ArcdarTotally agree with this - and those two sentences summarize the two biggest issues and why there is so much "revolt" / "emotional distress" in forums (besides the dunning-kruger effect ^^). One of the reasons I really love TPU as wizzard and the team are far away from this behavior and besides doing extremely detailed reviews keep it very neutral and "unbiased" (yes, some "leaked-postings" are the opposite of that, but I'm exclusively talking about the testing and how much work goes into trying to keep it balanced :) )


Electricity and heating go crazy right now in every part of the world, but this is insane ôO .... I mean - you're not joking?

I am not, and without our regulator stepping in capping prices, 3 months might have been enough.

The crisis is down to two things.

Our country has very little energy storage, and on top of that reliant on imports to fulfil our demand. We had one of our cross channel links break down in September, I believe it is back to running at 50% utilisation now.

Second the wholesale prices have skyrocketed to record breaking levels unforeseen. The only reason these have not translated to retail prices is due to the regulator having a retail price cap, this price cap doesnt apply to industry, and our government had to make deals with some large manufacturers to keep their plants running.

My direct debit (monthly expenditure for electric) is currently £95 a month, to buy a 12900k in uk is £560. So closer to 5 months worth of energy cost for me.

The Quim ReaperI'm from the UK and he's talking nonsense. There is no 'crisis' just energy supply companies who low balled their prices to attract customers and then got caught out by Putin's games. These companies go under but their customers are just switched to another supplier with no disruptions.

..and if he's paying £2000 for electric ( I suspect he means gas supply as well) , then that is down to his wastefulness. My combined Gas & Electric bill is just £60 a month for comparison, with Electric accounting for about £40 of that.

I'm not sure what to say, saw that post and thought 'yeah, so?'. Four months of utilities coming out to $600-$800 is not unusual at all. Mine are mostly lower than $200/mo during summer, $100 in now with mild temps, but this is a new extremely efficient house - a selling point. Right at 2000 sqft.

In my last house (2004), and the house before that (1992), I could have a $300 utility bill. So ah, that's like an i9-12900K = 2 months of utilities during the summer. My mother in law used to have a 4000 sqft house and she would regularly have a $450 utility bill.

So I'd say, unless you live in a smallish 1 or 2br apt, 4 months of utilities = 12900K is like totally normal.

The Quim ReaperI'm from the UK and he's talking nonsense. There is no 'crisis' just energy supply companies who low balled their prices to attract customers and then got caught out by Putin's games. These companies go under but their customers are just switched to another supplier with no disruptions.

..and if he's paying £2000 for electric ( I suspect he means gas supply as well) , then that is down to his wastefulness. My combined Gas & Electric bill is just £60 a month for comparison, with Electric accounting for about £40 of that.

The figure I quoted is for electric only, its closer to 5 months instead of 4, but not nonsense as you put it.

If we set aside our own bills, we could just use the UK average which is actually higher than my bill. Your bill is actually extremely low, it would seem you use very little electric. So yes less than half a year of electric can buy me a 12900k brand new cpu.

Bills also due to go up at least 30% in April next year, as the cap is losing the suppliers money.

In my country, electricity is also quite expensive relative to how much average people earn

RandallFlaggI'm not sure what to say, saw that post and thought 'yeah, so?'. Four months of utilities coming out to $600-$800 is not unusual at all. Mine are mostly lower than $200/mo during summer, $100 in now with mild temps, but this is a new extremely efficient house - a selling point. Right at 2000 sqft.

In my last house (2004), and the house before that (1992), I could have a $300 utility bill. So ah, that's like an i9-12900K = 2 months of utilities during the summer. My mother in law used to have a 4000 sqft house and she would regularly have a $450 utility bill.

So I'd say, unless you live in a smallish 1 or 2br apt, 4 months of utilities = 12900K is like totally normal.

I've been to the US (San Francisco, Boston, Bangor) in different houses and "insulation situations" - but if you say "extremely efficient house" I wonder how you still get to around 200$ A MONTH for utilities. At least if we talk about heating/electricity. If you include water for a 2ksqft house I guess with 2 grown-ups and 2 kids it could be understandable. But then I'm wrong as I thought of "electricity only" - like he stated it.

And electricity bills went insane in France and some areas of Germany for various reasons (heating also, but again, we weren't talking about that ;) ) but not THAT high, that it would get to over 150€ a month :D ;) .

ArcdarI've been to the US (San Francisco, Boston, Bangor) in different houses and "insulation situations" - but if you say "extremely efficient house" I wonder how you still get to around 200$ A MONTH for utilities. At least if we talk about heating/electricity. If you include water for a 2ksqft house I guess with 2 grown-ups and 2 kids it could be understandable. But then I'm wrong as I thought of "electricity only" - like he stated it.

And electricity bills went insane in France and some areas of Germany for various reasons (heating also, but again, we weren't talking about that ;) ) but not THAT high, that it would get to over 150€ a month :D ;) .

I looked and $165 was our peak electric bill this year, in 100F degree heat and the wife likes to keep it at 69F in the house <- that's why.

I will tell you in our 1570 sqft house our peak electric was over $250 - that house was about 420 sqft smaller than this one, so I have 25% more space and pay 40% lower electric (Edit: I also didn't WFH back then, which also affects utility bills).

This house is very efficient, inset LED lights in the ceiling, foam is not just in the walls but in the rafters in the attic so the attic stays like 80 or 85 in the summer, and there's a computer up there that keeps the attic cool/warm based on what is most efficient for the house.

That is just electricity. My current bill is $105 for electric, month before it was 125. Water/Gas/trash is normally about $60-$100.

So in Texas, the average KWH for a single family home is about 1,200KWH / month. Last month we used 1,050KWH.

My house has a HERS rating of 56. If I were in a "normal" new house, HERS rating would be 100 or nearly double my current cost.

chrcolukwe could just use the UK average which is actually higher than my bill

Utter rubbish!

The average UK energy bill is ~£1100 a year.

www.loveenergysavings.com/content-hub/energy-talk/how-much-is-the-average-uk-household-energy-bill/

Please be more polite instead of calling everything rubbish or nonsense, that article was written before the price jumps,

Note the jump here, and will be a bigger one in April as the current cap is too low.

ArcdarTotally agree with this - and those two sentences summarize the two biggest issues and why there is so much "revolt" / "emotional distress" in forums (besides the dunning-kruger effect ^^). One of the reasons I really love TPU as wizzard and the team are far away from this behavior and besides doing extremely detailed reviews keep it very neutral and "unbiased" (yes, some "leaked-postings" are the opposite of that, but I'm exclusively talking about the testing and how much work goes into trying to keep it balanced :) )


Electricity and heating go crazy right now in every part of the world, but this is insane ôO .... I mean - you're not joking?

I'm at $150-$200Au a month here, and the 12900K is $1kAu - so it's not as bad downunder, but it's very far from cheap

Why are we comparing CPU prices to electricity costs? What's the point? :kookoo:

Because according to a certain... camp having an Intel will double your bill! :laugh:

HenrySomeoneBecause according to a certain... camp having an Intel will double your bill! :laugh:

Okay, so just to keep that... camp up to date, let me run some calculations.

If you're using a 125 W Intel CPU instead of an 88 W AMD (65 W TDP) at 100% load, you're using 37 W more, that is 37 Wh in an hour.
Let's say you're running your PC at 100% load for 4 hours per day. That means a 100% utilisation of your CPU for 1461 hours per year.
37 W * 1461 h = 54.057 kWh per year. Considering an average UK unit rate of £0.2 per kWh, that gives you a £10.81 higher bill per year. Absolutely terrible! :ohwell:

AusWolfWhy are we comparing CPU prices to electricity costs? What's the point? :kookoo:

Fighting boredom.

Guwapo77They will slash prices eventually. MLD brought up a point from a business perspective, that AMD might hold off on slashing prices until after the holidays. Because AMD could be questioning Intel's supply. AMD has the stock in place for the holidays. We shall see who wins this chess game this quarter.

Both in stock aplenty in my local computer shops.

owen10578Both in stock aplenty in my local computer shops.

Newegg has everything but the 12900K as of today. There is a KF in stock for $818. /shrugs we'll see.

RandallFlaggI looked and $165 was our peak electric bill this year, in 100F degree heat and the wife likes to keep it at 69F in the house <- that's why.

I will tell you in our 1570 sqft house our peak electric was over $250 - that house was about 420 sqft smaller than this one, so I have 25% more space and pay 40% lower electric (Edit: I also didn't WFH back then, which also affects utility bills).

This house is very efficient, inset LED lights in the ceiling, foam is not just in the walls but in the rafters in the attic so the attic stays like 80 or 85 in the summer, and there's a computer up there that keeps the attic cool/warm based on what is most efficient for the house.

That is just electricity. My current bill is $105 for electric, month before it was 125. Water/Gas/trash is normally about $60-$100.

So in Texas, the average KWH for a single family home is about 1,200KWH / month. Last month we used 1,050KWH.

My house has a HERS rating of 56. If I were in a "normal" new house, HERS rating would be 100 or nearly double my current cost.

Oh man.... I totally forgot the insane prices from "back then" (lived in SF from 2015 to 2018 before I moved back to Munich, Germany).

The insanity is that the prices are a lot higher here (0.269 € per KWh) but in general the usage is A LOT lower (fun fact: an average home with 2 grown-up is calculated with 2500KWh .... per year) as the houses (even old ones) are quite efficient.... I'm planning a new "passive-house" which is a "low energy-house" according to European/German standards and I just checked, it would be at around 24 on that scale. That's why I was so surprised when you said "low energy" and still had bills like that. Here everything with an AC doesn't cover "low energy house", doesn't get "support" (gov. subsidies for low energy building) and in general is "frowned upon" (sadly - but hey, it's also not that much needed ^^). But yeah.... those DO use quite a bit of power to run all summer :).

Besides the prices for electricity (which would be insane to pay for with >1KWh per month) I think people would burn you alive if you'd do that here (as everyone is going crazy regarding "going green" *sigh*).


I had my render-farms at home and totally noticed it (and happy that my company is going to reimburse me :D ) as my power-usage peaked at 520KWh last month - again, a typical household with 150-250kw/h per month would last 2-3 Months with that alone :D.

Man, I miss the bay..... but there are also some good things here ^^ (besides beer and REAL bread ;) :D )

ArcdarOh man.... I totally forgot the insane prices from "back then" (lived in SF from 2015 to 2018 before I moved back to Munich, Germany).

The insanity is that the prices are a lot higher here (0.269 € per KWh) but in general the usage is A LOT lower (fun fact: an average home with 2 grown-up is calculated with 2500KWh .... per year) as the houses (even old ones) are quite efficient.... I'm planning a new "passive-house" which is a "low energy-house" according to European/German standards and I just checked, it would be at around 24 on that scale. That's why I was so surprised when you said "low energy" and still had bills like that. Here everything with an AC doesn't cover "low energy house", doesn't get "support" (gov. subsidies for low energy building) and in general is "frowned upon" (sadly - but hey, it's also not that much needed ^^). But yeah.... those DO use quite a bit of power to run all summer :).

Besides the prices for electricity (which would be insane to pay for with >1KWh per month) I think people would burn you alive if you'd do that here (as everyone is going crazy regarding "going green" *sigh*).


I had my render-farms at home and totally noticed it (and happy that my company is going to reimburse me :D ) as my power-usage peaked at 520KWh last month - again, a typical household with 150-250kw/h per month would last 2-3 Months with that alone :D.

Man, I miss the bay..... but there are also some good things here ^^ (besides beer and REAL bread ;) :D )

That varies here by climate though. Up in the northeastern US like Maine, which has similar climate to most of Europe, average is about 500KWH / month. In TX the June-Sept avg temps are between 90 and 100F. Germany by contrast had averages just under 70F in June (peak temp month for Germany), where here it is usually near 100 in July-Sep. My electric usage has actually dropped by about 1/3 already from its peak levels as it cools off here - but still warmer than Germany's avg. Basically your energy usage is likely hidden in gas heating.

RandallFlaggThat varies here by climate though. Up in the northeastern US like Maine, which has similar climate to most of Europe, average is about 500KWH / month. In TX the June-Sept avg temps are between 90 and 100F. Germany by contrast had averages just under 70F in June (peak temp month for Germany), where here it is usually near 100 in July-Sep. My electric usage has actually dropped by about 1/3 already from its peak levels as it cools off here - but still warmer than Germany's avg. Basically your energy usage is likely hidden in gas heating.

Like I said, I lived in San Francisco from 2015-2018 (and what I didn't say is also lived for Aug. to March in Boston and have relative in Bangor - Maine ;) ) so I know the temp-differences, even though "in the Bay" it's not really bad - we actually spend more on heating in winter than AC in summer (as the insulation of the house was quite BAD .... like really. it felt like heating the outside instead of the room sometimes and I was ~10 Minutes walk away from Pier1/FerryBuilding). But yeah. In general in Germany you don't use "Electric heating" (neither for house heating or warm water) - but heating costs are pretty low also and sometimes nearly nothing - my next house is a mix of PV-Solar, Air-Air-Heat-Exchanger and geothermal heat exchanger - in addition to a heat-recovery-system and a wooden stove ^^ ...... that's how I'll get down to around a "20-24 rating" on that scale ;).

And I'm not even "extreme" - because Air-Air-Heatexchangers are considered "low efficiency" and even the good geothermal heat exchanger is "only decent" - like I said, people go crazy here about "going green" and even if you "do a lot of good stuff" you're still considered "average" :D. On the other side, for what I have to pay for real-estate here and building the house I could also buy a property around the Marine-Headlands in SF ..... totally fucked up (and would rather buy a house around Boulder, Reno, Bangor or similar - where the prices are still "normal" :D - and yes. in the US instead of Germany. Even with all the crazyness ^^ .... but not that easy regarding visas and everything).

ArcdarLike I said, I lived in San Francisco from 2015-2018 (and what I didn't say is also lived for Aug. to March in Boston and have relative in Bangor - Maine ;) ) so I know the temp-differences, even though "in the Bay" it's not really bad - we actually spend more on heating in winter than AC in summer (as the insulation of the house was quite BAD .... like really. it felt like heating the outside instead of the room sometimes and I was ~10 Minutes walk away from Pier1/FerryBuilding). But yeah. In general in Germany you don't use "Electric heating" (neither for house heating or warm water) - but heating costs are pretty low also and sometimes nearly nothing - my next house is a mix of PV-Solar, Air-Air-Heat-Exchanger and geothermal heat exchanger - in addition to a heat-recovery-system and a wooden stove ^^ ...... that's how I'll get down to around a "20-24 rating" on that scale ;).

And I'm not even "extreme" - because Air-Air-Heatexchangers are considered "low efficiency" and even the good geothermal heat exchanger is "only decent" - like I said, people go crazy here about "going green" and even if you "do a lot of good stuff" you're still considered "average" :D. On the other side, for what I have to pay for real-estate here and building the house I could also buy a property around the Marine-Headlands in SF ..... totally fucked up (and would rather buy a house around Boulder, Reno, Bangor or similar - where the prices are still "normal" :D - and yes. in the US instead of Germany. Even with all the crazyness ^^ .... but not that easy regarding visas and everything).

Ahhh.. I lived in Orange County near LA for a few years, and the most populous areas of CA are nothing like TX as far as climate. A lot of people within 20-30 miles of the coast don't even have AC at all. The currents in the Pacific near California are coming from around Alaska, so the water is cool and gives CA its awesome climate. By contrast the east coast currents are coming from the Caribbean, which gives the east coast its much more muggy and tropical climate.

TX would be more like living in San Bernardino or Riverside counties. Most of TX geographically is hot and dry, but the large metro areas where most people live are hot and muggy thanks to the many man-made lakes and reservoirs.

Having said that, the last few years it's been relatively cool in TX, and relatively hot in CA. Relative to the past 20 years or so anyway. Ofc even that is perspective, I lived in WI for a bit too and those people break out shorts when the temp goes above 50F. Below 60F is jacket weather here in TX.

RandallFlaggHaving said that, the last few years it's been relatively cool in TX, and relatively hot in CA. Relative to the past 20 years or so anyway. Ofc even that is perspective, I lived in WI for a bit too and those people break out shorts when the temp goes above 50F. Below 60F is jacket weather here in TX.

yeah. I've worn shorts and shirts nearly all year in SF (and light suit pants and rolled up sleeves for work/business school as they didn't want to see short pants sadly :D ) and they called me crazy..... but for me winter is everything starting with frost and snow - not "omg its below 60°F, the world is ending!!!!" :D

But I get the difference in climate - the difference in power usage still sometimes blows my mind :D (2500kwh per year for a 2 person household here compared to 500-2500kwh per month in some areas of the US - and like I said, even in SF thanks to heating sometimes, too :D )