This doesn't really take the screen into account. This is probably only me though since I don't have time to watch TV thus don't own a TV :D

You would probably want something of decent size if you are doing more then single player and/or sitting far away like normal. 32" Bravia V series goes for $1699NZD here.

GSG-9What? 500? are you on crack kid? thats sure as f_*k not a mid range. :shadedshu

I don't know what you call midrange, but 500$ is mid range in my book.

In my opinion, a good mid-range card is 500$. You can get a midranged midrange card for around 300$ bucks, but that's still practically the price of a console.'

EDIT:

It seems this is hard for you to conceptualize, so I'm going to make it very clear:

Low range:
www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+4017&name=%24100+-+%24200
www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+4018&name=%24200+-+%24300

Medium Range:
www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+4019&name=%24300+-+%24400
www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+4020&name=%24400+-+%24500

High-end (dream):
www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+4021&name=%24500+-+%24750

Those are limited searches and only provide so many hits, but if you can't understand that than you can't understand graphics card categories.

the problem is the quality of PC games - i just got R6: vegas - and its a crap port. WHY cant they use different keys for the features, instead of one key for everything?/ (R controls reload, rate of fire, weapon mods (silencer), grenades/equipment loadout.)

Seriously - its annoying to not have them split up. its so sensitive and clicking doesnt control it.

Wonder why its more popular on console? because THEY DONT CARE. they all have teh same controllers, so its all the same to them - we want CHOICE.

GSG-9If you remember the low end of the high end did not start at 200 eather. The 3870s
are a new price range for cards. For the past five years it has been high end at 500+ (Some later card at 1000 tops) low hiend at like 400 then down to 300ish and mid and below at 250 and down.
ATi has RELEASED their high end setup at just over 200. What do you want? Then to add in 4 gigs of ram on the side. Its not a 8800XT, but it really is on the same field after its clocked up. As for smooth running, my (now $180) videocard runs it excellently at 1280x800. sure they need SLi support but you know what, so did crysis (crossfire). Even though you cant run it happily on your 6150 (speaking from experience.) and you could with 04, there was no new pricepoint then. The market has changed a bit.

I see your point about the graphic card situation, but a graphic card back when ut2004 came out it would last a lot longer than it does now it the gaming world.

Way I see it Nvidia and Ati are in a bad situation if PC gaming is a hurting market. Both companies need to realize this and lower their prices. Also, They release to many high end video cards a year that does not really provide any better performance than video card before it. When both companies release ther single slot dual core video cards that may help out if the cards are affordable.

BYOBI see your point about the graphic card situation, but a graphic card back when ut2004 came out it would last a lot longer than it does now it the gaming world.

Way I see it Nvidia and Ati are in a bad situation if PC gaming is a hurting market. Both companies need to realize this and lower their prices. Also, They release to many high end video cards a year that does not really provide any better performance than video card before it. When both companies release ther single slot dual core video cards that may help out if the cards are affordable.

Nvidia and ATI won't be hurting that bad if the PC game market dies out, mainly because they are the ones creating the graphic technology in the PS3 and the Xbox.

its the games fault. Game devs need to STOP making games like R6 vegas and crysis, and do things PROPERLY.

NO ONE will buy a game if you cant run it at a reasonable FPS. people return it, or just never buy that brand (EG, rainbow 6) again.

when they do a console port, they need to fix performance, AND redo the controls.

STOP BEING LAZY AND PEOPLE WILL BUY FOR PC.

[/huge amount of annoyance]

Musselsits the games fault. Game devs need to STOP making games like R6 vegas and crysis, and do things PROPERLY.

NO ONE will buy a game if you cant run it at a reasonable FPS. people return it, or just never buy that brand (EG, rainbow 6) again.

when they do a console port, they need to fix performance, AND redo the controls.

STOP BEING LAZY AND PEOPLE WILL BUY FOR PC.

[/huge amount of annoyance]

Well the truth is that companies like EA and Ubi-soft are huge companies who front money to developers as a loan, and they expect the developers to churn out new products when EA wants them. They game is thought up around a brain storm table, just some generic story line...After that point, once EA gives the thumbs up, the game development is underway and the developer has to finish it on time. This leads to bad games and or poor story lines.

I think UT3 failure was because the time they deliver the game and the game doens´t bring anything new, less options than the previous version BAD sountrack less constumization options and it realy looks like a console game and bad servers...

but i think they will fix maybe they need some time to fix it...

and about the PC vs Consoles its about the type of games we like if u like shooters then go for PC if u like RPGs like final fantasy, fighting like tekken and soul calibur don´t think go for PS3... i like both pc and console PC for shooters and console for the games above mentioned...

tech is moving faster and will continue to do so. Technology doubles every 1 and a half years, this is expontial in nature. Meaning as the years go on so does the power curve. it looks like this

A curve?:wtf: where are the values, indices, axes and dimensions?

its paint, but as i said its expontial, the begging being the Voodoo 1 and the end being 8800Ultra.


compare the power of Voodoo to 8800Ultra and you will see what i mean.

candle_86its paint, but as i said its expontial, the begging being the Voodoo 1 and the end being 8800Ultra.


compare the power of Voodoo to 8800Ultra and you will see what i mean.

Now I'm confused :confused:

Didn't console technology grow exponentially as well? Beginning from a 2 MHz NES to a CELL powered PS3? You might argue with the pricing but you always had a $200 console at any point in time just as you always had a $200 graphics card. Besides doesn't it make ample sense to upgrade your existing PC with a $199 HD3850 512M than buy a $240 Xbox 360? The HD3850 512M can handle all of today's games reasonably well.

das müffin manneven if it does die, im gunna try to keep it alive, mainly because i hate controllers compared to my keyboard and mouse

I support you with the same idea.:toast:

Console gaming is to Wow as PC Gaming is to every other game. just because more people play consoles ( which you will find is a much younger crowd and marketbase statistically ) does not mean PC gaming is dead or dying but that console gaming is growing. almost every PC Gamer i know also has a 360, some have a PS3. they do not account for the following

- Consoles are cheaper
- Consoles are therefore mroe available to a younger market and to their parents. ( i know when i was around for the Nintendo release, my parents bought me one for Christmas.. if i asked them to buy me a $500 graphics card or $1,000 processor... which would they pick? )
- consoles have limited function. while not a con, they are easier to use and maintain, but also cannot do a fraction of what a PC can.
- Consoles cannot be upgraded, you cannot edit games, you can't run other programs, the list goes on and on.
- consoles get an insanely huge advertising campaign and while home PC's do as well they are not directed toward the gamer user but for a very small fraction.
- Console games can be traded, rented, and returned much more easily than PC Games.. but PC Games are also more available free from the shady types = more profit potential in console version production.
- Consoles are more evenly balanced in hardware equality, PC Gamers goes to who has the most tech in their rig.

this list can continue for a while but you get the point, i have seen more people getting into PC Gaming than consoles lately and use their 360 for when friends are over, or downtime between games or matches or what have you... heck some just use their PS3's as a Blue ray player with benefits... me personally, i think consoles are just another PC accessory to amplify my gaming experience by playing the games i cannot get on PC yet, and something to include friends that want to game when they come over to my place or i can take to theirs...

PC Gamer and Techie for Life, consoles are kids play or downtime recreation at best... kinda like the ugly friend your PC brings to the party just because you need somewhere to crash afterward.. and they are a volunteer DD.

Don't care about consoles...Won't go back unless I'm forced to...I like the PC...the tinkering, the building...the whole ritual that goes along with building your own machine and keeping it running...I started out on consoles...PS1 and went through three of those..went through 2 ps2's and 2 X-boxes...As for PC's, I bought one already made pc(a Gateway) with a 939 socket 4200X2 and built 2 Intel rigs and none of them have died yet..oh, the hdd did fail on the AMD rig, but no biggie...I think PC's are more reliable IF you've put good parts into 'em. Not to mention how hard it would be to play RTS's on console..blech! NOTHING beats the mouse and keyboard!

No way am I going back to a console... If PC gaming dies my gaming life is done.. I haven't played on a console since the SNES.

i own a wii, and my housemate has a Xbox (original) and PS2.

Neither console has anything for it - all anyone ever talks about is the GAMES.

Its the games that make the platform, and NO game ported from another platform is good. you have to change it - not a direct port.

Can someone, anyone, please name a port (pc to console or vice versa) that actually SUCCEEDED and was popular??

Epic hasn't done well since the original Unreal, and Unreal Tournament I like the formula and engine and I know they make alot of money licensing there engine to countless developers, but the gaming industry is like $6-8 billion a year and the consoles consume 75% of that profit, one of my favorite one liners is "you can't even call it a war, because wars end." aslong as Valve and Blizzard are around the PC gaming will live, but realistically how long will it take for an MMO to work on a console? not long I imagine and I doubt ATI or nVidia will complain they will find a way to market off consoles.

- Christine

RavenasI don't know what you call midrange, but 500$ is mid range in my book.

In my opinion, a good mid-range card is 500$. You can get a midranged midrange card for around 300$ bucks, but that's still practically the price of a console.'

Those are limited searches and only provide so many hits, but if you can't understand that than you can't understand graphics card categories.

wow. Well. No. Your just wrong, and I dont really know what else to say... Hiend has always been around 600 and the lowend of hiend has always aimed for 300 (after some time). Midrange is 200ish, and low end is below. The 3870s changed that in favor of us. Slightly slower hiend at a 200 price tag. I dont know what else to tell you. Look at benchmarrks...yeah, thats just...wrong. :wtf:

considering a 3870 x2 is $450.. i dont consider that mid grade... hell i run two 2900 Pro's and for $159 each get amazing results out of them.. though less costly, not low end cards

i have to agree with gsg, the 2900 is a highend card and i paid a little over $200 for mein, it can handle anything i throw at it, except crysis it gets a little mad at me, even teh 8800 which is sub $300 is a highend card, the 3870 is also a great mid-highend card for sub $300, those atm are the highend cards and benchmarks prove it, would you rather spend sub $300 on a gfx card that allows you limitless possibilities with your games, ie mods and what not, tweek the settings, or spend much more than $300 on a machine that offers very limited capabilities

Without me even reading, how many of you are pissed off at his comments? HAHA

WarEagleAUWithout me even reading, how many of you are pissed off at his comments? HAHA

Me or him :o

GSG-9wow. Well. No. Your just wrong, and I dont really know what else to say... Hiend has always been around 600 and the lowend of hiend has always aimed for 300 (after some time). Midrange is 200ish, and low end is below. The 3870s changed that in favor of us. Slightly slower hiend at a 200 price tag. I dont know what else to tell you. Look at benchmarrks...yeah, thats just...wrong. :wtf:

The modern high end (when they were first released) card costs 650-800$, trust me, I've bought one. It's called the 8800 ultra OC edition. That's the highest end as you go gaming video card wise. If you can't play crysis, it's because you're on a midrange card. IF your midrange card is OCed, then this gives you a better chance of playing crysis. ATI SELLS MANY MID RANGE CARDS. That's their niche, right now at least. ATI knew nvidia's 8800 series cards were going to be faster when they first came out, and they tapped into the midrange budget gaming market.

The 3870 is ATI's high end card, in a midrange market. You're completely confusing the entire thing.

RavenasThe modern high end (when they were first released) card costs 650-800$, trust me, I've bought one. It's called the 8800 ultra OC edition. That's the highest end as you go gaming video card wise. If you can't play crysis, it's because you're on a midrange card. IF your midrange card is OCed, then this gives you a better chance of playing crysis. ATI SELLS MANY MID RANGE CARDS. That's their niche, right now at least. ATI knew nvidia's 8800 series cards were going to be faster when they first came out, and they tapped into the midrange budget gaming market.

The 3870 is ATI's high end card, in a midrange market. You're totally confusing the entire thing.

No. not really. you just have your own definition of midrange that noone here, and noone anywhere agrees with.
PERFORMANCE is what deisdes if a card is hiend midrange or lowend. NOT the price. thats the biggest discrepancy. Everyone here besides you would consider a 2900 hiend.
Also the Ultra was not released first, just the GTX (I know you know it im just recaping) and it was that much, some of the Ultras cost as much as 1000, but they got 5fps more. Thats called being an idiot and not buying a product that is cost effective (No offense to anyone, if you have the money...i envy you, but its still not cost effective in the least).