las4070 SUPER is 8% slower than 4070 Ti and the Ti was launched 1 year ago, has been below MSRP many times since launch -> www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-super-founders-edition/32.html

A friend of mine picked one up for 660 back before summer with a game bundled, that he would have bought anyway, essentially he paid 590 dollars for his 4070 Ti, retracting the 70 bucks for that game.

Very great card for 1440p/240Hz which he use along with a 7800X3D. I tweaked his card to 25.000 GPU Score in TimeSpy easily. 4070 SUPER Founders gets 20800 or so -> www.guru3d.com/review/geforce-rtx-4070-super-founder-edition-review/page-21/

4070 Ti is still the better card and 4070 Ti SUPER will only be ~10% faster. Can't wait to see 4K/UHD comparisons showing those extra 4GB don't matter yet and when it will actually matter, the GPU will too slow to max games anyway. This is what always happen eventually. Alot of VRAM? Great, sadly GPU is not up to the task and you will be forced to lower settings and hence lowering VRAM requirement as well.

4060 Ti 8GB vs 16GB showed the exact same thing. Pretty much zero improvements, and you only saw improvements in games that neither of these cards can run anyway, meaning native 4K/UHD with RT etc. Not a scenario where you would use 4060 series -> www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-16-gb/

Most PC gamers don't even care about RT much, including myself, but I like all the other RTX features too much to leave Nvidia for now. Thats why I hope AMD will be able to improve their inferior features.

People can ramble about VRAM all they want but rarely adds to longevity, because GPU is the limiting factor. Just look at 6700XT today. Or 3090 24GB. Any last gen cards with current gen memory amount is much dated, not because of VRAM but because GPU is weak.

Besides 95% of PC gamers use 1440p or less. Looking at 4K/UHD results don't matter for many and very few GPUs will do it without using upscaling in demanding games, 4090 is the only true 4K card if you ask me. 7900XTX and 4080 can do it to some degree but depends on game. For lesser demanding games, many GPUs last gen included, can do 4K just fine. I am talking about truly demanding games here.

The 4060Ti showed that bus rate without Infinity fabric makes no difference to VRAM buffer.

kapone32I promise you that a 7900XT is plenty fast for Native 4K but I don't know what I am talking about I have only been using this PC since January 2023 and enjoying the hell out of Gaming. Now you tell me that my experience sucks because my card is about 20% slower in Nvidia features. What you are not realizing is AFMF or whatever it is called is going to make your argument moot, when people like me are always getting high FPS in all Games. Even the ones in my library that have no DLSS or Upscaling magic. I once again have to come back to when are we going to give Sapphire kudos for having the first iteration of working upscaling in their Trixx software.

The not sell notion does not hold water when the card has only dropped in price by $100 in price where I live. Don't believe me though just watch Kit Guru's review of the 4070 Super or read any of the TPU reviews of the 4070 Super.

Then we have not even talked about the rest of my system. As much as the 7900X3D gets maligned (AMD did not sample it) it is also the coolest running 5.7 GhZ CPU that happens to have 24 threads. Then I have MP 700 storage as my boot and main Game drive but there is nothing that does not make me smile when I turn on my PC.

7900XT is not fast for native 4K/UHD. Just no. Are you playing games at 30-60 fps?

www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-super-founders-edition/32.html

4090 is way way faster, 45-50% and even 7900XTX is 20% faster.

AM5 has slow boot times, not really smiling when using AMD platforms during boot. I hit my desktop within 5 secs on hitting the power button. This is one of the biggest problems on AMD. Insanely slow boot times. Luckily its not 2+ minutes anymore. Best you can get is like 30-45 sec. Sadly many boards are still at the 1+ minute mark.

7900X3D is the worst 3D model, since its a 6+6 config. Only 6 cores have 3D cache, 7800X3D is much better for gaming. This is why 7900X3D don't sell well. 7800X3D and 7950X3D is the way to go here.

Zen 5 launching soon tho. I will be on Zen 5 or Arrow Lake by Q4 when 5090 release.

Almost certainly these will drop to under $700 shortly, which would make them mighty tempting. AMD still has a massive hole between 7800 XT and 7900 XT though.

ZeroFMHow long those "features" will by available ? Dlss1 dead, dlss2 dead, dlss3 will by dead at end of 2024 because 5*** series is coming.
Devs have ZERO interest of dead or dying technology!
Took 3years to fix cyberpunk, look at alan wake 2 (4070s)4K :D 3FPS .
6year since RT is fancy shining "feature" but every RT game is broken with garbage performance

DLSS 2 dead? Haha good one. It soundly beats FSR 2.x+ and is available in pretty much all new games, along with DLSS 3 + FG and Reflex.

AssimilatorAlmost certainly these will drop to under $700 shortly, which would make them mighty tempting. AMD still has a massive hole between 7800 XT and 7900 XT though.

Absolutely, because 7900XT sales are low. Not even listed on Steam HW Survey. Meaning not even in Top 100 most popular GPUs on Steam.

At sub 600 dollars and with FSR and AFMF improvements, more will be interrested.

Sales must be great?

kapone32The 4060Ti showed that bus rate without Infinity fabric makes no difference to VRAM buffer.

Infinity Cache is nothing but a marketing buzzword from AMD. Nvidia raised cache 10-16 times on Ada, depending on mode, which is essentially Infinity Cache right there.

You also believe SAM is an AMD feature? Or that AMD invented Freesync? :laugh:

AMD invented absolutely nothing feature-wise in the GPU space in the last 10 years. Mention one thing. Their last invention was Mantle. All features since have been copy/paste from others, or loaning features, like VESA's Adaptive‐Sync and call it Freesync. Re-BAR and call it SAM. Etc.

Totallyiphones are not Apple's main revenue stream,

iPhone is still by far their (single)biggest revenue stream, the iOS/Mac ecosystem is something they've cultivated since iTunes became a hit post the Walkman era.
www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2023-q4/FY23_Q4_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf

They're getting there but still probably half a decade away, if not more.

kapone32This has to be the most narrative based argument I have read in a while. I will give you an analogy. When Ronaldo came back to Man United after 20 years he did an interview and complained that nothing had changed in terms of infrastructure. In 2021 I got a Gaming laptop for my Bday. It has a 3060 in it. When I went into the Nvidia software I felt the same way he did. You see I have not been on Nvidia since the GTS450 so you know that was a while ago.

The most popular PC Games. Do you think that my Steam Library is based on TPU Game reviews? I have been on Humble Choice since 2017 so I have games that are fun to play that you may never have heard of. Do you know how much fun Hell Let Loose is? Do you even know what Aria is? Have you even seen Spacebourne 2 or played Redout 2?

Nvidia invented their iteration of 12vHPWR don't blame SIG for their hubris. The new spec is a result of the SIG ATX 3.1 anyone.

People make it seem like raster is not the foundation of all of that Gaming. You should really look up the show the Computer Chronicles on Youtube and hear Tripp Hawkins talk about ray tracing in 1999. As much as Nvidia may dominate CP2077 in path tracing my 150+ FPS at 4K native does me plenty fine.

You seem to have a real thing for the 7900XT but I promise it is a good card. The price cannot be a negative when a 4090 costs more than an entire very well specced PC.

7900XT is not a good card for me. Just accept it. If 7900XT was a great card it would be selling like hotcakes, but no AMD GPUs are selling well. They are forced to cut prices to even make people interrested. And still they don't sell well.

lasInfinity Cache is nothing but a marketing buzzword from AMD. Nvidia raised cache 10-16 times on Ada, depending on mode, which is essentially Infinity Cache right there.

You also believe SAM is an AMD feature? Or that AMD invented Freesync? :laugh:

AMD invented absolutely nothing in the GPU space in the last 10 years. Mention one thing.

Yep you are right, Infinity Cache makes no difference and no AMD did not create SAM they just did the same thing Nvidia did with 12VHPWR. See the hypocrisy much? The only thing I guess AMD invented was chiplet but I guess that doesn't count. Wow.......

Vayra86You hear this guys, 12VHPWR is great, you can actually love a connector these days.

Wow. Someone's been in too deep lately eh... These comments are getting hilarious...ly sad.

Yes 12VHPWR is so great PCI SIG replaced the nvidia implementation of it with 12V2X6.
It is supposed to be less risk of melting but I don't trust it, IMO a new connector needs a better retention mechanism, a more robust one like the 8 pin pci-e connector has.

I don't prefer anything with cables, induction FTW :pimp:

kapone32Yep you are right, Infinity Cache makes no difference and no AMD did not create SAM they just did the same thing Nvidia did with 12VHPWR. See the hypocrisy much? The only thing I guess AMD invented was chiplet but I guess that doesn't count. Wow.......

You mean the MCM approach that failed for GPUs? Nvidia has better performance per watt by using monolithic approach and AMD was not able to scale RDNA3 up to compete with 4090

Scalability and lower power is the reason you go MCM, and they failed.

Hecate91Yes 12VHPWR is so great PCI SIG replaced the nvidia implementation of it with 12V2X6.
It is supposed to be less risk of melting but I don't trust it, IMO a new connector needs a better retention mechanism, a more robust one like the 8 pin pci-e connector has.

I have been using 12VHPWR since day one 4090 came out and clicked right in and runs flawless.

Instead of reading stuff on the internet, you should try first hand experience :laugh:

Poorly made adaptors and end-users were to blame. I am using native TYPE 4 Corsair connector. Works flawlessly and never going back to inferior 8 pin connetors.

AMD will use the new connector too going forward too.

Powering a high-end GPU with 3-4 x 8 pin connectors is terrible. Cable mess and ruins the entire build.

Failed? Do you know the biggest Intel & Nvidia GPU are also MCM :wtf:

las7900XT is not fast for native 4K/UHD. Just no. Are you playing games at 30-60 fps?

www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-super-founders-edition/32.html

4090 is way way faster, 45-50% and even 7900XTX is 20% faster.

AM5 has slow boot times, not really smiling when using AMD platforms during boot. I hit my desktop within 5 secs on hitting the power button. This is one of the biggest problems on AMD. Insanely slow boot times. Luckily its not 2+ minutes anymore. Best you can get is like 30-45 sec. Sadly many boards are still at the 1+ minute mark.

7900X3D is the worst 3D model, since its a 6+6 config. Only 6 cores have 3D cache, 7800X3D is much better for gaming. This is why 7900X3D don't sell well. 7800X3D and 7950X3D is the way to go here.

Zen 5 launching soon tho. I will be on Zen 5 or Arrow Lake by Q4 when 5090 release.

Considering all the posts here do you like get a cut of nvidia profits for every comment on these forums? Or worse yet you are doing all of this PR work for free?

Also yeah I guess der8auer also does not know nothing about that connector and it's just great

las7900XT is not fast for native 4K/UHD. Just no. Are you playing games at 30-60 fps?

I think you should look at the link you posted, 7900XT is faster than the 4070 Super in 4k.
tpucdn.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-super-founders-edition/images/relative-performance-3840-2160.png

las7900XT is not a good card for me. Just accept it. If 7900XT was a great card it would be selling like hotcakes, but no AMD GPUs are selling well. They are forced to cut prices to even make people interrested. And still they don't sell well.

If the 7900XT isn't selling well then why did Nvidia launch super cards and replace cards that were all criticized of being a bad value compared to RTX 3000 series, the 4070 and 4070Ti not having enough VRAM, and being too expensive compared to the 7900XT and 7900XTX.
The 7900XT is a fine card for people just wanting to play games, those that care about the nvidia features they're charging a massive premium on will buy an nvidia card anyway.
Also according to a TPU poll most people play games at native with no upscaling.
www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/whats-your-preferred-dlss-config.315504/

las7900XT is not a good card for me. Just accept it. If 7900XT was a great card it would be selling like hotcakes, but no AMD GPUs are selling well. They are forced to cut prices to even make people interrested. And still they don't sell well.

You go from the 7900XT to AMD drivers suck, FSR sucks, Raster is meaningless, AMD just rides coat tails and always fall back to sales like Steam hardware is the bible of hardware. Does Steam tell anyone how they form their data. I also agree with you that the narrative is strong though.

Hecate91I think you should look at the link you posted, 7900XT is faster than the 4070 Super in 4k.
tpucdn.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-super-founders-edition/images/relative-performance-3840-2160.png

If the 7900XT isn't selling well then why did Nvidia launch super cards and replace cards that were all criticized of being a bad value compared to RTX 3000 series, the 4070 and 4070Ti not having enough VRAM, and being too expensive compared to the 7900XT and 7900XTX.
The 7900XT is a fine card for people just wanting to play games, those that care about the nvidia features they're charging a massive premium on will buy an nvidia card anyway.
Also according to a TPU poll most people play games at native with no upscaling.
www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/whats-your-preferred-dlss-config.315504/

I am not talking about 4070 SUPER eh? 4070 SUPER is a 1440p solution. I am talking about 4K/UHD capable GPUs (without upscaling) and the only true 4K GPU is 4090, 4080 and 7900XTX is bare minimum if you ask me.

7900XT is not even in the top 100 most popular GPUs on Steam. Tells me everything I need to know.

kapone32You go from the 7900XT to AMD drivers suck, FSR sucks, Raster is meaningless, AMD just rides coat tails and always fall back to sales like Steam hardware is the bible of hardware. Does Steam tell anyone how they form their data. I also agree with you that the narrative is strong though.

I know reality hits hard.

Steam is the biggest and most popular gaming platform on PC, by far. Pretty much all PC gamers have steam installed. Tells a clear picture and Nvidia completely dominates.

AMD users have FOMO when they read about RTX features, I know.

Luckily TPU tested DLSS/DLAA vs FSR numerous times and Nvidia won every single time, even in Starfield which had FSR as default AA option. A simple DLSS/DLAA mod beat FSR here. Which was ready on day one (same time that AMD GPU users had no sun in the game, for months)

Instead of being in denial about Steam HW Survey, you better start submitting, however I bet you already done that. Did not help tho :laugh:

remekraConsidering all the posts here do you like get a cut of nvidia profits for every comment on these forums? Or worse yet you are doing all of this PR work for free?

Also yeah I guess der8auer also does not know nothing about that connector and it's just great

It just find it funny that AMD GPU users are in complete denial :laugh:

12VHPWR was good enough for Nvidia to keep using it on SUPER refresh ;)

Meanwhile AMD is in panic-mode and now lowers MSRP on their entire lineup. I can't wait to see their miserable FSR/AFMF Event on January 24th :laugh:

Ok guys it's settled, AMD needs to pack up RTG and close business, nothing is selling, they are not even on the steam charts, it's over.
Maybe they will offer a refund for their GPUs so everybody can actually just buy Nvidia.

Also somebody send out a note to MS and Sony, they need to switch up to Nvidia as well.

in all honesty it probably needs to be even cheaper at this point - $650. $799 would be a good price for the 7900XTX.

If you're building a rig, or configuring one at the mid-high end at at around $2000+ (the target for these GPUS) then $100-$200 more for 10% more performance and more features is an easy sell.

lasI have been using 12VHPWR since day one 4090 came out and clicked right in and runs flawless.

Instead of reading stuff on the internet, you should try first hand experience :laugh:

Poorly made adaptors and end-users were to blame. I am using native TYPE 4 Corsair connector. Works flawlessly and never going back to inferior 8 pin connetors.

AMD will use the new connector too going forward too.

Powering a high-end GPU with 3-4 x 8 pin connectors is terrible. Cable mess and ruins the entire build.

I'd rather trust Der8auer's testing on the 12VHPWR connector, and the news reports I have seen on connectors melting, rather than people insisting the connector is perfect.
I have also seen plenty of videos of repair technicians replacing melted connectors, I'd rather not take a chance on a ruined GPU over a terrible connector.
And I would rather have 3 8 power connectors, over worrying if I bent the connector too much, just use a case with no side window and you don't have to see any cables inside the case.

lasI am not talking about 4070 SUPER eh? 4070 SUPER is a 1440p solution. I am talking about 4K/UHD capable GPUs (without upscaling) and the only true 4K GPU is 4090, 4080 and 7900XTX is bare minimum if you ask me.

7900XT is not even in the top 100 most popular GPUs on Steam. Tells me everything I need to know.

You posted a link to a 4070 Super review, it seems like you're confused on what you're even trying to bash AMD on.

I don't buy a GPU based on what is the most popular on the steam survey, I buy based on performance and what I want from the hardware, an AMD card is better performance per dollar and I care more about rasterized performance, if I want to use upscaling AMD doesn't restrict upscaling features away from users like Nvidia did with frame gen on the RTX 3000 series.

las7900XT is not fast for native 4K/UHD. Just no. Are you playing games at 30-60 fps?

www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-super-founders-edition/32.html

4090 is way way faster, 45-50% and even 7900XTX is 20% faster.

AM5 has slow boot times, not really smiling when using AMD platforms during boot. I hit my desktop within 5 secs on hitting the power button. This is one of the biggest problems on AMD. Insanely slow boot times. Luckily its not 2+ minutes anymore. Best you can get is like 30-45 sec. Sadly many boards are still at the 1+ minute mark.

7900X3D is the worst 3D model, since its a 6+6 config. Only 6 cores have 3D cache, 7800X3D is much better for gaming. This is why 7900X3D don't sell well. 7800X3D and 7950X3D is the way to go here.

Zen 5 launching soon tho. I will be on Zen 5 or Arrow Lake by Q4 when 5090 release.

Oh now I see. We have a new Intel Nvidia brand loyalist in house. This should be fun. I guess since fancucker and fergatos are not commenting much anymore, the universe is trying to provide balance.

lasIt just find it funny that AMD GPU users are in complete denial :laugh:

12VHPWR was good enough for Nvidia to keep using it on SUPER refresh ;)

Meanwhile AMD is in panic-mode and now lowers MSRP on their entire lineup. I can't wait to see their miserable FSR/AFMF Event on January 24th :laugh:

The denial of the 12VHPWR being a flawed connector is just sad to be honest.
The 12VHPWR connector was replaced with the ATX 3.1 12V2X6, Nvidia did a PR campaign blaming it on the user, then quietly updated their cards to 12V2X6 without recalling all cards using the 12VHPWR connector.

So AMD lowering their MSRP means they're in panic mode, not just lowering price to remain competitive, and you think AFMF is bad without even having seen it. It seems like some people think nvidia shouldn't have any competition, and when AMD does have an alternative solution like FSR people always insist it is significantly worse even though you can't tell the difference when playing games.

phanbueyin all honesty it probably needs to be even cheaper at this point - $650. $799 would be a good price for the 7900XTX.

If you're building a rig, or configuring one at the mid-high end at at around $2000+ (the target for these GPUS) then $100-$200 more for 10% more performance and more features is an easy sell.

lasI am not talking about 4070 SUPER eh? 4070 SUPER is a 1440p solution. I am talking about 4K/UHD capable GPUs (without upscaling) and the only true 4K GPU is 4090, 4080 and 7900XTX is bare minimum if you ask me.

7900XT is not even in the top 100 most popular GPUs on Steam. Tells me everything I need to know.


I know reality hits hard.

Steam is the biggest and most popular gaming platform on PC, by far. Pretty much all PC gamers have steam installed. Tells a clear picture and Nvidia completely dominates.

AMD users have FOMO when they read about RTX features, I know.

Luckily TPU tested DLSS/DLAA vs FSR numerous times and Nvidia won every single time, even in Starfield which had FSR as default AA option. A simple DLSS/DLAA mod beat FSR here. Which was ready on day one (same time that AMD GPU users had no sun in the game, for months)

Instead of being in denial about Steam HW Survey, you better start submitting, however I bet you already done that. Did not help tho :laugh:


It just find it funny that AMD GPU users are in complete denial :laugh:

12VHPWR was good enough for Nvidia to keep using it on SUPER refresh ;)

Meanwhile AMD is in panic-mode and now lowers MSRP on their entire lineup. I can't wait to see their miserable FSR/AFMF Event on January 24th :laugh:

Well since you want to make it personal my PC is faster than yours with no personal opinions inserted so go on. Do you think that all TPU reviewers got free 4000 cards for nothing but good will? By the way Steam is used to play Games not compare hardware.

The reason your argument is so low brow is because AMD made how much money last quarter?

RDNA has been a success. Not the success that Ryzen has been but if you have been on AMD you have FELT the performance improvement. Vega 64 to 5600XT may have been a side grade but 6800XT from that was nice and now 79000XT(The one you love to hate) is the cat's meow. As I said before price is still a mitigating factor so when I looked at the 4090. I set my budget and bought a 7900X3D, 32GB of DDR5 and X670E Strix E with the $1400 I saved not getting the 4090.

Now I started with my PC is better than yours because you have a 9900K. I know you don't have the same venom for Ryzen but Nvidia did not try to buy ARM because they love being a single node maker. Look at the new MSI Claw and see that Intel realizes that the future is not High end Gpus for $2000+ but handheld PCs running capable APUs. Just look at how some are now copying Steam Deck OS. Just to bring it full circle the Steam Deck has been in the top 10 of Global Sales on Steam since launch. I wonder who is in the Steam Deck? Even though the Xbox sells way less no one can deny the sales of the PS5 and who is in that?

Now those products (Windows for now) are going to get a driver update that will make the argument of DLSS 3.5 or whatever moot when Xess and FSR are there. Indeed they better hope that Windows decides to incorporate Nvidia DLSS in Direct X or it might become an afterthought. Maybe not as bad as Physx but definitely Gsync. Oh I forgot AMD did not make that either, but they certainly have made it better. It is actually a button in the Software.

Excellent news.
Sending back my Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 7900 XTX Vapor-X (1178€) which is still in the Amazon Return window. 2 weeks waiting for the 4080 Super reviews and see what is going on with the prices. The MSI Suprim 4080 Superis currently on my radar.
Or i could drop to the 7900XT / 4070 ti super.
I trust TPU to illuminate our ways in this darkness.

After watching this and as an AMD fan AMD has some work to do, better get off their ass before I just ship.