Coming up with a newer platform, namely revising the Purley 1P enterprise platform for the client-segment, with its large LGA3647 socket and 6-channel memory interface, is the only direction in which Intel could have gone to take on the new wave of Threadrippers. AMD, on the other hand, has confirmed that its 24-core and 32-core Threadripper II chips are compatible with current socket TR4 motherboards based on the AMD X399 chipset. It's possible that the next wave of TR4 motherboards could have 8-channel memory interface, wider than that of Intel's Skylake XCC silicon, and both forwards and backwards compatibility with current-generation Threadripper SKUs (at half the memory bus width) and future Threadripper chips.

PC enthusiasts nurse an expensive hobby, but the commercial success of NVIDIA TITAN V graphics card (or lack thereof) shows that there are limits to how many enthusiasts have $3,000 to spend on a single component.
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160 Comments on Intel's 28-core HEDT Processor a Panic Reaction to 32-core Threadripper

#151
gamerman
"amd has already demonstrated that its 24-core Threadripper II is faster than Intel's $1,999 18-core i9-7980XE"

well, whats up, usually 24-core win 18-core cpu...soo,,whats up.


i see and i wonder alot why amd get so must sympaty and hypeting amd cpu and also gpu so much?? its really not earn it. amd build lausy junk gpu and also close cpu. its fact

truth is and i hope readers know it that amd cpu are bad if we verify it intels cpu

if we put same core cpus 1 to 1, amd loose all time and clear.


also it s weird that amd want always put competition more core cpu against intels cpu,example ryzen 2700x 8-core vs intel 6-core 8700k..but what is moust important ,8700k win games and 3dmarks, moust importants.

amd sure win but still might cinbench and luxmark useless total paper performance test.

same is big multicore cpu with amd, THEY LOOSE intels cpu,its fact, go 3DMAKR hall of fame and try foind any amd TR or any amd cpu top 25 or even top 50.. you dont.

reason is that amd cpus are weak,old arch and they cant handle low timing memory bcoz that.

so...only way to amd to try sell them way and that is lower price.

intel 28-core is enough for amd TR2 32-core....wanna bet



and if we think that carefully,its say clear and fact...again how lausy amd cpus are.

only lets say good point is that intel must work again..nothing else...its release so fast cpus Q4/2018 and Q1/2019 that amd end manufactor again, and then forever.

when intel coming gpu market Q1/2019 amd loose also budget gpu market,bcoz its sure intel gpu are reat efficiency what amdäs gpu are not,not even close. vega 56/64 real tdp 500-600W! its notthese days,should banned and hardware site should up it more than its done.


last, truth is that if you want best performance for games and rendering you choose intel cpu...what ever some hardware site give it smpaty and and that way cheat readers.

gaming and 3dmarks score top = intel
rendering and calculating = intel

also TR2 tdp 250w is very very high,its mean amd case over 300w, near 350w,so watercool is must.
and home user not need thouse 32.core nothing,,,absolute nothing at all. even i can buy TR2 100$ i dont buy it.

think and read right site with objektive test.

if there is NOT powerdraw,forget it.
Posted on Reply
#152
RejZoR
I smell... Intel fanboy...
Posted on Reply
#153
RealNeil
gamermanand if we think that carefully,its say clear and fact...again how lausy amd cpus are.
I call Bullshit on that. AMD CPUs are not lousy anymore. They are competing with Intel again in a lot of ways. I have a Six and an Eight core Ryzen system here that both game well with good GPUs installed into them. Heat is not an issue with either of them and they are responsive computers.

Note that I'm ~not~ saying that Intel's making lousy CPUs either. I have several Intel boxes too. Starting with a 6600K, two 7700K, an 8700K, and a 7900X.

If you don't buy bottom of the barrel parts, you can do well with either brand.
Posted on Reply
#154
Totally
gamerman"amd has already demonstrated that its 24-core Threadripper II is faster than Intel's $1,999 18-core i9-7980XE"

well, whats up, usually 24-core win 18-core cpu...soo,,whats up.


i see and i wonder alot why amd get so must sympaty and hypeting amd cpu and also gpu so much?? its really not earn it. amd build lausy junk gpu and also close cpu. its fact

truth is and i hope readers know it that amd cpu are bad if we verify it intels cpu

if we put same core cpus 1 to 1, amd loose all time and clear.


also it s weird that amd want always put competition more core cpu against intels cpu,example ryzen 2700x 8-core vs intel 6-core 8700k..but what is moust important ,8700k win games and 3dmarks, moust importants.

amd sure win but still might cinbench and luxmark useless total paper performance test.

same is big multicore cpu with amd, THEY LOOSE intels cpu,its fact, go 3DMAKR hall of fame and try foind any amd TR or any amd cpu top 25 or even top 50.. you dont.

reason is that amd cpus are weak,old arch and they cant handle low timing memory bcoz that.

so...only way to amd to try sell them way and that is lower price.

intel 28-core is enough for amd TR2 32-core....wanna bet



and if we think that carefully,its say clear and fact...again how lausy amd cpus are.

only lets say good point is that intel must work again..nothing else...its release so fast cpus Q4/2018 and Q1/2019 that amd end manufactor again, and then forever.

when intel coming gpu market Q1/2019 amd loose also budget gpu market,bcoz its sure intel gpu are reat efficiency what amdäs gpu are not,not even close. vega 56/64 real tdp 500-600W! its notthese days,should banned and hardware site should up it more than its done.


last, truth is that if you want best performance for games and rendering you choose intel cpu...what ever some hardware site give it smpaty and and that way cheat readers.

gaming and 3dmarks score top = intel
rendering and calculating = intel

also TR2 tdp 250w is very very high,its mean amd case over 300w, near 350w,so watercool is must.
and home user not need thouse 32.core nothing,,,absolute nothing at all. even i can buy TR2 100$ i dont buy it.

think and read right site with objektive test.

if there is NOT powerdraw,forget it.
Well when the Intel parts being compared stop costing the same or more or we have equivalent priced Intel parts that is as you say 1:1. Also lrn2grammar, English not being your first language only covers a few errors and typos, not a wall of text bordering on limits of legibility. It would've been easier for you to type that out in your native language, convert it in Google translate, read over it and fix the rough bits(optional considering it will still be better than the above) and paste it here. Also you mention tdp and power draw, tdp between the companies is like comparing apples to oranges, and Intel's 8700k sucks as much power with 2 less cores than AMD's 8 cores, it that why you said forget it?
Posted on Reply
#155
RejZoR
Is 24 core Threadripper beats 18 core i9 ExtremeWhatever while being cheaper BY A LOT, what does it matter how many cores it has and if it lines up with Intel offerings? It's faster and cheaper. That's all users care about. And so do companies. Especially companies where they buy stuff in bulk and the price differences can be huge while they get more performance.
Posted on Reply
#156
nemesis.ie
"GamerMan's" post looks very like those from one of the Intel trolls at WCCFT ...

Apologies if this is not the case, but so many falsehoods and non fact-based opinion make it look that way.

The Vega TDP comment was truly laughable.
Posted on Reply
#157
INSTG8R
Vanguard Beta Tester
That insane “Frankenboard” tells me all I need to know about this joke...
Posted on Reply
#158
Patriot
INSTG8RThat insane “Frankenboard” tells me all I need to know about this joke...
It also tells you this was a months long deception...
Posted on Reply
#159
Totally
Don't know why I'm sharing this but I read that as "months long decepticon" at first glance.
Posted on Reply
#160
Patriot
TotallyDon't know why I'm sharing this but I read that as "months long decepticon" at first glance.
I laughed, the toaster laughed, I shot the toaster, good times.
Posted on Reply
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