Dr. DroNot how it works, Steam is almost entirely written as a web application. By using [ICODE]--no-browser[/ICODE], you can see that the store, library, download manager and social features cease to function. but surprisingly the chat feature still works - it reverts to the 2010 UI version of the messenger. That way you can use Steam only in mini-mode and with the old messaging system (for as long as its backend remains up, anyway).

lmao, please don't try and tell me how it works, I write with and use CEF, you absolutely do not need to turn on the Sandbox, the sandbox is the only component of 110 and later that are requiring the newer windows kernel exports.

Soralmao, please don't try and tell me how it works, I write with and use CEF, you absolutely do not need to turn on the Sandbox, the sandbox is the only component of 110 and later that are requiring the newer windows kernel exports.

Yes, then you would know that it's not a simple matter of disabling sandbox, it's true that as Steam stands today, it would run correctly on an older version - who knows in a few months to a year.

I like the idea of a "Steam Classic", but if it means detracting already thinly spread resources from the main client, i'll give it a pass

SoraTheres no reason to not retain support for older OS's which can be achieved by simply not forcing the use of a performance reducing sandbox on the cef client.

Yeah, and then you open yourself to legal issues when someone is a moron. Legal ain't gonna go for that.

SoraTheres no reason to not retain support for older OS's which can be achieved by simply not forcing the use of a performance reducing sandbox on the cef client.

The back end of Steam is based on Chrome which is no longer supporting Windows 7 & 8. Hence why Steam is not either.

Dr. DroYes, then you would know that it's not a simple matter of disabling sandbox.

Spoken by someone that doesn't do anything with CEF.

R-T-BYeah, and then you open yourself to legal issues when someone is a moron. Legal ain't gonna go for that.

Uh, no.

CrAsHnBuRnXpThe back end of Steam is based on Chrome which is no longer supporting Windows 7 & 8. Hence why Steam is not either.

The backend can have its components picked and choosed from.

SoraSpoken by someone that doesn't do anything with CEF.

Well then. Please do enlighten us poor peasants as to why Chromium 109 can be maintained forever to satisfy the ego of irrelevant users of a 14 year old operating system.

I would genuinely love to hear your case out.

SoraUh, no.

Spoken like a person who doesn't still issue Half Life 2 patches out of fear for this reason.

SoraThe backend can have its components picked and choosed from.

If there is a component on the backend that is not sourced from within the company but outside (google chrome) and that outside company is no longer updating said component, then that becomes a problem.

I've booted my 2008 R2 installation and it seems the countdown of doom has been placed in the client's window, and cannot be dismissed:



Clicking it will link directly to the Steam Support article in the OP.

ThrashZoneHi,
Go ahead hell I dropped support of steam long ago hehe epic is way better :cool:
I haven't gamed on win-7 in a lot of years so no biggie :sleep:

EGS will drop it eventually, the market is moving on.

trsttteWindows 7 is no longer supported (not even extended support), and window 8.1 is also out of the door (I think it will still receive some security updates until july). Doesn't make sense to support a dead operating system, it's better to fix games that fail compatibility case by case from a security standpoint - there shouldn't be that many anyway

wait what? maybe that's what you believe but in reality things are different, there are still updates every month until 2024 incl. 2-4 security intelligence updates for windows defender, the 2 patchers below are required

for people who are interested, here:

BypassESU-v12
Win7 WU ESU Patcher
(archive pw for both: 2023)





windows 7 is dead? NO! for me this is absolutely perfect, next year i will switch to win 11 then so i don't care about the win 7 support end of steam

lanmanwait what? maybe that's what you believe but in reality things are different, there are still updates every month until 2024 incl. 2-4 security intelligence updates for windows defender, the 2 patchers below are required

for people who are interested, here:

BypassESU-v12
Win7 WU ESU Patcher
(archive pw for both: 2023)





windows 7 is dead? NO! for me this is absolutely perfect, next year i will switch to win 11 then so i don't care about the win 7 support end of steam

You're wrong. The enterprise ESU program has already ended as the three years have lapsed. The last regularly scheduled update for 7 and 2008 R2 has already been released and anything that may come in the future is out of band.

That patcher is technically piracy, by the way. This update stream is paid and not supposed to be accessed by end users. Not that I don't think Microsoft should have released the security updates for everyone regardless...

In addition:

- Drivers haven't been developed for it in several years
-It's impossible to run it with newer generation hardware
- Software developers have abandoned it
- With the loss of Chrome, you're now running an OS that can't run something as simple as Spotify, think about that for a second

Stop resisting. You're not cool by being a contrarian. Learn Linux if you dislike Windows 10 and 11 that much.

lanman2-4 security intelligence updates for windows defender, the 2 patchers below are required

I don't think new fingerprints for windows defender classify as the OS being supported (I'd even wager as more likely that right hand is not talking with the left one ;) ). Windows 7 Embedded, though very similar (some patches might even be compatible, I don't know), is also not the same as windows 7.

Windows 7 for consumers (and enterprise other than offline systems for that matter) is dead, workarounds don't mean shit when it comes to asking companies like valve to maintain support for it.

This is a big problem for me and every other retro enthusiast and nostalgic.
It's also literally exactly what every naysayer of Steam said would happen, and that Valve promised wouldn't happen.
(At least I feel confirmed in my seemingly insane feelings about Gaben retiring to New Zealand. "The Game Was Rigged From the Start")

A low-security fork with limited features, using 'authorization tokens' for decrypting games (generated from Steam on Android, iOS, or supported-Windows PC) would be a finaglesome but acceptable solution. (Basically, just re-create the old License Key system, modernized)

I bet Accursed Farms will have a video on this soon; he's big on Video Game Preservation.

LabRat 891This is a big problem for me and every other retro enthusiast and nostalgic.
It's also literally exactly what every naysayer of Steam said would happen, and that Valve promised wouldn't happen.
(At least I feel confirmed in my seemingly insane feelings about Gaben retiring to New Zealand. "The Game Was Rigged From the Start")

A low-security fork with limited features, using 'authorization tokens' for decrypting games (generated from Steam on Android, iOS, or supported-Windows PC) would be a finaglesome but acceptable solution. (Basically, just re-create the old License Key system, modernized)

I bet Accursed Farms will have a video on this soon; he's big on Video Game Preservation.

Valve for their part has kept their word, they've supported this miserably obsolete operating system beyond its breaking point, a full four years beyond it's end of life.

Still it's not a big deal. This isn't like the shift from NT 5.x/XP to modern Windows kernels.

Games that run under Windows 7 will run under 10 and 11 in 99.99% of cases, and the odd game that might not probably has a physical edition you can continue to run on an obsolete OS if you so absolutely insist.

It's a solution looking for a problem if you ask me.

neatfeatguyFolks could always just migrate away from Steam. I don't purchase anything on Steam anymore. My brother does gift me games, though, so I do still have ties to it for that reason (plus the library of games I had on it pre-2019 when I stopped buying games through Steam). I only pick up games on GoG now. I can download and save them where I want and I'm not tied to needing a digital platform, such as Steam, to install and play the games.

GOG is our friend

Dr. DroValve for their part has kept their word, they've supported this miserably obsolete operating system beyond its breaking point, a full four years beyond it's end of life.

Still it's not a big deal. This isn't like the shift from NT 5.x/XP to modern Windows kernels.

Games that run under Windows 7 will run under 10 and 11 in 99.99% of cases, and the odd game that might not probably has a physical edition you can continue to run on an obsolete OS if you so absolutely insist.

It's a solution looking for a problem if you ask me.

Oh, how familiar I am w/ that attitude; I used to hold the same.
Instead of viewing the tech as obsolete/eWaste, and the people 'outmoded', I began to actually appreciate the software, hardware, and the blood, sweat, and tears that went into 'em.
[sardonic]It only took me until my late 20s[/sardonic], even though I'd been an enthusiast since I was 12.

Windows 7 doesn't stop working because the world moved on; same for a 56K Modem, or Token-Ring NIC. It. still. works.

In years past "Unsupported" was merely a challenge for those technically-capable.
Now, companies (pro)actively try to kill their own older products, and remove support/features. Anyone that's okay with that, should realize they're harming themselves (in the long-term).



Storytime: One of my biggest regrets in 'eWaste' was a dual Socket 462 mobo+CPUs I was given by a tutor.
I've thrown out rarer kit, but I regret that one notably because I can consciously remember how petulant I was about it.
I'd just gotten my Core2Duo E6600 + Gb 965p-DS3 built, and was totally unimpressed by that dual-CPU workstation.
What's especially 'stupid' about the whole thing, was not but a few months later I put together a S370 build w/ leftover parts so I could have more than 1 friend over to game.
(Andrew P., I am SOOOO sorry I put you on that Tualatin Celery playing Company of Heroes and Halo w/ Chris I. and me! :laugh:)

LabRat 891Oh, how familiar I am w/ that attitude; I used to hold the same.

I won't change your mind as you are clearly biased due to heavy nostalgia, but if you look at it objectively, it's a fourteen year old operating system. Have you stopped to think how much has technology progressed? The mere notion you are complaining that you have to retire a 14-year-old OS proves that life has never been so good. When Windows 7 launched 14 years ago, using it on a (at the time) 14 year old PC would have been a preposterous proposition - and all anyone's asking is that you upgrade your OS, and keep all your software because it just works on the new one. You don't even have to buy a new PC, at most drop in some cheap surplus CPU upgrade and some equally cheap RAM to keep it trucking smoother.

Dr. DroI won't change your mind as you are clearly biased due to heavy nostalgia, but if you look at it objectively, it's a fourteen year old operating system. Have you stopped to think how much has technology progressed? The mere notion you are complaining that you have to retire a 14-year-old OS proves that life has never been so good. When Windows 7 launched 14 years ago, using it on a (at the time) 14 year old PC would have been a preposterous proposition - and all anyone's asking is that you upgrade your OS, and keep all your software because it just works on the new one. You don't even have to buy a new PC, at most drop in some cheap surplus CPU upgrade and some equally cheap RAM to keep it trucking smoother.

IT Security (good) Practices are not equal to Individual Ownership...

Fantastic job ignoring just about everything I said.
Though, I don't think you truly and consciously ignored what I said: I think you genuinely cannot fathom what I've learned to value, and find it easier to dismiss me as just another stupid nostalgic.

You do you; it probably makes you money.
I'm gonna keep on learning about (and respecting) oldtech (often, that existed before I was even born), and how it has influenced tech 'till this very day.

LabRat 891IT Security (good) Practices are not equal to Individual Ownership...

Fantastic job ignoring just about everything I said.
Though, I don't think you truly and consciously ignored what I said: I think you genuinely cannot fathom what I've learned to value, and find it easier to dismiss me as just another stupid nostalgic.

You do you; it probably makes you money.
I'm gonna keep on learning about (and respecting) oldtech (often, that existed before I was even born), and how it has influenced tech 'till this very day.

No, I'm just not attached to Windows 7, I have no emotional investment in it. I have no reason to, it's a mere tool that is now spent and replaced.

Anything that Windows 7 can do, Windows 10 (and 11, despite my personal dislike of its stock user interface) will do better, so what's really the point?

Dr. DroNo, I'm just not attached to Windows 7, I have no emotional investment in it. I have no reason to, it's a mere tool that is now spent and replaced.

Anything that Windows 7 can do, Windows 10 (and 11, despite my personal dislike of its stock user interface) will do better, so what's really the point?

I truly do not want to argue, but what you use as reasoning is not simply untrue.
Windows 10 and 11 cannot do everything earlier Windows' can. Neither, can they 'do better' in all scenarios where 'it does work'.

Have you tried running unsigned custom-made-by-a-real-individual-person drivers on 10 or 11?
Do you have software, peripherals, or other hardware that still is useful that just will not work (reliably) correct on newer Windows?
I have, and seen and spoken with professionals that have.

Simply put:
We value different things, and see utility in different ways.

I cannot argue with your opinions whatsoever, when in the context of IT-infrastructure.

LabRat 891I truly do not want to argue, but what you use as reasoning is not simply untrue.
Windows 10 and 11 cannot do everything earlier Windows' can. Neither, can they 'do better' in all scenarios where 'it does work'.

Have you tried running unsigned custom-made-by-a-real-individual-person drivers on 10 or 11?
Do you have software, peripherals, or other hardware that still is useful that just will not work (reliably) correct on newer Windows?
I have, and seen and spoken with professionals that have.

Simply put:
We value different things, and see utility in different ways.

I cannot argue with your opinions whatsoever, when in the context of IT-infrastructure.

But... Neither test mode nor the option to disable driver signature enforcement have been removed, and there's also a registry key that controls the ability to load insecure, cross-signed legacy drivers.

www.geoffchappell.com/notes/security/whqlsettings/index.htm

The boot menu is still present, you just access it in a different way now (restart PC holding shift) - or you enable it on every boot by using bcdedit. I'll agree that the removal of F8 on boot is a regression but, one that is easily remedied by a... sysadmin? It takes one line on cmd to re-enable it...

Dr. DroBut... Neither test mode nor the option to disable driver signature enforcement have been removed, and there's also a registry key that controls the ability to load insecure, cross-signed legacy drivers.

www.geoffchappell.com/notes/security/whqlsettings/index.htm

The boot menu is still present, you just access it in a different way now (restart PC holding shift) - or you enable it on every boot by using bcdedit. I'll agree that the removal of F8 on boot is a regression but, one that is easily remedied by a... sysadmin? It takes one line on cmd to re-enable it...

So, the status of unsigned drivers on 10 is/are still the same as it's been since I stopped trying: A royal PITA.

You got a jackrabbit you can pull out of your hat on loading 64-bit Windows 10 or 11 on Socket 939 and Socket 940 K8s?
(I already lost a bet on this one, so; I'd genuinely be really happy if ya did)

-Or will you just write off one of the biggest (r)evoloutionary leaps in personal computing as obsolete eWaste?

en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/infinity_fabric

The Infinity Fabric consists of two separate communication planes - Infinity Scalable Data Fabric (SDF) and the Infinity Scalable Control Fabric (SCF). The SDF is the primary means by which data flows around the system between endpoints (e.g. NUMA nodes, PHYs). The SDF might have dozens of connecting points hooking together things such as PCIe PHYs, memory controllers, USB hub, and the various computing and execution units. The SDF is a superset of what was previously HyperTransport.

I guess Ryzen and EPYC are trash, cuz it's based off something old....

LabRat 891So, the status of unsigned drivers on 10 is/are still the same as it's been since I stopped trying: A royal PITA.

You got a jackrabbit you can pull out of your hat on loading 64-bit Windows 10 or 11 on Socket 939 and Socket 940 K8s?
(I already lost a bet on this one, so; I'd genuinely be really happy if ya did)

-Or will you just write off one of the biggest (r)evoloutionary leaps in personal computing as obsolete eWaste?

en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/infinity_fabric

I guess Ryzen and EPYC are trash, cuz it's based off something old....

The problem with K8 (original Athlon 64s) is that it doesn't have a basic instruction that the kernel requires beginning with Windows 8.1. The original 8 will run on these chips, and 32-bit Windows 10 should still work as far as I know.

Ryzen has almost, if not absolutely nothing related to K8, K10 and heavy equipment family of hardware, though, and even if it did, it's modernized enough. I mean I owned a 5950X until recently, don't take me for an anti-AMD person, my criticism of them lately is out of frustration and not hatred.

Dr. DroThe problem with K8 (original Athlon 64s) is that it doesn't have a basic instruction that the kernel requires beginning with Windows 8.1.

I'm well aware. I spent 2 nights trying to work-around the check (I clearly made a foolish bet. :laugh:).

Dr. DroThe original 8 will run on these chips, and 32-bit Windows 10 should still work as far as I know.

8 is just as unsupported as 7 (largely because they're so similar).
My s939 machines have 4x 2GB and 2x 4GB DDR and my dual s940 has 4-8x 4GB DDR. A 32-bit OS 'aint cutting the mustard

(unless it was WinServer 2003 or 2009)
learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/memory/memory-limits-for-windows-releases

My PoV is not one purely of nostalgia; it's enthusiasm for technology and intrigue in the evolutionary brick-laying of new upon old. -There's also a pinch of historical preservation, mixed in.

LabRat 891I'm well aware. I spent 2 nights trying to work-around the check (I clearly made a foolish bet. :laugh:).

8 is just as unsupported as 7 (largely because they're so similar).
My s939 machines have 4x 2GB and 2x 4GB DDR and my dual s940 has 4-8x 4GB DDR. A 32-bit OS 'aint cutting the mustard

(unless it was WinServer 2003 or 2009)
learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/memory/memory-limits-for-windows-releases

My PoV is not one purely of nostalgia; it's enthusiasm for technology and intrigue in the evolutionary brick-laying of new upon old. -There's also a pinch of historical preservation, mixed in.

Sure, but you need to keep in mind that the K8 architecture was released 20 years ago, in 2003. That's a pretty good run, isn't it? And like you said, it won't stop working overnight. But that software will move on? It will, and must.