Wednesday, September 25th 2024

AMD Rushing in Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Expect Product Launch Late-October

Sep 25th, 2024 12:46 Discuss (117 Comments)

Facing poor sales of its Ryzen 9000 "Granite Ridge" desktop processors, and with the spectre of Intel's Core Ultra "Arrow Lake-S" looming, AMD is rumored to have given its desktop processor roadmap a shakedown. The company is working to rush in at least one of the three upcoming Ryzen 9000X3D series processor SKUs. The Ryzen 7 9800X3D is a successor to the popular Ryzen 7 7800X3D. It pairs the new "Zen 5" microarchitecture with 3D V-cache technology to boost gaming performance. AMD is allegedly rushing the 9800X3D for a late-October launch. If this chip meets its performance targets (of around 15-20% over the 9700X), then AMD hopes it could take the edge off Intel's Core Ultra 200-series.

Launch of a Ryzen 9000X3D series product-stack became inevitable when AMD confirmed that the "Zen 5" CCD has silicon-level preparation for 3D V-cache (such as TSVs over the region with the on-die L3 cache that interface with the stacked L3D silicon), however, it was expected that the non-X3D Ryzen 9000 series, such as the 9700X, would perform close to the 7800X3D in games, giving AMD room to launch the 9800X3D in Q1-2025. Prior to the 7800X3D and Intel's 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake," the Ryzen 7 7700X nearly matched the gaming performance of the Ryzen 7 5800X3D, and so something similar was expected of the 9700X. Of course things didn't go to plan, the 9700X fell significantly short of the 7800X3D in gaming, resulting in mixed reviews and low sales.

The 9800X3D won't be the only chip from the 9000X3D series, there are also the Ryzen 9 9900X3D and new flagship 9950X3D planned, however, zhangzhonghao, the user behind this leak, says that the dual-CCD processors will do something different to the 7900X3D and 7950X3D to attract the class of buyers that wants both flagship gaming performance and productivity performance competitive to the Core Ultra 9 285K. The user did not elaborate on what these "new features" are, but if we were to guess, it's likely that both CCDs on the processor get 3D V-cache. The 9900X3D and 9950X3D are on-track for a Q1-2025 release.

Sources: harukaze5719 (Twitter), zhangzhonghao (ChipHell forums), VideoCardz

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117 Comments on AMD Rushing in Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Expect Product Launch Late-October

#51

Battler624

phintsMy 5800X build is 4 years old... 9800X3D or 265K. What will it be boys?

If only you get the 5800X3D instead :P

#52

SL2

SIGSEGVIMO, the considerable price gaps/aggressive price cuts may explain the sale.

That doesn't explain the 9000 barely making it to top 25.

#53

Sykobee

SL2My only guess, or more like a wish, for 9900X3D and 9950X3D is 1 x 16 core Zen5C chiplet with even more V-cache as a compensation.

I don't know anything about the cons of using a 5C chiplet, besides having half of L3.

I think they will stick TWO V-cache dies on top of one or both CPU chiplets.

However Intel has been pushing the small core count on their chips, so your idea has merit.

8C Zen5 with 128MB dual-layer V-Cache
16C Zen5C (no V-Cache)

48 Threads.

Or the above, but switch the V-Cache around to the Z5C chiplet, so the Z5 can run full speed.

net2007AMD clearly does not have good marketing practice. They should be releasing their best SKU first. What a disaster.

Maybe they need a Z series for Desktop (to match handheld Z1 Extreme, etc).

Instead of a Ryzen 7 9800X3D call it Ryzen Z 9800 or similar. RyZen.
RAIZen, get some AI in the branding :/

#54

SL2

AMD Rushing in Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Expect Product Launch Late-October

Did someone actually say `"Rushing", or is it just clickbait?

Several posts says "Oh no, AMD shouldn't rush things", and rightfully so, yet when I look I find no info about it being rushed? :rolleyes:

SykobeeI think they will stick TWO V-cache dies on top of one or both CPU chiplets.

Two? I think we would be talking about diminishing returns there.

More cores under the same roof/CCD/chiplet with V-cache would be great, even if highly unlikely. Yes, I called it a wish in the first post..

#55

GoldenX

KLMRInstead of rushing a new CPU why don't they rush the Windows and BIOS patches to make their CPUs run fast and properly?

Why would anyone care to update their PC if its clear and present that some windows patches can boost the cpu half the way of a new platform?

Trying to rush Microsoft is a fool's errand.

#56

Wirko

SykobeeI think they will stick TWO V-cache dies on top of one or both CPU chiplets.

Why not, haha. TSMC did state that their hybrid bonding (copper to copper bonding) tech could be used to stack more than two chips.

And here's my speculation: the V-cache chip contains additional L2 too, not only L3.

#57

redzo

I think that they they've actually listened when they launched zen 5. A lot of the press blamed them for following intel and setting the power too high on zen 4. They've listened and gave us lower power parts. But what went wrong is that zen 5 isn't that much faster compared to zen 4.
I think and hope it is time for those dual die - dual cache parts.

#58

kondamin

will take some wind out of intel's sails but it won't boost sales

#59

Makaveli

Battler624If only you get the 5800X3D instead :p

late on that boat production has stopped on them and they are getting hard to find unless you go to Ebay and get fleeced.

#60

Wasteland

SL2Did someone actually say `"Rushing", or is it just clickbait?

Several posts says "Oh no, AMD shouldn't rush things", and rightfully so, yet when I look I find no info about it being rushed? :rolleyes:

The sooner AMD releases it, the sooner we can start the requisite 6+ months wait timer for the post-launch kinks to be ironed out. I'm only half kidding. At this point I wouldn't buy a new CPU on launch day, or even in the launch month, from either AMD or Intel.

#61

Visible Noise

Considering how AMD launches have been going recently, the last thing they should be doing is another rushed launch.

AMD seems unable to learn from their mistakes.

#62

evernessince

SL2I'm pretty sure dual V-cache chiplets have been debunked by AMD, it's not worthwhile.

Not debunked, AMD just stated that the returns were diminishing.

That was with prior gen though, we don't know how this new architecture interacts with the 3D cache or what benefits 2nd gen 3D cache will bring.

Even if we assume that 2nd gen 3D cache brings the same performance uplift, AMD might decide to use multiple cache chiplets simply because Intel is a threat. It's really the same reason AMD hasn't upped core counts at each tier, because Intel hasn't provided them enough reason to need to yet. At the end of the day competition drives the market.

#63

wolf

Better Than Native

PumperSo, after reports of delay to 2025, no they are rushing it? Intel's new CPUs must be impressive if AMD got spooked.

My money is on trying to salvage the reputation of 9000 since the bungled launch of the first models.

#64

ir_cow

So a 7800X3D with a higher cost :)

#65

z1n0x

SL2Finally someone with a decent explanation. Do you know the limit for them? I've seen 5.1 GHz in HX 370.

That's the frequency of "Classic" Zen5 core. The frequency of the "Compact" Zen5c core is 3.3 GHz.

SL2Now you lost me again lol. We're talking 3D CPU models here, which actually has a lot of cache. With current 3D models having 12 MB L3/core, and 5C having 2 MB/core, you'd have to add V-cache.

You can't add V-Cache to the "Compact" core, because as @dgianstefani pointed out, the "Compact" core lacks the TSV (Through-Silicon Vias). TSV are the connections that join the V-cache to the base core die.
If you're thinking of adding another level of V-Cache on the "Classic" core. Then you (well, the engineers) have to consider a lot of factors. Complexity, cost, heat density, diminishing returns.
You can't just add more of something and expect it to work better. Processor design is about the balance between the difference aspects of the architecture, hence the name Zen.

#66

529th

Excited to see what features the dual CCD 3D chips bring. My luck, I'll buy the 9800X3D and the dual CCDs 3D chips will out perform a single CCD 3D chip in games, lol

#67

Wirko

z1n0xIf you're thinking of adding another level of V-Cache on the "Classic" core. Then you (well, the engineers) have to consider a lot of factors. Complexity, cost, heat density, diminishing returns.

If this ever becomes reality, it will be in some variant of Epyc, for some very specific tasks, where the returns are not diminishing (and license costs are per core).

#68

R0H1T

Visible NoiseConsidering how AMD launches have been going recently, the last thing they should be doing is another rushed launch.

AMD seems unable to learn from their mistakes.

Tell me one hardware launch which has been 100% perfect according to "PCMR" expectations :rolleyes:

WastelandI'm only half kidding. At this point I wouldn't buy a new CPU on launch day, or even in the launch month, from either AMD or Intel.

Right and part of the reason is that the client side of things is so much more vast & different/varied than 10 or even 5 years back! You can have people running PS3 emulation, running Cinebech 24*7 or doing BOINC, geekbench et al. The software today is also a lot more complex & there's a ton of security issues as well. This isn't such a big deal with servers per se where you run everything in a controlled environment!

#69

phanbuey

dgianstefaniNo, because the reason they removed the TSVs is to save space, it's no longer a compact core if it has all that stuff.

TSVs have negligible impact on die size... they saved space by primarily removing the cache. Which is why it would make sense to have 3d cache layer on top.

#70

LabRat 891

New IoD for 9000 x3d? Or firmware level changes; like, games being isolated to 1 CCD?

#71

oxrufiioxo

LabRat 891New IoD for 9000 x3d? Or firmware level changes; like, games being isolated to 1 CCD?

I think the bigger hope from most is that the latency to dram is what's holding back Zen5 compared to Zen4 and that the cache will alleviate that issue at least for gaming.

Any radical changes will have to wait for Zen6.

#72

Minus Infinity

AMD's is on a roll, maybe they'll launch it with two 4 core ccd's and v-cache on just one ccd to shoot themselves in the face again.

HBSoundI want the AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D, but how long will I wait? What is the first of the year? mmmmm

Probably announced at CES.

SIGSEGVI am sorry. Do you have valid data/evidence to back up your claim?

Do your own research. Plenty of tech sites have stories about this and the sales data being reported from multiple retailers.

#73

Taraquin

I would be surprised if it performs better than 5% above 7800X3D on avg. Still a good move from AMD launching the "winner" early on, especially when fighting Arrow lake which I presume will be a good launch.

#74

cerulliber

natr0nThose guys in the AMD testing labs are probably working their asses off.

No,they are not. Zen5 launch proove that. They launched beta-testing, unfinished products with beta-bioses and nearly zero ipc on gaming. I have zero trust in amd corporation after their gaming presentation in zen5 and I will wait for independant and fair reviews before upgrade decision. I refuse to be a beta tester or buy mvp products on my money. This isn’t case for early adopters with no budget limits and just buy it attitude.

#75

Peterson!

SL2My only guess, or more like a wish, for 9900X3D and 9950X3D is 1 x 16 core Zen5C chiplet with even more V-cache as a compensation.

I don't know anything about the cons of using a 5C chiplet, besides having half of L3.

This will be nice, because no one will pay 500$ average for new motherboards if the performance uplift does not be minimum 30% in comparison with the 7800X3D. and this will add more than this performance in order the new motherboards with the 870 chipset to be sold, or else no sales.

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AMD Rushing in Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Expect Product Launch Late-October

117 Comments on AMD Rushing in Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Expect Product Launch Late-October