Thursday, March 18th 2021

AMD Confirms it Won't Block any Workloads on its Graphics Cards - Including Mining

Hot on the heels of NVIDIA's recent Cryptocurrency Mining Processors (CMP) launch and slightly debacled driver-level neutering of popular mining algorithms with their latest GeForce RTX 3060, AMD product manager Nish Neelalojanan confirmed to PC Gamer that AMD's stance is a fundamentally different one: that they won't be the ones to decide what their customers can or can't do with their hardware. His words, precisely, were this: "We will not be blocking any workload, not just mining for that matter."

Nish then went on to speak on how AMD - and its current RDNA2 product stack - have been specifically geared and optimized for gaming workloads. There are some architectural choices present in RDNA2 that automatically reduce its utility and performance when it comes to mining, such as its infinity Cache - an architectural choice that aims to increase gaming performance by improving cache hits, at the expense of overall memory bandwidth (the most important metric for actual mining operations).
This is why AMD's latest gaming behemoth RX 6900 XT, for example, offers about the same ~54 MH/s Ethereum mining performance as its older (and much smaller) RDNA-based RX 5700 XT. This is an interesting way to frame the problem, and it does naturally lead to lesser demand for AMD's graphics cards compared to NVIDIA's (the RTX 3090, for example, offers a gargantuan up to 120 MH/s in mining algorithms). This doesn't however mean that AMD isn't working on a CMP-like product line based on older technologies that can sate demand for cryptocurrency mining.

Nish then doubled-down on AMD's commitment to gaming:

"All our optimization, as always, is going to be gaming first, and we've optimized everything for gaming. Clearly, gamers are going to reap a ton of benefit from this, and it's not going to be ideal for mining workload. That all said, in this market, it's always a fun thing to watch." I beg to differ on that last part, though. It's definitely not fun to watch the state of the market for gaming-related hardware.
Source: via TechSpot
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73 Comments on AMD Confirms it Won't Block any Workloads on its Graphics Cards - Including Mining

#51
ratirt
I think this is a good thing but on the other hand AMD blocks the GPUs in other way such as locked clocks, power limit etc. So either way AMD wants to control something. Guess each company does since they have different targets with their products.
Posted on Reply
#52
bug
ratirtI think this is a good thing but on the other hand AMD blocks the GPUs in other way such as locked clocks, power limit etc. So either way AMD wants to control something. Guess each company does since they have different targets with their products.
I believe it was already mentioned: it's not that they won't, but they can't. Their Linux driver is open-source, if they put any kind of limiter in there, miners will take it out in no-time. And they can't do the whole driver+silicon+firmware handshake either, because they didn't lock the firmware either.
Posted on Reply
#53
ratirt
bugI believe it was already mentioned: it's not that they won't, but they can't. Their Linux driver is open-source, if they put any kind of limiter in there, miners will take it out in no-time. And they can't do the whole driver+silicon+firmware handshake either, because they didn't lock the firmware either.
That's not the point I was trying to make. They can't block mining so they block other stuff and "AMD wants to control something" was not a reference to mining.
Posted on Reply
#54
Fluffmeister
Minus InfinityOne must prefer AMD's stance because Nvidia's stance is bogus and a publicity stunt. AMD is upfront at least.
Agreed, AMD don't care about gamers either.
Posted on Reply
#55
bencrutz
bugI believe it was already mentioned: it's not that they won't, but they can't. Their Linux driver is open-source, if they put any kind of limiter in there, miners will take it out in no-time. And they can't do the whole driver+silicon+firmware handshake either, because they didn't lock the firmware either.
really? the open source driver still require AMDGPU firmware/microcode binary blobs.......
Posted on Reply
#56
R-T-B
bencrutzreally? the open source driver still require AMDGPU firmware/microcode binary blobs.......
See my posts. Doesn't make a difference.
Posted on Reply
#57
ncrs
R-T-BThe chip on the card is completely filled via the bios images we dump/modify. I don't know what you are getting at.
I don't think you understand the entire process that happens when you use one of those BIOS modifiers. The BIOS image is basically split in to parts like this (it's just an illustration): [PPPPPPNNNNPPNNNNNPPP] Where P contains cryptographically protected code and N does not. You modify N parts with your software. You flash the entire BIOS back into the chip. The protected parts don't change, crypto signatures are still valid and the card starts up. If you go and modify the image directly touching P parts thus screwing up the signed parts then the card will either not boot or not function properly (depending on what you broke).
Posted on Reply
#58
(*^^*)
Nvidia tried to limit the RTX 3060. Does it make sense? RTX3060 is the position of RTX2070.RX5700XT.GTX1080ti. The thickest. Does it make sense for me to limit inventory for this spec for anything other than mining? I want to ask. I think Nvidia restricted the RTX3060 for profit and led miners to buy more than the RTX3060ti. Since it's dub anyway, I'd like you to think about strengthening production of the RTX 3060 without any restrictions. It is impossible to stop the miner. You just have to supply them until they settle down.
Posted on Reply
#59
R-T-B
ncrsI don't think you understand the entire process that happens when you use one of those BIOS modifiers. The BIOS image is basically split in to parts like this
And I think you are massively underestimating what I understand.
Posted on Reply
#60
ncrs
R-T-BAnd I think you are massively underestimating what I understand.
Well, I base my assessment on our conversation here, and this reply only reinforces it.
Posted on Reply
#61
Luminescent
AMD doesn't give a flying f...k about PC gaming, they barely exist compared to Nvidia and the time and effort to release that statement is already too much.
Posted on Reply
#62
TheoneandonlyMrK
LuminescentAMD doesn't give a flying f...k about PC gaming, they barely exist compared to Nvidia and the time and effort to release that statement is already too much.
Likewise with your statement, total balls pal.

Barely exist, my ass they had consoles and pcs for well over ten years and your blinkered bullshit just demonstrated your opinions value.
Posted on Reply
#63
Luminescent
TheoneandonlyMrKLikewise with your statement, total balls pal.

Barely exist, my ass they had consoles and pcs for well over ten years and your blinkered bullshit just demonstrated your opinions value.
Read carefully what i said, PC gaming, not consoles.
Let's say i am AMD, should i care about the 1% gpu sales or 100% of console market i have, well, have as making the cpu and gpu for microsoft and sony.
Whatever they do with gpu's in PC realm is just money grab, history of what they launched the last 5 or more years proved it, radeon VII, vega 64 and more, at some point they didn't even tried to compete high end.
Posted on Reply
#64
TheoneandonlyMrK
LuminescentRead carefully what i said, PC gaming, not consoles.
Let's say i am AMD, should i care about the 1% gpu sales or 100% of console market i have, well, have as making the cpu and gpu for microsoft and sony.
Whatever they do with gpu's in PC realm is just money grab, history of what they launched the last 5 or more years proved it, radeon VII, vega 64 and more, at some point they didn't even tried to compete high end.
Read carefully what I say.

This is a thread about AMD not limiting miner's or any workload.

Take your biased let's debate AMD v Nvidia crap elsewhere, like the team green thread.

You have f all proof AMD don't care and if you do pass it the news team ,your vitreal is useless to this topic.
And the steam charts your type pedal mean shit too, before you pull that shit out.
Posted on Reply
#65
hat
Enthusiast
TheoneandonlyMrKRead carefully what I say.

This is a thread about AMD not limiting miner's or any workload.

Take your biased let's debate AMD v Nvidia crap elsewhere, like the team green thread.

You have f all proof AMD don't care and if you do pass it the news team ,your vitreal is useless to this topic.
And the steam charts your type pedal mean shit too, before you pull that shit out.
AMD doesn't care. Neither does Nvidia, or Intel, or Taco Bell. They're all in the business to make money.
Posted on Reply
#66
TheoneandonlyMrK
hatAMD doesn't care. Neither does Nvidia, or Intel, or Taco Bell. They're all in the business to make money.
Without concerns for your customers and bottom line you won't be around long and that's the shortage rage talking , with no proof too.

I'm not without some anger over this shituation, but I'm not getting crazy, there's many reasons not one.
It's a true shitstorm, shitburg, shitnado Even of circumstances.
Posted on Reply
#67
hat
Enthusiast
TheoneandonlyMrKWithout concerns for your customers and bottom line you won't be around long and that's the shortage rage talking , with no proof too.

I'm not without some anger over this shituation, but I'm not getting crazy, there's many reasons not one.
It's a true shitstorm, shitburg, shitnado Even of circumstances.
While true, it's in every company's best interests to cater to their customers far enough to get sales. My point is that doesn't make them your friend. Nvidia won't come to your house and share a bottle and a pack of smokes if your girlfriend breaks up with you, but neither will AMD.
Posted on Reply
#68
TheoneandonlyMrK
hatWhile true, it's in every company's best interests to cater to their customers far enough to get sales. My point is that doesn't make them your friend. Nvidia won't come to your house and share a bottle and a pack of smokes if your girlfriend breaks up with you, but neither will AMD.
Obviously who said they'd get the beers in?!
But no need for the other extreme of no one cares either.

Not me n I'm not buying either :D
Posted on Reply
#69
R-T-B
ncrsWell, I base my assessment on our conversation here, and this reply only reinforces it.
What would you like me to do? Link some of my mod work in bios land (I've done both VGA for both brands and UEFI/BIOS on mobos)? Would that help? Serious question.

Most recent two I believe can be found right here on Techpowerup. Mainly modded bioses for 5700XT with completely altered volt and clock tables as well as features toggled off to try to get the early cards stable. I also worked on scrubbing the Intel Management Engine from mobos, and am involved in the reverse engineering of it.

I have a hardware bios programmer I use a lot, have actually modded Pascal bioses too (one of the few to manage it, Falcon locks them down pretty bad), and know the chip on Navi at least is fully unprotected both by it's stated capacity and the fact I can modify basically any region without consequence.
Posted on Reply
#70
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
I want AMD to produce good hardware and software support for said hardware. I think that limiting hardware artificially opposes that goal, regardless of the reason for it and even if I think crypto in its current form is dumb.
Posted on Reply
#71
Unregistered
hatWhile true, it's in every company's best interests to cater to their customers far enough to get sales. My point is that doesn't make them your friend. Nvidia won't come to your house and share a bottle and a pack of smokes if your girlfriend breaks up with you, but neither will AMD.
How many f l o p s does that pack of smokes have?
Posted on Edit | Reply
#72
hat
Enthusiast
AlexaHow many f l o p s does that pack of smokes have?
Normally 20
Posted on Reply
#73
Jism
ratirtI think this is a good thing but on the other hand AMD blocks the GPUs in other way such as locked clocks, power limit etc. So either way AMD wants to control something. Guess each company does since they have different targets with their products.
Sigh. It's to prevent cards from burning up. Just like their CPU's there is a limit on how much current and / or voltages they can take before degradation starts to kick in. They give you some tools to OC but pushing for the absolute limit is out of the question. They dont want RMA's on users who shoved too much voltage(s) or current through their chips, which makes perfect sense.
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