What useless squabble about "gaming" CPU's :shadedshu:

Nvidia's probably plotting to pull everyone of their top draw/big die GPU's from "gaming" sector next gen, probably being the key word. Enjoy you $2k 5060/Ti gamers :nutkick:

www.businessinsider.com/nvidia-stock-price-jensen-huang-alphabet-amazon-magnificent-seven-charts-2024-2

Tek-CheckYou are not giving people a benefit of a doubt, but you make rushed conclusions with "if" qualifier. Not nice.
7800X3D came into the market later. Some people needed/wanted new systems before.
There are more simple factors guilding buyers, such as time or release, availability and geographical variance.
Stay open-minded before hurling judgments.

The 7800X3D was announced with the 7900X3D and 7950X3D and came to market 1 month and 1 week later. Not wanting to wait that little time for a cheaper and better performing gaming CPU is poor impulse control. If someone absolutely needed a new system in that brief window (exploding power supply?) or your use case was productivity there were other better options but for gaming use case the best choice would have been to wait for the better CPU rather than paying more for the slower CPU.

Edit:
If the use case is productivity I note that the 7950X was widely available from $550 beginning in November 2022, 4 months before the 7900X3D launched at $600. If gaming was a secondary use case then a 7950X is a very respectable CPU.

freeagentSounds like you have other problems. My 5900X rips it up.

I guess I need to insert “OBVIOUS JOKE” in all caps into posts like that if people miss it that much, huh.
I mean, I doubt there is an actual BSOD code consisting entirely of your CPU flipping you the bird.

GenericNinjaThe 7800X3D was announced with the 7900X3D and 7950X3D and came to market 1 month and 1 week later. Not wanting to wait that little time for a cheaper and better performing gaming CPU is poor impulse control

Please... are you playing a pseudo-psychologist here? It's none of your business. You could simply ask someone, while being courteous in the first place, why they made decisions they did. You are not here on this forum to make quasi-diagnosis of someone's personality or mental health. That's an overreach and you are expected to contain such judgements. Don't go there. It's not a territory you should venture into.

Besides, even if anyone is impatient and enthusiastic (aren't we all at times?), it does not really matter at the end, as the CPU can be tuned, as shown above by another member, for those willing to play with it. In addition, even if others buy more popular 7800X3D, it does not mean they made any good decisions regarding all other components in PC. World is more complex and devil is always in detail. Don't overmagnify attention on one part. Even if your shoes are not polished enough, you can still be successful when going out on a date. That's all to it.

kapone32This is after a nice session of Gaming, including TWWH3, The Gunk, AMS2 and Aliens Fire Team

The 7800X3D at 49W package power while also having #1 gaming performance is just amazing. One of the best CPUs of all time at realease.

I'm still running a 5800X but thinking a new build for the 9900X3D. I just hope AMD improve their boot time issues with Zen 4 for Zen 5.

Dr. DroI wasn't bashing it at all... in fact, for that price, I think it's a decent deal, just don't think it's worth it over a 7800X3D. If we talk productivity, my 13900KS will annihilate it, it's not even in the same league, granted, at probably twice the power consumption, but, yeah.

What dgian and imouto were trying to get is that due to its design constraints and tradeoffs, the 7900X3D is a jack of all trades and master at none. It'll lose to the 7800X3D and barely match the Core i7 in gaming performance, but it's going to get wrecked by the 7950X3D and the Core i9 in productivity, leaving it in this state of "might as well save 50 bucks and buy the 7800X3D, not needing to worry about core scheduling issues as all cores have 3D cache available" or "might as well just buy a Core i9 and get raw performance instead of fluff"

They can say what they want but every Game does not support Vcache and that is when the 2nd CCD is used at 5.6 GHZ.

Dr. Dro7900X3D is a jack of all trades and master at none. It'll lose to the 7800X3D and barely match the Core i7 in gaming performance, but it's going to get wrecked by the 7950X3D and the Core i9 in productivity, leaving it in this state of "might as well save 50 bucks and buy the 7800X3D, not needing to worry about core scheduling issues as all cores have 3D cache available" or "might as well just buy a Core i9 and get raw performance instead of fluff"

It's not designed to be "jack of all trades and master at none". That's misunderstanding. It's a compromise CPU between the other two X3Ds. It's main problem has been high price, until now. In the UK, there are deals today £401-£410.

As mentioned before and above (read it, if you have time), it's a niche CPU, not for everyone, but it's good we have more choices. I'd buy it, if I needed it. I do not need 7800X3D, as I need a bit more horse power for rendering, but I also do not need 7950X3D, because it's too much. 7900X3D is just there, in-between. It's fine. I do not understand the hostility from some people towards this SKU. It's nonsense. People just need to relax a bit. It's a good "problem" to have, to choose between several Zen CPUs.

However, I do agree that AMD could improve the offer in next gen and offer 8+4 instead of 6+6 option, to reduce the amount of tweaking people need to do on this SKU. We will find out soon how Zen5 offer looks like.

kapone32They can say what they want but every Game does not support Vcache and that is when the 2nd CCD is used at 5.6 GHZ.

True but then your performance can only at best match a 7600X. That's the entire point

Dr. DroTrue but then your performance can only at best match a 7600X. That's the entire point

LMAO, the 7600x does not have Vcache. You almost made me fall out of my chair. That is like saying the 5600X is just as fast as a 5900X not.

kapone32So regardless of people telling me that my CPU is useless or I made the wrong decision. I do not think that and am quite happy with my CPU. Happy enough to say yes at $409 it is an academic purchase.

Your CPU is not useless. It's fine. It may need some tuning to be even more polished, if you are willing to play with it, but this is minor.
And now, at ~$400, it's getting really competitive and a no brainer purchase for those who need it.

kapone32LMAO

You know it's true? The 7900X3D is a hypothetical 7600X3D + a 7600X, effectively. Just like the 50X3D is a 7800X3D+7800X.

Dr. DroTrue but then your performance can only at best match a 7600X. That's the entire point

This is brain dead nonsense.

Dr. DroYou know it's true? The 7900X3D is a hypothetical 7600X3D + a 7600X, effectively. Just like the 50X3D is a 7800X3D+7800X.

Keep your Intel, you don't understand Ryzen

Tek-CheckThis is brain dead nonsense.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but he was specifically referring to the non-X3D portion of the 7900X3D. It's not a secret that the Ryzen 9 X3Ds contain one die that's V-cache enabled and one that is not (standard design).

kapone32Keep your Intel, you don't understand Ryzen

I do understand Ryzen, although I never owned a X3D part. But I know how they work, since I've had two generations of Ryzen CPUs (Zen 2 and 3) - and still have a Zen 3 processor on my laptop. The non-X3D CCD of the 7900X3D is practically identical to the 7600X. Making use of the cache on the other die will incur a severe latency penalty as data is executing on a completely different CCD and CCX and have to go through the internal fabric to reach its destination. In other words, can be done, but nothing will because it incurs a performance penalty.

BTW to everyone bashing me. I could honestly care less as all of you are not owners of this chip lol.

Dr. DroCorrect me if i'm wrong, but he was specifically referring to the non-X3D portion of the 7900X3D. It's not a secret that the Ryzen 9 X3Ds contain one die that's V-cache enabled and one that is not (standard design).

The non X3D part is what it is but a 7600x is no where as fast as a 7900X3D in Windows. I am sorry but I can't stop laughing

kapone32BTW to everyone bashing me. I could honestly care less as all of you are not owners of this chip lol.

The non X3D part is what it is but a 7600x is no where as fast as a 7900X3D in Windows. I am sorry but I can't stop laughing

It's a strange way to cope, but it's... exactly as fast as the 7900X3D with the 3D cache die off would be. That's what i'm getting at... and what you implied when you said not every game supports 3D cache. Which is true, I just don't see the point in trying to refute this. It also hearkens back to the beginning of this conversation, by buying a 7800X3D, you get the whole gaming performance that 8 cores and single CCX/CCD + X3D benefits would give, by buying the 7900X3D, you either get performance similar to what a 7600X3D would do (most closely replicated by the 5600X3D today) or what a 7600X would do.

GenericNinjaIn any game it will be equal to or slower then a 7800X3D.

And that's fine, because it would behave like this by design. It's a trade-off for having another CCD for productivity applications, for those who need it.

kapone32I ran several 3D mark benchmarks during that too. I know that, we were talking about Gaming period. Not all Game engines are the same and some Games do push the CPU/GPU at 4K. I don't mean those E sports titles either. Look at the console ports that so many people cried about in 2023 that I am still trying to understand as I had none of those issues.

Dude, you have your averages right there, most cores are loaded in the single digit %.
This also means a lot of work has been hopping between cores. You're simply not using the overwhelming majority of this CPU's perf. There is no need for guessing, your numbers explain perfectly well why the CPU isn't hot. Its practically idling.

This, mind you, is my experience with an 8700K just the same. Games either don't sweat the CPU, or they choke on a singular heavy thread clogging the whole pipe. Its been like that since 1999. The movement on CPU in gaming is ultimately super stagnant. Its mostly architecture and RAM speeds that elevate CPUs to the next level for gaming: how fast can you feed that data for that single frame. That's exactly why X3Ds excel so hard in specific cases. They can feed faster. There used to be a time when clockspeeds mattered a lot. They still do, but even the slowest CPUs now clock beyond 4 Ghz so that's a non issue as well, this wasn't the case in the (-pre-) Skylake days. There used to also be a time when core count mattered a lot, but that was prior to the actual use of HT/SMT in games and new APIs like DX12.

Fact is, the reliance on a strong CPU has drastically dropped over the last decade when it comes to gaming. You can make do with a low end part for the majority of it.

Dr. DroIt's a strange way to cope, but it's... exactly as fast as the 7900X3D with the 3D cache die off would be. That's what i'm getting at... and what you implied when you said not every game supports 3D cache. Which is true, I just don't see the point in trying to refute this. It also hearkens back to the beginning of this conversation, by buying a 7800X3D, you get the whole gaming performance that 8 cores and single CCX/CCD + X3D benefits would give, by buying the 7900X3D, you either get performance similar to what a 7600X3D would do (most closely replicated by the 5600X3D today) or what a 7600X would do.

HAHAHA, I have a few brewskis in me now. Do you really believe what you are saying? Maybe that is why you got a 13900KS runs twice more power to achieve the same FPS as the 7900X3D. You can hate on this chip all you want but as I have established before I could care less what TPU users say when I am blown way by the Gaming performance of my PC. 6 core this and no way that could be faster than 8 cores until it is. I do not need a 7800X3D, I already bought my chip and you know what, When the next iteration of X3D chips come out I will be buying the 12 core part.

Vayra86Dude, you have your averages right there, most cores are loaded in the single digit %.
This also means a lot of work has been hopping between cores. You're simply not using the overwhelming majority of this CPU's perf. There is no need for guessing, your numbers explain perfectly well why the CPU isn't hot. Its practically idling.

This, mind you, is my experience with an 8700K just the same. Games either don't sweat the CPU, or they choke on a singular heavy thread clogging the whole pipe. Its been like that since 1999. The movement on CPU in gaming is ultimately super stagnant. Its mostly architecture and RAM speeds that elevate CPUs to the next level for gaming: how fast can you feed that data for that single frame. That's exactly why X3Ds excel so hard in specific cases. They can feed faster. There used to be a time when clockspeeds mattered a lot. They still do, but even the slowest CPUs now clock beyond 4 Ghz so that's a non issue as well, this wasn't the case in the (-pre-) Skylake days. There used to also be a time when core count mattered a lot, but that was prior to the actual use of HT/SMT in games and new APIs like DX12.

Fact is, the reliance on a strong CPU has drastically dropped when it comes to gaming. You can make do with a low end part for the majority of it.

I will post a Screenshot while Gamng. I was only trying to establish that all cores are used on my 7900X3D and since that is the case it is better than the 7800X3D. There are newer Games that take advantage of Multi Core CPUs. I mean I literally run my RAM at 5200 MTs.

dgianstefaniThis is also shown in how late production 5800X3D chips are worse and run hotter than early production ones, since the good bins go to server chips, and just about any die will hit the target frequency anyway since it's so much lower than the standard parts non X3D.

i'm not sure about this.

I've seen many early production 5800X3D chips that cannot do PBO -30 on all cores.

While my chip from april 2023 does it easily.

kapone32HAHAHA, I have a few brewskis in me now. Do you really believe what you are saying? Maybe that is why you got a 13900KS runs twice more power to achieve the same FPS as the 7900X3D. You can hate on this chip all you want but as I have established before I could care less what TPU users say when I am blown way by the Gaming performance of my PC. 6 core this and no way that could be faster than 8 cores until it is. I do not need a 7800X3D, I already bought my chip and you know what, When the next iteration of X3D chips come out I will be buying the 12 core part.

I... don't know why you're bringing up the fact I have a Core i9. It's irrelevant. We're not after you, we're just saying that there's better use of your resources and processors that will serve gamers better than the 7900X3D. It's neither the best at gaming nor the best at productivity. It's a compromise at both ways, and thus, an unpopular SKU. The reason you have such overwhelmingly positive views of it is that its capabilities far exceed your necessities. If you're talking about how snappy and responsive a system is, I doubt you'd correctly be able to tell even a lowly Ryzen 3 4100 crippled Renoir to a 7950X3D if they had the same SSD, amount of memory, etc. because running Windows and basic daily tasks... is just no challenge to a modern CPU. You can get by on a Core 2 Duo.

Dr. DroI... don't know why you're bringing up the fact I have a Core i9. It's irrelevant. We're not after you, we're just saying that there's better use of your resources and processors that will serve gamers better than the 7900X3D. It's neither the best at gaming nor the best at productivity. It's a compromise at both ways, and thus, an unpopular SKU. The reason you have such overwhelmingly positive views of it is that its capabilities far exceed your necessities. If you're talking about how snappy and responsive a system is, I doubt you'd correctly be able to tell even a lowly Ryzen 3 4100 crippled Renoir to a 7950X3D if they had the same SSD, amount of memory, etc. because running Windows and basic daily tasks... is just no challenge to a modern CPU. You can get by on a Core 2 Duo.

He's confusing subjective with objective, forgetting about relative, and dishing out a large dose of post-purchase rationalization. I don't think it's worth trying to help out more, many people have tried to clearly inform and educate, but it's falling on a mindset that won't change, but responds with vitriol and goalpost shifting.

GenericNinjaI think you need to find your Zen place. Too much emotional attachment to a purchasing decision can lead to unclear thinking. If you bought 7900X3D purely for gaming, you made a poor purchasing decision, just accept it and stop encouraging others to make the same mistake. No one said it wouldn't game or do productivity, just that it is beaten by every metric by other AMD processor SKUs.

Our objective of informing potential interested customers of reality has been achieved, lets move onto more worthwhile pursuits.

Dr. DroI do understand Ryzen, although I never owned a X3D part. But I know how they work, since I've had two generations of Ryzen CPUs (Zen 2 and 3) - and still have a Zen 3 processor on my laptop. The non-X3D CCD of the 7900X3D is practically identical to the 7600X. Making use of the cache on the other die will incur a severe latency penalty as data is executing on a completely different CCD and CCX and have to go through the internal fabric to reach its destination. In other words, can be done, but nothing will because it incurs a performance penalty.

We can have an academic discussion about the significance of latency penalty, but it may be practically fruitless. Also, CPU workloads below clearly show the capabilities of this SKU and it's pointless to split the hair in two and speculate about separate CCDs, especially calling on 7600X.

7600X is FAR less performant and less efficient than 7900X3D. And 7900X is just a little bit faster, but less efficient too.

MT performance	Power/workload/time efficiency (Wh)	Power/workload/time efficiency (KJs)

kapone32establish that all cores are used on my 7900X3D and since that is the case it is better than the 7800X3D. There are newer Games that take advantage of Multi Core CPUs. I mean I literally run my RAM at 5200 MTs.

Taking advantage doesn't matter as long as you're GPU limited which is the case in 99% of all games. And in the games where you are CPU limited, the 7900X3D isn't faster. But let's leave it here, I don't think we're going to understand each other better :)

dgianstefaniThis is also shown in how late production 5800X3D chips are worse and run hotter than early production ones, since the good bins go to server chips, and just about any die will hit the target frequency anyway since it's so much lower than the standard parts non X3D.

Any source link to such tests?