Thursday, May 12th 2022

Bitcoin Bloodbath Brings Cheer to Gamers as Graphics Card Prices Plummet

Bitcoin, along with most cryptocurrencies are going through a cycle of devaluation. They may rebound in the future, but for now it means that crypto miners will halt purchases of graphics cards, and possibly even sell what they have, to raise capital for next-generation GPU purchases (late-2022). What this means is a flooding of the market with used graphics cards, which will put tremendous pressure on graphics card manufacturers to lower prices. It's also a means for NVIDIA and AMD to clear out their current-generation inventory, to make room for the next-gen. The inflection of all these factors brings cheer to PC gamers, who can finally have an NVIDIA "Ampere" or AMD RDNA2 graphics card at prices that are either at or below MSRP (launch prices).

Bitcoin has crashed nearly 60%, from its November 2021 price of 65,000 USD, to 27,150, as of this writing. This will have a direct impact on the economics of mining cryptocurrencies using power-hungry high-end graphics cards. Those with mining farms will look to stop mining, and possibly get rid of some of their graphics cards while their market-value are still at an acceptable level. The competition between pre-owned graphics cards and brand-new ones from the market, will bring down prices of both.
NVIDIA recently announced the "Restocked and Reloaded" marketing campaign, where the company is reaching out to gamers, telling them that their RTX 30-series cards are back in stock, at MSRP pricing. AMD, on the other hand, has refreshed its RX 6000 series product stack with three new SKUs, signaling gamers that it has new hardware on the shelves.

An AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT can be had for as low as $899, which is also the price for the cheapest NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080. The cheapest RTX 3060 Ti is $529, while the cheapest RX 6700 XT is $498. The cheapest RX 6600 XT is at $399, while the cheapest RTX 3060 is going for $419. Rejoice!
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122 Comments on Bitcoin Bloodbath Brings Cheer to Gamers as Graphics Card Prices Plummet

#76
dragontamer5788
R0H1TWas it?
Yes.

www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2021/09/02/gm-semiconductor-chip-shortage-assembly-plants-close/5694047001/

www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/ford-idles-cuts-output-8-plants-chip-supplies-still-tight

www.theregister.com/2021/10/15/toyota_chip_shortages/

www.proremodeler.com/global-microchip-shortage-worsens-appliance-delays-may-last-until-2022
R0H1TSo no I don't see how Covid wasn't a major factor in that, remember the spike in "work/study from home" PC's or other related hardware sales?
I'm not saying that Desktops / Laptops demand weren't elevated last year.

I'm saying that when you have these talking heads talking about CHIP SHORTAGE, they're talking about the idle factories and disrupted supply chains that reverberated across America for nearly a year. The CHIP SHORTAGE (40nm-class) was epic, on a level almost never before seen.

The "chip shortage" (7nm class) was... a bit worse than normal but within the realm of reason. And I cite DDR4 / NAND Flash as proof of this, which really wasn't affected.

7nm factories are different than 40nm factories, and both are "chips". The fact that Presidents / Prime Ministers moved to secure more chips was more about the 40nm and 28nm classes used by the automotive industry (and other manufacturing firms), rather than the high-tech stuff like 7nm or 5nm stuff that we techies like to use.

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As such, I blame "GPU Shortages" on the cryptocoin community, as profitability was through the roof for all of 2021. Again, who builds computers with 8x GPUs per computer, but the same amount of RAM / NAND Flash as before? Cryptocoin miners. And the supply-chain disruptions (for us high-tech 7nm users) were almost entirely centered upon GPUs, not on DDR4, Flash, or other components.
Posted on Reply
#77
R0H1T
dragontamer5788And I cite DDR4 / NAND Flash as proof of this.
How so? The biggest sales on those nodes were from Apple, MediaTek, Qualcomm & then probably AMD. The first 3 have all long term supplies secured, for NAND & DRAM, with reasonable pricing (fixed) in place for their key markets. Not to mention hiking prices of these components would only lower their overall sales in a vicious market with low visibility & lots of other issues to deal with, this was during several quarters of Covid. Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron, YMTC et al are greedy but not stupid.
Posted on Reply
#78
napata
ymbajaRight. Noobs and folks who prefer the 100% LHR unlock.
So noobs? It took one day for other devs to cicumvent it after NH did it.
Posted on Reply
#79
dragontamer5788
R0H1THow so? The biggest sales on those nodes were from Apple, MediaTek, Qualcomm & then probably AMD. The first 3 have all long term supplies secured, for NAND & FLASH, with reasonable pricing (fixed) in place for their key markets. Not to mention hiking prices of these components would only lower their overall sales in a vicious market with low visibility & lots of other issues to deal with, this was during several quarters of Covid. Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron, YMTC et al are greedy but not stupid.
I was watching $1 voltage-controllers get sold out in 2021. Completely gone, 6-month, 9-month, 21-month lead times. The price of these chips tripled to $3 (which is a big deal, since you need hundreds or even thousands of these chips to make a EV battery).

"Chip shortage (40nm+ class)" is different from "Chip shortage (7nm class)". That's my point. Low-tech chips ran out completely, to the point where Ford / GM / Toyota just closed down their factories temporarily, and appliance makers also shut down.

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You're talking about "Chip shortage (7nm class)", which... was negligible in comparison. We never saw a disruption to DDR4 RAM or NAND Flash supply. Or hell, even CPU supply was 100% fine all of last year. Only GPUs were in a shortage. As usual, the CPUs would sell-out upon release, but after a week or two things were fine again.

When people talk about "COVID19 chip shortage", they aren't talking about us techies. They're talking about low-tech chips for manufacturers.
Posted on Reply
#80
R0H1T
I was talking specifically about GPU prices, which you said was primarily(?) because of cryptocoins? There's no such evidence because they could also have been due to the lack of adequate capacity, for both AMD & NVidia, & competing interests in the CPU(x86) & mobile markets which have traditionally a much larger share of capacity as well as sales in the overcall chip market. Think of it like this ~
AMD buys X amount of wafers from TSMC, Covid strikes & demand spikes up at least 20% across the board, you don't remember the 5xxx series availability in the last two years? So what does AMD do ~ invest more in securing higher capacity for their dGPU or just sell every CPU they can make, especially EPYC, & then try their hand at IC version of Russian Roulette?

It's relatively easier for Nvidia because dGPU is their bread & butter, shifting or apportioning capacity between their consumer & enterprise lines is much easier for them as compared to AMD who have what 10 different major product lines?

Basically I'm blaming (both) manufacturers & OEM's more for this (pricing) mess than the cryptocoin bubble which seems to have popped.
Posted on Reply
#81
dragontamer5788
R0H1Tbecause of cryptocoins? There's no such evidence because they could also have been due to the lack of adequate capacity,
Its not like we ran out of Apple M1 chips, Apple iPhones, Samsung phones, Qualcomm Snapdragons, Intel x86 chips, network-adapters, NAND Flash or DDR4 / DDR5 RAM last year.

What did we run out of? GPUs. And GPUs only. Why would we run out of GPUs only? Is there any particular customer who was beyond-the-norm profitable in 2020 and 2021 that would have gobbled up every GPU they could get their hands on?

----

If this really was a broad-market 7nm shortage, like you allege, then we would have run out of laptops, phones, and desktops last year. But we didn't. We only ran out of GPUs. You need to explain why the GPU market was specifically in high-demand, and no other market (CPU, NAND Flash, or DDR4 RAM) was in high-demand.
Posted on Reply
#82
ThrashZone
Hi,
Just checked local micro center
There is no plummet only new thing is reserve is live on instock gpu's so fake news on the plummet bit :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#83
dragontamer5788
ThrashZoneHi,
Just checked local micro center
There is no plummet only new thing is reserve is live on instock gpu's so fake news on the plummet bit :laugh:
I've been watching the 3070 Ti drop from $1000 at Microcenter (a few months ago) to $800 about two weeks ago to $699 just right now. This is still $100+ over MSRP, but much better than before.

AMD 6900xt cards in particular are nearly MSRP at my Microcenter at $950 right now.
Posted on Reply
#84
R0H1T
dragontamer5788What did we run out of? GPUs. And GPUs only. Why would we run out of GPUs only? Is there any particular customer who was beyond-the-norm profitable in 2020 and 2021 that would have gobbled up every GPU they could get their hands on?
Not exactly true is it, like I said for 5xxx chips & their pricing or the consoles?
Posted on Reply
#85
dragontamer5788
R0H1TNot exactly true is it, like I said for 5xxx chips & their pricing or the consoles?
5xxx chips can be simply explained by AMD not having enough money to buy up more TSMC space (as well as expecting better competition from Intel. I think we were all surprised to see just how well Zen3 performed relative to Intel).

But its not like Intel ran out of chips last year.

I think you have a point on the consoles, which could be explained by the COVID19 situation (more people indoors, fewer people on trips). But the Nintendo Switch (NVidia-made chips) didn't run out. Since its "just" AMD who ran out of chips in this example, the common-thread / occam's razor is that AMD didn't buy enough chip capacity from TSMC.
Posted on Reply
#86
R-T-B
Vayra86Hahaha, joke's on you then.
I use stablecoins with actual currency backing, not crypto backing. That was always going to be a bad idea. You can't back air with more air.

USDC is holding steady, as always.
Posted on Reply
#87
dragontamer5788
R0H1TNot exactly true is it, like I said for 5xxx chips & their pricing or the consoles?
Just thought of this one, if this is your argument.

Why did Rx 6900 xt graphics card prices drop by $500 over the past few weeks? PS5 and XBOX are still sold out everywhere. The only thing that has changed is that Ethereum has gone from $3500 to $2000ish highly suggesting a change in miners. Gamers are still buying up PS5 / XBOX consoles at the same rate.

GPUs are suddenly available at MSRP. This sudden supply glut coincides with a historic Ethereum crash.
Posted on Reply
#88
R0H1T
In other news the usual (at least) once in a decade stock market bust is probably upon us! Should've happened somewhere around 2019-20 if it weren't for Covid. Yes I remember that crash but I'm talking bigger like 2008 or 2000 levels.
Posted on Reply
#89
Vya Domus
UpgrayeddNobody with the know how to put a 12GPU rig together is then pointing it at NH.
You can always check their subreddit and convince yourself that many do in fact own and run that many GPUs.
UpgrayeddA long as a mining card was given fresh air and not hot recirculated air then it's probably in better shape than most gamers cards who get heat cycled and put on pull full power in their tempered glass hotboxes.
Nice joke, that's not how this works. Even if the GPU is kept cooled components have a limited lifetime, a GPU that has run 24/7 even in perfect conditions will categorially still have a lower lifetime than one used for gaming maybe 3-4 hours a day on average.
Posted on Reply
#90
Vayra86
R-T-BI use stablecoins with actual currency backing, not crypto backing. That was always going to be a bad idea. You can't back air with more air.

USDC is holding steady, as always.
Solvability was the problem underneath Terra's collapse though, right? How certain are you those dollars are real? Its not unlike bank runs, when the money isnt in the safe and faith collapses, I wonder how many of those dollars are actually available.
dragontamer5788Its not like we ran out of Apple M1 chips, Apple iPhones, Samsung phones, Qualcomm Snapdragons, Intel x86 chips, network-adapters, NAND Flash or DDR4 / DDR5 RAM last year.

What did we run out of? GPUs. And GPUs only. Why would we run out of GPUs only? Is there any particular customer who was beyond-the-norm profitable in 2020 and 2021 that would have gobbled up every GPU they could get their hands on?

----

If this really was a broad-market 7nm shortage, like you allege, then we would have run out of laptops, phones, and desktops last year. But we didn't. We only ran out of GPUs. You need to explain why the GPU market was specifically in high-demand, and no other market (CPU, NAND Flash, or DDR4 RAM) was in high-demand.
Its a tiny market compared to other consumer product, responding quickly to trends. And... we did run out of lots of other stuff too.
Posted on Reply
#91
R-T-B
Vayra86How certain are you those dollars are real?
USDC is run by circle consortium and despite the evil name they are far more transparent than anyone else books wise. This isn't tether and the like.
Vayra86I wonder how many of those dollars are actually available.
IIRC, 60% is the goal in immediate liquidity. Or maybe 40, I forget. Either way it's a sizable liquid chunk.
Posted on Reply
#92
Vayra86
R-T-BUSDC is run by circle consortium and despite the evil name they are far more transparent than anyone else books wise. This isn't tether and the like.


IIRC, 60% is the goal in immediate liquidity.
And yet its unregulated unprotected and relies on faith. You just picked a different story to believe in. But its a story, exactly like other stablecoins can provide very smooth looking papers and websites.
Posted on Reply
#93
looniam
Vya DomusNice joke, that's not how this works. Even if the GPU is kept cooled components have a limited lifetime, a GPU that has run 24/7 even in perfect conditions will categorially still have a lower lifetime than one used for gaming maybe 3-4 hours a day on average.
no joke, components' lifetimes are based on temps and time that have a negative correlation; decreased temps/increase time - at a rate of doubling it for every -10C in most examples.

that post has more creditability.
Posted on Reply
#94
Icon Charlie
R0H1TWas it?
hothardware.com/news/desktop-cpu-sales-quarterly-decline-amd-record-share

Not to mention the move to 7/8nm or better nodes only just begun during that time back in 2019/20 period. TSMC has increased capacity massively from back then, better yields & now moving on to 4nm or smaller nodes. So no I don't see how Covid wasn't a major factor in that, remember the spike in "work/study from home" PC's or other related hardware sales?
Agree with you. 100%
Posted on Reply
#95
R-T-B
Vayra86And yet its unregulated unprotected and relies on faith. You just picked a different story to believe in. But its a story, exactly like other stablecoins can provide very smooth looking papers and websites.
I'm unsure how it's entirely faith. I mean, there is something backing it. But yeah it's not FDIC insured or anything (neither is paypal btw)
Posted on Reply
#96
Vayra86
R-T-BI'm unsure how it's entirely faith. I mean, there is something backing it. But yeah it's not FDIC insured or anything (neither is paypal btw)
Paypal is backed by the US dollar in a real world economy which in turn is a regulated currency and a vast intertwined system of tried and tested checks and balances.

People have enough faith in that to assign US dollar as the world's primary coin to determine value and trade assets. They work and earn dollars directly too.

Everything in the economy is about faith.
Posted on Reply
#97
R-T-B
Vayra86Paypal is backed by the US dollar
About as much as circles usdc I'd wager. If you think 100% of their deposit assets are liquid, well, I can promise you they aren't.
Posted on Reply
#98
caroline!
dragontamer5788Most of the COVID19 demand spike was in the 40nm or 65nm older processes, for cars and washing machines.
Millenials discovered they could wash their clothes at home. 2020 was indeed a terrible year for laundromats.
Posted on Reply
#99
plastiscɧ
caroline!Millenials discovered they could wash their clothes at home. 2020 was indeed a terrible year for laundromats.
u must be a boomer with that kind of knowledge.... :D :D

Posted on Reply
#100
dragontamer5788
R-T-BAbout as much as circles usdc I'd wager. If you think 100% of their deposit assets are liquid, well, I can promise you they aren't.
If USDC is backed by a dollar, then why is Gemini Earn offering 6.36% APY on USDC deposits?

PayPal offers realistic return rates on dollar deposits. Something funky is going on with Gemini or USDC here.

There is no risk-free AAA bond or security earning that amount in a short term deposit account.

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PayPal, as a bank, is required to be backed by short term money market accounts, real dollars, and US Bonds (which at best, yield 3% right now)

Since Gemini can offer 6+% and still make a profit on USDC, that basically proves that USDC is being backed by something riskier than money market and bonds.
Posted on Reply
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