some people get caught up in the whole ati/nvidia thing. to me, if 1 card with 2 gpus and a lower price tag can outperform 1 card with 1 gpu then i know who the clear winner is...ME!

xubidoois a matter of opinion tbh and mine is that its wrong to compare on price ,its a single card with dual gpus on it lol so its hardly a single card technically speaking. which also means a larger PSU is required as your standard 500/600w psu that most average ppl will have most likely wont cut it.

anyway i respect ppls opinions even if i think they are wrong,so im not going to argue about it,just stating wat i think.
and for the record i will not buy a dual card from either camp be it ATI or nvidia or any1 else.

I dont want to start an arguement or anything either, but what I was trying to say, cus you keep coming back to power consumption. What if the 280 and 4870X2 consumed the same amount of power.
e.g. If you have a dual GPU card where each GPU uses 100w, then a single GPU card using 200w. The PSU wont know the difference.

just to be crystal clear...

imho price has nothing to do with it at all

its about the results,the benchmarks,the scores ,whatever you wish to call them and for the results to be comparable the cards in question MUST SURELY be basically the same ie: both dual cards or both single card solutions ,but this is not ,its a dual V's a single.

doesnt matter a jot that 1 may cost $100+ more ,the hardware is different,1 has only 1 gpu the other has 2 ,yet every seems to go on about price ,i fail to see where that comes into it taking all of the above into account.

its about the "RESULTS on COMPARABLE" hardware not the price.

id think the exact same if it was a dual Nvidia card v a single ATI btw ,yes the ATI wins on price but thats not the point of benchmarking is it ?

Hmmm.... no power consumption parts to those reviews. I want to know how it handles the juice babeh!

:D

HardOCPMore power testing going on now but we saw 700w system peaks under full CF load.

Fuggin' 'ell! :twitch:

xubidoojust to be crystal clear...

imho price has nothing to do with it at all

its about the results,the benchmarks,the scores ,whatever you wish to call them and for the results to be comparable the cards in question MUST SURELY be basically the same ie: both dual cards or both single card solutions ,but this is not ,its a dual V's a single.

doesnt matter a jot that 1 may cost $100+ more ,the hardware is different,1 has only 1 gpu the other has 2 ,yet every seems to go on about price ,i fail to see where that comes into it taking all of the above into account.

its about the "RESULTS on COMPARABLE" hardware not the price.

id think the exact same if it was a dual Nvidia card v a single ATI btw ,yes the ATI wins on price but thats not the point of benchmarking is it ?

ATi could have made a massively powerful GPU. But they have gone about it a different way. If you think about it. Nvidia has the GTX260 and GTX 280. They are two different GPU's. ATi in comparison have the 4870 and 4870X2 to compete. But they are using the same GPU, so keeping costs down. Have you seen the comparison between the rv770 and GTX280? its something like 4 times the size, lol!

I appreciate everyone has their own requirements from their hardware, but price plays a massive role, and for me, I couldnt care less if one manufactuer had 300 GPU's on a PCB against one. I go for best price/performance ratio, be it nvidia or ati.

must... get... 4870x2!

Must... stop... drooling!

InnocentCriminalMust... stop... drooling!

lol. me too! Cant wait to get it. Wonder when pre-orders will start? Hope retailers dont inflate the price, because they think they can.

alexp999ATi could have made a massively powerful GPU. But they have gone about it a different way. If you think about it. Nvidia has the GTX260 and GTX 280. They are two different GPU's. ATi in comparison have the 4870 and 4870X2 to compete. But they are using the same GPU, so keeping costs down. Have you seen the comparison between the rv770 and GTX280? its something like 4 times the size, lol!

I appreciate everyone has their own requirements from their hardware, but price plays a massive role, and for me, I couldnt care less if one manufactuer had 300 GPU's on a PCB against one. I go for best price/performance ratio, be it nvidia or ati.

^^^^^ This guy took the words from my mouth.

Seriously guys, why do you even care how performance and quality is attained? Is it some moral obligation? Because if it is you really need to get a dose of reality.

Remember that two RV770's cores is equivalent to one GTX280 in surface area and transistor density. Therefore its pretty much even. Nvidia keeps things in one package, AMD keeps them in two.

Performance and cost? Different story. AMD saw the inefficiencies in a monolithic die and decided to split the packages. Nvidia just went ahead.

So... to us does the dual vs single really matter? No. Not at all. However the price does. Installing two small die packages onto one PCB isn't too hard. However installing one MASSIVE package is. You have to consider stresses etc.

Did we EVER question the use of dual core? No.

In the end the R700 is STILL cheaper to manufacture, and outperforms the GTX280. The R700 is going to be cheaper, upon retail moreover; therefore we are the winners.

This isn't like the 7 series GX2 cards which had driver issues and only worked with some chipsets, this is a high end card that doesnt cost an arm and a leg.


and finally realise that all GPUs are multi cored; think of the stream processors, the components; all are single cores themselves. GTX280 and R700 BOTH have more than two processors. GTX280 puts them all in one package, R700 in two.

Those perf numbers are really otherworldly almost... considering how its cheaper than the GTX280...

I over exaggerated a bit, lol. But you get the idea:



Source

EditoUr right but is still a dual GPU and i think its not fair despite the fact (PRICE) cause in this meter we just can´t discuss ATI all the way but its good to a have a fair challenge...

who cares, it is on single PCB, nvidia use dual PCB they suck :)
anway...the size of the 2x4870cores and 1x 280GTX cores equals, so at the same die size ati is faster (lets call that 65nm vs 55nm)

vojcwho cares, it is on single PCB, nvidia use dual PCB they suck :)
anway...the size of the 2x4870cores and 1x 280GTX cores equals, so at the same die size ati is faster (lets call that 65nm vs 55nm)

obviosuly some ppl care or they wouldnt be posting in this thread :banghead:

Unto each his own I say.

My view is, healthy competition benefits us, the consumer.
While we may debate the technical merits of either solution, people vote with their wallets.

And don't stop the debating guys. It helps us to know our minds.:rockout:

xubidooobviosuly some ppl care or they wouldnt be posting in this thread :banghead:

I think we are just trying to work out what it is the people dont like about dual gpu solutions if they get the same or better job done at the end of the day, cheaper.

well i feel like im doing this :banghead: :laugh:

so i give up ,but if u lot want to convince urselves that its a perfectly fair benchmark then feel free.
altho im going to be mailing evga about my faulty card as i didnt get any extra points in 3d mark cos of the price as most of you seem to :roll:

anyway forgetting all the above ,it is good to see ATI on the up and up again after being behind for so long.and i hope nvidia respond quickly and then ATI to that etc etc ,its all good for us ,the humble consumer :)

alexp999I think we are just trying to work out what it is the people dont like about dual gpu solutions if they get the same or better job done at the end of the day, cheaper.

well no one from nvidiots cry abaut 9800GX2 and DUAL PCB :)

xubidoois a matter of opinion tbh and mine is that its wrong to compare on price ,its a single card with dual gpus on it lol so its hardly a single card technically speaking. which also means a larger PSU is required as your standard 500/600w psu that most average ppl will have most likely wont cut it.

anyway i respect ppls opinions even if i think they are wrong,so im not going to argue about it,just stating wat i think.
and for the record i will not buy a dual card from either camp be it ATI or nvidia or any1 else.

And to average people, it's also wrong NOT to compare on price. That IS the comparison. While power consumption may be a concern, how many people do you know that would try to run a GTX280GX2 (if such a beast existed) on a 500/600W psu? That right there throws your comparable hardware argument out the window. By not using price as a comparison factor, you might as well pit the HD2400 against the GTX280, because by your logic, they're both single gpu cards, so it's a fair comparison.

xubidoowell i feel like im doing this :banghead: :laugh:

so i give up ,but if u lot want to convince urselves that its a perfectly fair benchmark then feel free.
altho im going to be mailing evga about my faulty card as i didnt get any extra points in 3d mark cos of the price as most of you seem to :roll:

anyway forgetting all the above ,it is good to see ATI on the up and up again after being behind for so long.and i hope nvidia respond quickly and then ATI to that etc etc ,its all good for us ,the humble consumer :)

Sorry you feel like that mate but I feel a bit :confused: as to why you feel it is an unfair benchmark.

Like Wile E said. If you dont take into account price, it is like pitting a Bugatti Veyron against a Fiat Panda (now that I would like to see :p )

they wouldnt try to run it on a 500/600 .i didnt say they would ,i said they most likely couldnt run a dual card on such a psu ,buy maybe they could run a single card on such a psu.

rubbish over the price anyway ,as ur benchmarking HARDWARE not prices ,its about the results not the price ,unless suddenly cheaper prices make your score increase,now theres a thought :)

the comparable hardware argument i made is over a dual ati over a single nvidia ,when they should both be either dual or single not 1 of each ,you wouldnt bench a single core cpu v a dual core cpu and proudly announce to the world the dual pwnd it would u? its pretty obvious even to a n00b 2 is better than 1.
as for the 2400 v 280 no of course its not fair ,competely diff generations. it should be..

gtx 260/280 VS hd4850/4870 as they are all the newest gens

and 4870x2 VS 9800gx2 as nvidia are lacking anything faster or newer in dual gpu's atm
(replacing the 9800gx2 when and if nvidia come up with something newer)

and i wouldnt be saying on the 4870x2 VS 9800gx2 that the 9800 wins cos its cheaper ,that doesnt matter a bit ,its the results that count ,so obviously the clear winner of that fight is the ATI.

you all want to mix it up and then stick the price in ,fair enough ,is up to u but i think its totally wrong.

this is my last post on the subject as im bored of repeating myself with the rather obvious.
altho i will say this ,i wonder how many ATI fans would be as fast to say the exact same thing they are saying now about ATI if the positions were reversed and the nvidia card was faster and cheaper?
some of course but i suspect not all.

xubidoothey wouldnt try to run it on a 500/600 .i didnt say they would ,i said they most likely couldnt run a dual card on such a psu ,buy maybe they could run a single card on such a psu.

rubbish over the price anyway ,as ur benchmarking HARDWARE not prices ,its about the results not the price ,unless suddenly cheaper prices make your score increase,now theres a thought :)

the comparable hardware argument i made is over a dual ati over a single nvidia ,when they should both be either dual or single not 1 of each ,you wouldnt bench a single core cpu v a dual core cpu and proudly announce to the world the dual pwnd it would u? its pretty obvious even to a n00b 2 is better than 1.
as for the 2400 v 280 no of course its not fair ,competely diff generations. it should be..

gtx 260/280 VS hd4850/4870 as they are all the newest gens

and 4870x2 VS 9800gx2 as nvidia are lacking anything faster or newer in dual gpu's atm
(replacing the 9800gx2 when and if nvidia come up with something newer)

and i wouldnt be saying on the 4870x2 VS 9800gx2 that the 9800 wins cos its cheaper ,that doesnt matter a bit ,its the results that count ,so obviously the clear winner of that fight is the ATI.

you all want to mix it up and then stick the price in ,fair enough ,is up to u but i think its totally wrong.

this is my last post on the subject as im bored of repeating myself with the rather obvious.
altho i will say this ,i wonder how many ATI fans would be as fast to say the exact same thing they are saying now about ATI if the positions were reversed and the nvidia card was faster and cheaper?
some of course but i suspect not all.

Ok, get you now, lol. You are basically wanting to compare what "GPUs" of each company are capable of.

But a note on the dual vs single core thing. I would proudly announce it, if the prices were the same.

The way I see it there are two ways of doing it. One big GPU or two smaller ones. Nvidia and ATi have just gone about creating their flagship models in different ways.

But from your perspective. Yes, nvidia have built a much more powerful better performing "GPU" as it takes two ATi "GPUs" to compete.

But this comes at a price, which is what the rest of us are saying about. One nvidia GPU costs the same if not more than two ATi GPU's.

I wouldnt care what company it was, whoever gives me the most bang for my buck in my budget is the card I will get.

We are all entitled to our own opinions. SLI & CFx are the rage right now & dual gpu cards just put that notion into a single card. For myself, 2 is always better than one. This thing is just 2 4870s on one PCB - which actually allows it to be faster than 2 4870s in CFx for a lower price than 2 4870s. That's win/win in my book, whether they're comparing it with the GTX280 or 2 of them in SLI.

EditoThe results are good, but ins`t obvious for a dual GPU to kill a single GPU lets wait to see a fair challenge between 4870x2 vs "GTX280 GX2"....

2 gpu + kick ass + cheaper = Buying product

1 gpu + expensive + rip my ass = bad buying product

I'm a power-user, I have the know-how, it hardly matters to me of whether it's made of 2 GPUs or a big spread of Vegemite as long as it gives me better performance on a price-point. Seriously, its consumption of an extra 50-odd watts sets me back by merely $0.50 /month here, all I need to is watch lesser TV or make my toasts slightly lighter.

nvidia have built a much more powerful better performing "GPU" as it takes two ATi GPU's to compete.

Is this not the basic debate in cpu world ,where Intel dropped 2 cores on 1 die while AMD made 2 separate cores ?

I think these X2 cards are great for some guys on Intel uhmm boards that have 2 X8 pcie and can not get a board with 4 slots...also for guys who want CrossFire (please stop the XFire,there is a progam by that name Xfire.com) but do not want to upgrade to a 850 watt to 1200 watt PSU.

MegastyWe are all entitled to our own opinions. SLI & CFx are the rage right now & dual gpu cards just put that notion into a single card. For myself, 2 is always better than one. This thing is just 2 4870s on one PCB - which actually allows it to be faster than 2 4870s in CFx for a lower price than 2 4870s. That's win/win in my book, whether they're comparing it with the GTX280 or 2 of them in SLI.

1,4870x2+$559=We win
2,4870`s +$329+$329=$658=we loose unless they drop down the 4850 to $150 and the 4870 to $200 mark then we all win.

PS
How long in real terms do you think customers are going to pay the green camp nearly $800 for 1 card ?( going by pricing in Canada.