rybotoI care, because it's the K10, it's going to come to the desktop, so why not compare it?

Is the xeon the same?

No.

Is a barcelona going to necessarily be the same?

No.

Remember how AMD originally wanted to seperate socket 940 from 754?

What makes you think they wont? Intel did.

A sign of major improvement is a sign of major improvement, one way or another that is what we all should hope to see. If AMD does not keep up on improving technology you can expect Intel to back down and take it easy in another year or two as well. Lets keep the ball rolling!

rybotoI care, because it's the K10, it's going to come to the desktop, so why not compare it?

You just quoted the answer to your own question. :S

DippyskoodlezIs the xeon the same?

No.

Is a barcelona going to necessarily be the same?

No.

Remember how AMD originally wanted to seperate socket 940 from 754?

What makes you think they wont? Intel did.

The new Xeons use Core 2 architecture....so, how are they not similar? So, you're telling me, a comparison of the Barcelona against the Current Kentsfield Xeons isn't proper? Of course they'll have different chipsets and other factors, but you're saying that we can't make comparisons????? Fine then, lets not compare Barcelona to the desktop, lets compare it to server parts, because that will be their major competition. Since Barcelona is going to be completely different from the arch used in Agena or Kuma chips! Really, I don't understand your stance here. Are you basically saying the only way to compare the two arch's is to use the exact same components? Why can't we make a platform comparison?

rybotoWhy can't we make a platform comparison?

Do you not understand what we are comparing here?

the Xeon has QUAD CHANNEL DDR2.

The core 2 duo does NOT.

The arena is like comparing a nascar car to an F1 car.

They are different.


besides, you aren't actually "comparing" the CPU's because theres no performance data anywhere in this thread.

This it should remain, a server CPU argument, because its in no way shape or form related to the desktop as no specifications about the CPU are known other than a clockspeed.

Chances are a dual dual core Xeon is going to stomp a core 4 quad desktop CPU.

Well first of all the current Xeon MP's don't use the Core2 architecture, so bye bye argument of them being the same. (still stuck using Netburst, Core2 variants will appear in September)

Next to that, we're not talking about a small difference, we're talking about a completely different infrastructure, Tigerton will utilize CSI instead of the current FSB, it has many interlinks to handle the bandwidth for the 16 cores these beasts will initially house. Look at IBM's X4 chipset for example. IBM you say? Yes, IBM makes chipsets for these kind of systems, completely different league.

Long story short, wait for both platforms to appear, then see how they perform, forget about C2D and Xeon DP's here.

DanTheBanjomanWell first of all the current Xeon MP's don't use the Core2 architecture, so bye bye argument of them being the same. (still stuck using Netburst, Core2 variants will appear in September)
.

www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117094

You can't multi-CPU those? ;)

Last I checked, woodcrest and clovertown were core based :)

Woodcrest and Clovertown are Xeon DP's, not MP's. You can't run them in multi_CPU configurations.

So whats apple use to get a dual woodcrest?

store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/BizCustom.woa/6314008/wo/pM1dOnyABbdT2o6HAd01fYl1Geu/1.?p=0

DippyskoodlezSo whats apple use to get a dual woodcrest?

store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/BizCustom.woa/6314008/wo/pM1dOnyABbdT2o6HAd01fYl1Geu/1.?p=0

Dual != multi. Completely different market.

DanTheBanjomanDual != multi. Completely different market.

Multi = >1 ;D

Anything 4+ is really not a concern for 99% of the population here xD

However, the dual CPU argument remains the same. Its different.

Xeon DP = Xeon Dual Processor, 5000 series
Xeon MP = Xeon Multi Processor, 7000 series
Has been like that since the first Xeons, they're 2 completely different markets. Same with the Opterons, 1xx, 2xx and 8xx.

DanTheBanjomanXeon DP = Xeon Dual Processor, 5000 series
Xeon MP = Xeon Multi Processor, 7000 series
Has been like that since the first Xeons, they're 2 completely different markets. Same with the Opterons, 1xx, 2xx and 8xx.

They haven't migrated the core series to 4+ cpu's yet?

Thats insanely retarded. I figured that would be one of the first places they would want to stick the suckers.

That's what I said yes, Tigerton will be the first Core2 Xeon MP. Though it will introduce a lot of new features, really has a huge potential. Then again, like you said, this market isn't for us.

I just wanted to clear up some things regarding K10 MPU(Barcelona,Budapest,Phenom).

First of all,Barcelona is a K10 server part that fits in both Socket F and SocketF+(split power planes) with only the BIOS update(info directly from AMD!!).So it's backwards compatible with ANY socket F motherboard for dual core Opterons currently shipping(RevF stepping).Second ,Barcelona is K10 chip with HyperTransport 1.0 support,not HT3.0.Barcelona is coming in August with speeds up to 2Ghz,with Tier 1 suppliers having the systems in September.Both standard and HE(low power ,68W) versions will be available.

The HT3.0 K10 chip is codenamed Budapest and will come in late Q3,early Q4 and will be a workstation MPU,for uniprocessor systems( UP).It will fit in ANY AM2 or AM2+(split power planes) with only a BIOS update!!So it's not a desktop CPU,but will work regardless of that in any desktop mobo(provided the BIOS is available).


Phenom is Ht3.0 desktop part which comes in November and is basically identical to Budapest and Barcelona(only the Barcelona has HT1.0).Chip has all the features of K10 core arch(improved OoO,32 byte instruction fetch ,L3 cache,improved mem. contrl with prefetch function,L1 direct prefetching,doubled L1 bandwidth,128bit FPU/SSE,SSE4A instruction set,increased number of fast path(direct path) instructions etc.)
Phenom will wit in ANY AM2 or AM2+(split power planes) with only a BIOS update needed.

All K10 CPUs have DDR2 integrated mem. controller with support for DDR2 memory(rumor has it that they do support DDR3 also,but still just a rumor).All K10 CPus,when ran in AM2+ mobo can clock independently the mem. controller from the CPU cores.So meme .controller has it's own PLL and can work on higher or lower freq.This will have a large impact on OCing,since the mem. controller has its own voltage plane and can work on less volts and less freq. than the cores themselves.
All K10 CPUs have much better power saving features than K8(and Conroe,Penryn).This will allow K10 to be the most power efficient CPU on the market.
All K10 CPUs will receive a die shrink to 45nm with some arch. improvements in Q3 2008,and will be a competitors to intels Nehalem.All this K10.5(shrank) CPUs will have increased L2&L3 caches,SSE4(full subset) and other improvements to SSE and ALU engines(to help them compete better with nehalem)

I just wanted to post this information since i saw that too many people on this board really don't have correct informations about K10 and motherboard support for it,so i wanted to clear up some things.
I must say that these specs are correct and not just some speculation.
Hope this info helps clear the confusion around the mighty K10 ;)


Regards
inf

informalI just wanted to post this information since i saw that too many people on this board really doesn't know correct inform. about K10 and motherboard support for it,so i wanted to clear up some things.
I must say that these specs are correct and not just some speculation.
Hope thsi inf ohelps clear the confusion around the mighty K10 ;)


Regards
inf

never seen you before. (lookie, just signed up :p )

But I'm curious as to where you got info :)

L3 cache

:eek:

I'm pretty sure most of those were announced in the past, but theres just no benchmark information at hand, so we really can't conclude much for performance.

It sure sounds like its got some extra muscle coming, but it needs to hurry or its going to be competing with even more muscle from intel...

L3 cache is old news,look at Analyst Day 2006.So its practically 1 year old info.
Yeah,i registered here since i couldn't believe my eyes when i read some posts :(.I thought people here knew more about K10,but lets hope it all changes since K10 is practically 1.5 months away from public demonstration.

PS Info was from various friends ;) and from public(Ace's hardware forum) and Analyst day papers.Also those pesky little patents at US patent office could get handy :).

informalL3 cache is old news,look at Analyst Day 2006.So its practically 1 year old info.
Yeah,i registered here since i couldn't believe my eyes when i read some posts :(.I thought people here knew more about K10,but lets hope it all changes since K10 is practically 1.5 months away from public demonstration.

PS Info was from various friends ;) and from public(Ace's hardware forum) and Analyst day papers.Also those pesky little patents at US patent office could get handy :).

:roll:

A lot of the old info is just..... old.

If its true, they probably won't be changing a ton as right now I would imagine they're working on getting it made..

They are stockpiling Barcelona as we speak :).They have been doing that since last 3 months lol :).

And there is no "if it's true".No if at all.
L3 is one major arch . improvement AMD made when they designed K10.Although it isn't the greatest of all ,it is the one that people get stuck on when they read the specs on the newegg :D.And it will bring a lot in multithreaded apps and multitasking environments.

informalThey are stockpiling Barcelona as we speak :).They have been doing that since last 3 months lol :).

And there is no "if it's true".No if at all.
L3 is one major arch . improvement AMD made when they designed K10.Although it isn't the greatest of all ,it is the one that people get stuck on when they read the specs on the newegg :D.And it will bring a lot in multithreaded apps and multitasking environments.

Its... L3 :ohwell:

Aren't they sharing this like Intel does, though?

Its not so much the addition of L3, but more so the implementation.

Happen to have any CPU diagrams laying around? :D

I'd really like to see how its laid out in comparison to the K8 currently.

Yes i do :).I will be adding the photo of die plot soon.Stay tuned :).

Here ya go:

chip-architect.com/news/2007_02_19_Various_Images.html (all cores from K8 to K10,Conroe and Penryn included)

Here is a K10 core(without Mem. controller and L3) overview diagram:



Here is a die plot(all parts included):

informalYes i do :).I will be adding the photo of die plot soon.Stay tuned :).

Win. :)

Looks like we should see a significant improvement with ddr2, alone.

www.realworldtech.com/includes/templates/articles.cfm?ArticleID=RWT051607033728&mode=print

I don't even know what you guys were arguing with me about before. Newegg is selling Kentsfield Xeons, aren't those Core2? In any event, I want to see some benchmarks, not this paper launch crap. They must have gotten at least 1 system to work up to par at this point, why not show the public some performance comparisons that live up to the hype they've been trying to sell us.

I couldn't upload from my PC so i had to lookup on the net :).Anyway,my die plots are way better than yours :P.

informalI couldn't upload from my PC so i had to lookup on the net :).Anyway,my die plots are way better than yours :P.

?

:p

From my link above.