vojci think that deneb without L3 cache will bi faster in super PI and cheaperbecouse L3 is slower than CPU clk

Without a cache it would be bottlenecked by memory speed, which would be much slower. ;)

PaintfaceIll be finally upgrading to quadcore when these 45nm phenoms come out.

The performance is more than good :)

Most important though remember the prices are of the CPUs you compare it to, along with the cost of the mainboard, both which AMD is usually cheaper then intel comparing the same performance.

I think its wrong to compare the best intel has to the best AMD has but neglecting the price difference, but sadly many look at who has the best performing CPU and than go down the list of what CPU they can actually afford.

Im not a die hard fanboy but i do prefer AMD, i had their CPUs since 1994, they made it even possible for me to afford a PC back then, they always had good price/performance even when they wrecked the competition with their athlon 64s, which cant be said of Intel.
Also even if the fastest AMD is half the speed of the best intel, games dont require quadcores or that kind of performance, so its not an issue for me at all either.

Glad to see they are back on track, ill get it along with a new mobo and a 4870 end of the year.

The 9850 Phenom is $205, the Q6600 is $209, both on Newegg. Sorry, but AMD loses the price/performance battle in the area of quads. And that IS relevant to anyone looking to purchase a quad in this price range. Now, if AMD lowers prices, Phenom becomes a much more attractive alternative.

Moving on - As far as the socket longevity argument between AMD and Intel, they are both just as guilty. The practices of the past have nothing to do with what will happen in the future. And for an example of AMD screwing people on a socket change, look no further than 939. Recap/summary = both have screwed customers with socket changes AND that does nothing to prove what will happen in the future.

Going back a few pages - My 45nm Quad does 4Ghz on 1.4v 24/7. Just giving an idea of the voltage differences between the 2 companies on the same process. I know mine doesn't represent any kind of real price/performance value.

Now, before anybody labels me a fanboy, know that I do still have my 6400+ running in my second rig, and that I still build AMD machines for clients when it represents the better value (for the non-OC'ers). It's just that 90% of the time, the Phenom doesn't represent the better value. The exceptions being when there's a special deal going on a Phenom, or the client uses heavily multi-threaded software on a regular basis, but doesn't want to spend the money on a higher end Phenom/Intel quad (Then the lower end Phenoms will do), or they already have a good AM2 board that supports Phenom (Hell, if my AM2 board supported Phenom, I would pick one up as a quick upgrade). All clients interested in OCing automatically get Intel systems tho.

When and if AMD ever takes the performance lead again, I will jump ship right back to them, until then, it's Intel for me.

DaedalusHeliosWithout a cache it would be bottlenecked by memory speed, which would be much slower. ;)

depend on the application i guess, it would be better if AMD increase L2 cahcje size and share it to all 4 cores

Thats a good point there Wile E. Q6600 goes for $180 OEM.

OliverdaOK, let's try to put a C2D CPU into a Socket 775 board which made between 2004 and 2006. It won't work thanks to Intel's "customer friendly" marketing strategy. :rolleyes:

What like trying to put a Phenom or an Orleans in a S939 board?

Tatty_OneWhat like trying to put a Phenom or an Orleans in a S939 board?

i ithink the point was that AMD has generally offered a more stable set of sockets at least as far as upgrades go.

i have to say even 1st gen AM2 boards "support" 45nm phenom but manufacturers wont update the BIOS on them they want you to spend YOUR money on THEIR new boards

vojci think that deneb without L3 cache will bi faster in super PI and cheaperbecouse L3 is slower than CPU clk

thing about that is its still faster than going to the ram 1.8ghz vs 1066mhz hmmm which do you think is faster

well i tkink that L3 just slow down super PI calculation, i think so..........is it true? well i don t know :)

Nehalem relies heavily on its L3 cache, with the cores having tiny L2 caches, yet Bloomfield chips scored immensely well.

vojcwell i tkink that L3 just slow down super PI calculation, i think so..........is it true? well i don t know :)

well something has to speed them up because @2.8ghz my phenom scores better than my 5000BE @3.35ghz same ram same timings hell the ram on the 5000BE was running 100-150mhz faster at the same timings and yet the phenom still beat it

As far as sockets go AMD made a huge mistake with AM2+. They said, "Sure, you can just put it in any AM2 board and it will work". Then people went out and bought them and viola, it didn't work and there were no real bios updates available(with Phenom support) for most boards. Pissed a ton of people off. :laugh:

Intel never said that C2Ds, or Core 2 Quads will work in any LGA775 board. They always said that only certain boards support it so look at the manufacturer's documentation. Thats a better way to do business.

So socket support in recent years, was not so good with AMD.

That's not AMD's fault, BIOS releases are sole responsibility of the board manufacturers. MSI still didn't release a Phenom supportive BIOS for its NForce 590 SLI board, though the chipset very much does support Phenom. Same applies to MSI's AMD 580X boards.

DaedalusHeliosAs far as sockets go AMD made a huge mistake with AM2+. They said, "Sure, you can just put it in any AM2 board and it will work". Then people went out and bought them and viola, it didn't work and there were no real bios updates available(with Phenom support) for most boards. Pissed a ton of people off. :laugh:

Intel never said that C2Ds, or Core 2 Quads will work in any LGA775 board. They always said that only certain boards support it so look at the manufacturer's documentation. Thats a better way to do business.

So socket support in recent years, was not so good with AMD.

As someone already said, it's not that they won't work, it's just the the MB manuf. are assholes. But AMD should stick a foot up their ass so they add support.

And some of it's common sense. Don't buy a shitty board *cough* ECS (as someone mentioned) *cough*

btarunrThat's not AMD's fault, BIOS releases are sole responsibility of the board manufacturers. MSI still didn't release a Phenom supportive BIOS for its NForce 590 SLI board, though the chipset very much does support Phenom. Same applies to MSI's AMD 580X boards.

:laugh: Even motherboard manufacturers don't wanna go out of there way to support AMD. Thats insane.

I have nothing against AMD. I would buy their processors if they were priced more appropriately.

DaedalusHelios:laugh: Even motherboard manufacturers don't wanna go out of there way to support AMD. Thats insane.

Just don't hold AMD responsible for that.

DaedalusHelios:laugh: Even motherboard manufacturers don't wanna go out of there way to support AMD. Thats insane.

I have nothing against AMD. I would buy their processors if they were priced more appropriately.

its not that which do you think makes more money paying for the BIOS to be updated on an older board or selling the new board becuase the old one doesn't support the nww chips

it intels chipset strategy

As far as prices go, I'd take a 9600 BE and O/C to about 3 GHz for 135 bucks. I may do that if these 45s don't come out fast enough.

I also may juice the crap out of it to make the NB clock like I want to lol.

TheGuruStudAs far as prices go, I'd take a 9600 BE and O/C to about 3 GHz for 135 bucks. I may do that if these 45s don't come out fast enough.

I also may juice the crap out of it to make the NB clock like I want to lol.

What kinda clock are you looking for on the Northbridge? You may not need as much juice as you think.

K

KeiWhat kinda clock are you looking for on the Northbridge? You may not need as much juice as you think.

K

As high as it goes before I fry it! :rockout:

Like I was bitching earlier, it's the main perf. limitation of these chips.

Phenom power consumption

breakfromyouback to the Q6600 vs. 9850BE...so they're even, but look at power consumption, and how one is brand new, while the other has been out for over a year...and has already been replaced by a better model--Yorkfield.

Good point on the power consumption of the two chips. I have indeed noticed that AMD has pumped loads of extra voltage into their Phenom lineup (perhaps on purpose?) versus what Intel seems to be doing with theirs.

I don't own one of the Intel quads (though like I said earilier I do like the QX6700 model) but they seem to pump less volts into their processors than AMD is doing at the time of course I imagine this is to play on the energy savings kick that everyone is on about these days.

I've been doing the energy savings things since I can remember so I do lots of testing with Phenoms and find that not a single one actually needs the voltage that they come with from the factory in order to run at stock speed...and sometimes even higher.

I'm running my Phenom 9850BE as we speak at 2.6Ghz (9950BE level) on 1.152v worth of juice 100% stable (I run roughly 10-12hrs worth of stress to test things) and it'll actually boot up at far far less than that voltage.

Doing this drops my power consumption by a HUGE degree down to the same levels that the Intel quads enjoy. My total system power consumption as I type this out, listen to music, have a few monitoring programs open, and all the other various programs associated with normal use is a whopping 151W.

I just ran POV Beta 3.7 to keep things fair and the max consumption rose to 213W at this setting. That's far lower than what the 9950BE is using at it's stock level and of course I could take it back to normal 9850BE speed but I was going after a certain point.

I'm sure that the Intel chips could go lower (not sure how much as they seem to be running low already :laugh:) to lower their consumption as well but I just wanted to show that the Phenoms aren't really as power hungry as they appear. AMD just for some reason pumps huge amounts of voltage through them anyway. Also note that my normal usage was at the same wattage levels that the 9950BE will get when Cool N Quiet is enabled (same with the Intels) and those were done at 1 hr idle time.

Crazy what a processor can do if you take the time to find out...

K

Credit goes to Legit Reviews for the power consumption figures of the other processors. For my readings I used the same parameters and tests that they did to achieve load numbers. I didn't bother taking an idle test however because you see my normal usage is what they get at idle already.

Oh yea the processor temps were at 46C under the 100% load of POV Beta 3.7 with air cooling only. The cooler is in silent with the fan spinning at less than 40cfm on 616rpm out of 2000+. Pretty good I think :D

K

TheGuruStudAs high as it goes before I fry it! :rockout:

Like I was bitching earlier, it's the main perf. limitation of these chips.

Hahahaha, that's a pretty good speed. The max I've taken mine is a bit over 2.5Ghz (aka over what the stock processor speed is actually rated for haha). Very true that the Northbridge is CRUCIAL to the performance of the Phenom, Once that things goes up speed changes ridiculously! I used 1.45v to get that speed but it may run on just a little less and still be 100% stable (I was doing stability testing for that speed and it passed).

K

cdawallits not that which do you think makes more money paying for the BIOS to be updated on an older board or selling the new board becuase the old one doesn't support the nww chips

it intels chipset strategy

Old chipsets support quads and yorkfields. As long as you don't buy super old boards.

DaedalusHeliosOld chipsets support quads and yorkfields. As long as you don't buy super old boards.

915 isn't super old nor is 945 yet on certain 945s can run them because the amnuf DIDNT UPDATE THE BIOS

Title is wrong...
It´s not "DENREB"

it´s "DENEB"

cdawall915 isn't super old nor is 945 yet on certain 945s can run them because the amnuf DIDNT UPDATE THE BIOS

my friend has a 865G board that supports quads and AGP :laugh: