Dr. DroBro I can't even... You're including phones and office PCs in your arguing :kookoo: :laugh:

It's no wonder that you do such mental gymnastics, the truth is even in such purported configuration it's going to wreck both of those at the bench.

Unrelated note; I'm loving how not 3 months ago, everyone was literally angry with me for saying that the age of the run of the mill "16 GB RAM with 8 GB GPU" PC is past, but now they're literally screeching that manufacturers are releasing a mid-range product that is designed to be used on such a machine.

Smartphone mobile gaming has its place, but most PC games have game console design assumptions.

Again, "go big or go console or go handheld or go cheap (PC IGP)."

Within a PS5 generation, PC gaming above the $499 price tag can't be worst than the $499 PS5 experience!

Furthermore, PC gaming handheld device with AMD Ryzen 7040 'Phoenix' APU's (RDNA 3 12 CU) IGP is not limited by slowish PCIe 4.0 16 lane's 32 GB/s bandwidth. 'Phoenix' APU's (RDNA 3 12 CU) IGP with 128-bit DDR5-5600 has 89.6 GB/s bandwidth or 128-bit DDR5-6000 has 96 GB/s bandwidth.

Console costs are subsidized by software pack-ins, licensing costs and subscription services, though. The PC has always been unsubsidized hardware, and this time around PS5 and Series X hardware is just too fast for budget machines to be able to keep up.

A PC which will perform around the same as a PlayStation 4 Pro will cost about that much, provided you get a good deal on a GPU. Anything else, will cost more.

ValenOneLe console PS5/XSX hanno una riserva di memoria del sistema operativo, quindi si aspettano che siano disponibili 13,5 GB per i giochi. La VRAM da 10 GB a 12 GB è il minimo.

Non usano directx....sempre 10 tflop ha la gpu non puo competere con piu del doppio anche con 100 giga di ram

modmaxNon usano directx....sempre 10 tflop ha la gpu non puo competere con piu del doppio anche con 100 giga di ram

Xbox Series X's DirectX has unified memory support. PC's RX 6700 XT 12 GB is a good approximation for XSX and PS5 experience.

RTX 3070 Ti's full GA104 design with 96 ROPS is pretty powerful that was gimped by 8 GB VRAM. The professional GA104-based RTX 4000 SKU has 16 GB VRAM.

@ValenOne
to make it clear if it wasnt already: there is a difference between stating this card need more than 8gb vram, vs saying 8gb vram is doa. 2 completely different things.


most of 7B ppl will give a @#$%! about what console game developers think is "min needed".
there are at least, if not more, "below FHD" pc gamers (720 and lower) on the planet, than console owners altogether (counting ALL PS and XB).

just because game developers think games need more vram, instead of releasing a proper pc version or fix their console conversion mess,
doesnt mean those ppl will go out and buy a new gpu (with more than 8gb), ignoring they would still have to spend even more, to buy a new screen as well.

the fact that Nv got away with putting only 8gb on the 3060, is proof the (global) market still doesnt care,
if "1M of us techies" in a handful of forums around the globe, think its a waste to have less than 10gb.

so unless "developers" give ppl the money to buy "better" hw with "more" vram, its a mute point what amount of vram they want, as hw doesnt grow for free on trees.

Fry178@ValenOne
to make it clear if it wasnt already: there is a difference between stating this card need more than 8gb vram, vs saying 8gb vram is doa. 2 completely different things.


most of 7B ppl will give a @#$%! about what console game developers think is "min needed".
there are at least, if not more, "below FHD" pc gamers (720 and lower) on the planet, than console owners altogether (counting ALL PS and XB).

just because game developers think games need more vram, instead of releasing a proper pc version or fix their console conversion mess,
doesnt mean those ppl will go out and buy a new gpu (with more than 8gb), ignoring they would still have to spend even more, to buy a new screen as well.

the fact that Nv got away with putting only 8gb on the 3060, is proof the (global) market still doesnt care,
if "1M of us techies" in a handful of forums around the globe, think its a waste to have less than 10gb.

so unless "developers" give ppl the money to buy "better" hw with "more" vram, its a mute point what amount of vram they want, as hw doesnt grow for free on trees.

Stop defending the last gen VRAM storage targets. PS4's install base is more than doubles PS5's 32 million install base and it didn't stop game developers from releasing high VRAM-consuming games.

NVIDIA released RTX 3060 12 GB, not just the RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB variant. NVIDIA only has 19% of the PC GPU market i.e. it's a minority.

For the overspill situation, PCIe 4.0 16 lane's 32 GB/s direct texture fetch bandwidth is worst than Xbox One's 68 GB/s direct texture fetch bandwidth.

32 GB/s / 60 fps = 533 MB per frame
68 GB/s / 60 fps = 1333 MB per frame.

The combined install base for XSX and PS5 is more than 45 million in 2023 and it has reached critical mass to influence game design in 2023 and beyond.

Ryzen 7040 APU's 780M iGPU with 128-bit DDR5-6000 memory has up to 96 GB/s bandwidth and is not limited by PCIe 4.0 16 lane's 32 GB/s bottleneck.

Again, go big (high-end gaming PC), go console (PS5, XSX), go mobile (Qualcomm and Apple SoC dominance), go cheap (PC IGP casual).

+7 billion people don't have a damn about NVIDIA! +7 billion people do NOT equal NVIDIA! Qualcomm SoC smashed NVIDIA in the handle-held market!

lol, last response from me:
your clearly ignore the facts (ppl dont have more funds because of what games/developers want)
while constantly injecting mobile, which i never mentioned at all, nor would i compare it to pc gaming, as most gpus cost more than the handheld device, ignoring big differences in OS etc.

Fry178lol, last response from me:
your clearly ignore the facts (ppl dont have more funds because of what games/developers want)
while constantly injecting mobile, which i never mentioned at all, nor would i compare it to pc gaming, as most gpus cost more than the handheld device, ignoring big differences in OS etc.

You ignored real facts.

FACTS: NVIDIA is NOT the dominant GPU vendor for budget PC builds, desktop game consoles, and most mobile phone SoCs. You implied NVIDIA's 8 GB VRAM solution = +7 Billion people which is BS. Based on the Steam survey, causal PC gaming mostly use Intel IGPs e.g. hardware level that can play games like Genshin Impact which is a mobile phone game port that is above Nintendo Switch's IGP specs (Maxwell GeForce 920 level). I know my RX Vega 7 IGP from Ryzen 7 Pro 4750U beats Nintendo Switch's IGP. Developers for Genshin Impact are struggling to port their game on Nintendo Switch.

PC games that targeted 4 to 8 GB VRAM are from last-gen PS4/XBO and last-gen transition (PS4 Pro/XBX) console ports. PS5 and XSX have reached more than 45 million units that can influence console game design in 2023 and beyond.

1 GB to 2 GB VRAM PC GPUs can easily play Xbox 360 or PS3-era games. Transition into PS4 and XBO era has gimped PC GPUs with 1 to 2 GB VRAM and a certain NVIDIA Maxwell v2 GPU with 3.5 GB VRAM + 0.5GB fake VRAM i.e. Geforce GTX 970. Geforce GTX 970's VRAM debacle was repeated again for RTX 3070 and RTX 3070 Ti.

IGP with 128-bit DDR5-6000 (96 GB/s) is NOT limited by PCIe 4.0 16 lane's 32 GB/s limitation.

With a 60 fps target, IGP and 128-bit DDR5-6000 memory have about 1600 MB per frame.

During overflow situations with 8 GB VRAM, PCIe 4.0 16 lane's 32 GB/s limitation has 533 MB per frame when targeting 60 fps.

VRAM affects the game's primary artwork assets and RT is not primary artwork assets.

RTX 4060 Ti 8 GB VRAM's $399 cost has to compete against under $399 USD SKUs such as 12 GB VRAM equipped RTX 3060 and RX 6700 XT! pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#sort=price&c=499,501,495

12 GB VRAM equipped RTX 3060 and RX 6700 XT can deliver PS5 and XSX minimum gaming experience on the PC.

---
For the record, I have the following desktop GPUs
1. MSI Geforce GT 1050 2GB. (Ground floor HTPC).
2. ASUS Geforce GTX 1660 Super 6 GB. Currently installed with remote desktop work PC.
3. MSI RTX 3070 Ti 8 GB (Suprim X). (Won at bankruptcy auction). (Above ground floor HTPC, failed to keep up with XSX/PS5). To be replaced by MSI RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB.
4. MSI RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB (Gaming X Trio OC, I sold my 2nd ASUS ROG RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB to help fund RTX 4090).
5. Gigabyte RTX 4080 16 GB (Gaming OC).
6. ASUS RTX 4090 24 Gb (TUF OC).

I sold my RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB, GTX 980 Ti 6 GB, and GTX 1080 Ti 11 GB during the height of the crypto mining boom which in turn funded the two RTX 3080 Ti GPUs purchases.
I won and sold RTX 3060 12 GB and RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB from a bankruptcy auction during the height of the crypto mining boom.