I think people missed that MS did not say "Internet" in the program list. Just Email, Photo, Movie.

For the people hating on IE, if the OS ships with no browser for the 90% of people, how do you expect them to get online to even get a new browser?

Here's my two or three cents on the matter: Their "bloatware" like IE and outlook are very functional and I've used them immensely. Now granted, outlook express is nowhere near as good as the outlook that ships with the office suite, but it works great.

I really think to solve the problem of everyone bitching about different things, EVERYTHING should be an install option. Don't slip in msn messenger or outlook express if I don't want it. Don't force me to install internet explorer if I don't want it, AND, if it's offered as an option in the install of windows, why not offer opera and firefox as well?

It would be nice if the installer put windows on the system with the capability to connect to the web, then the last steps of the install connected to the internet to update a list of available browsers, email clients, im clients, paint clients, media players, and even calculators, and you selected which ones you wanted.

SteevoFor the people hating on IE, if the OS ships with no browser for the 90% of people, how do you expect them to get online to even get a new browser?

I was thinking the same exact thing. Maybe they could go to office depot and buy one, that's not a hassle is it? LOL

Exactly Steevo good point lol. Alot of ppl assume that IE and Outlook/Windows mail are the only browser/email client out there and woudnt have a clue about open source.

Well this effects the regular user more than the enthusiast. I know most people here download different programs to replace the Windows ones, and sometimes even nlite or vlite the Windows programs out completely. This won't be a big problem as long as they don't charge everyone a subscription for using Windows. That I'd have a problem with...

Sorry for the break, I'm a bit distracted.
Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself saying people complained. In my neighborhood (its a homeowners association so we were all pretty tight) we all had Aptiva PC's from a tiny local shop with windows 95 on them, and the only way to get to the internet was to pay a monthly fee to use this crappy dialer/browser combo from AT&T. After that it was WMConnect, but that was no better. When windows started shipping with Internet explorer we were all happy because we didn't have to use the crappy AT&T browser. I didn't even know about Netscape until after the people who told me about it stopped using it. So my experience represents a small portion of the computing community, sure, but our meeting that month was full of rejoicing, believe me. The same thing happened when someone told us about Firefox:).

SteevoFor the people hating on IE, if the OS ships with no browser for the 90% of people, how do you expect them to get online to even get a new browser?

I never said it shouldn't be included, or the others for that matter. I'm just glad they are removing them. I hate IE because it's so pointless integrated into the OS itself and the fact it's a poor browser is just added ammunition to why I dislike it.

SteevoFor the people hating on IE, if the OS ships with no browser for the 90% of people, how do you expect them to get online to even get a new browser?

That sounds clever, but it's the same way that you probably do it when you re-install Windows or Linux -- use another computer to download the app, and then put it on the new computer. Most households have more than one computer today.

Like I've said, though, I don't have anything against people using IE instead of another browser -- for instance, just a Microsoft nag screen that would inform you about "You need to download the Windows Life Suite to browse the Internet" would be more than enough for me. (The actual download method isn't important -- this file can be downloaded to the user's computer without a web browser by the OS directly and installed automatically, for all I care. You don't need a browser to do it.)

It would go a long way towards helping to decouple the idea from people's heads that the Internet is "just that big blue 'E' on my desktop" -- in their heads, they'd be noticing that they had to download something to get on the Internet, which might help them realize that there are more browsers out there than just IE.

They are NOT removing IE
Just Email, Photo, and Movie programs.

80% of the posts people are making in this thread are irrelevant to the OP.

everybody has web based email these days anyway
so does that mean no windows media player, i know their are better individual programs for music and different types of video but it had a pretty good library function

i like it, the cleaner the os is upon install the better. personally I never use any of the defaults in the os. I do email on web, photos via adobe, and dvd's are powerdvd, music is whatever player comes up first, nero's most of the time.

now if they could just take off windows messenger I'd be set

i think this is a move in the right direction for microsoft. stream line their OS by getting rid of all the crap nobody uses anyway. people usually spend money on programs that are better than microsofts anyway. the next step is to build the OS without IE. now that would be phenomenal. i would like to see microsoft build an OS that takes up barely any space but still has the power and functionality of todays vista sp1. comeon microsoft, you can do it!

Like someone said, you can't just take IE off the system or else you couldn't download another browser. Other way is to put a new browser through a pen drive. But it isn't needed to take off IE. They just have to make it a web browser, with no integration with the system so it could be easily removed, if we don't want it there.

If you people hate IE so much, go buy a mac. I love how people complain about things soo much, but don't do anything about it. :) Wussified America FTL!

No mspaint?! WTF?

Or Movie maker?

SimFreak47No mspaint?! WTF?

Or Movie maker?

The only programs confirmed so far, not to be included, are Movie Maker, Windows Mail and Photo Gallery. ;)

MSPaint, Notepad/Wordpad, IE, WMP should all be included. These are not hindering programs (I know many think IE is).

Outlook Express has always been a joke.
I've never used MS movie maker.
I do like Windows Picture and Fax for basic users that don't want to have to download something that is more complex. There are so many users that like the ability to rotate a picture without any work. It has easy slide show, going through pictures, etc. Very simple, very easy (average user in mind it is a good program!).
Make everything uninstallable, don't just remove it if a fraction of a percentage of the users don't want to use it. . .

In all honesty EU can stuff it. It is MS Windows and IF people choose to download then great, IF not then they DON'T have to. /Sigh


Another thought: Without IE how are you going to go online and download your "preferred software" (open office, firefox, opera, sleipnir, paint.net, etc, etc, etc, etc)? MS isn't going to bundle another company’s product without profits for MS. Think Mozilla will pay MS; ROFL!

We are techs not the average user. They need to be able to open the box and use a computer. We open the box and format the computer.

Thank Jesus! :D Finally someone at M$ listened to their customers and decided to offer a less-bloated Windows version (I'm aware of nLite/vLite, but the less crap people are offered the better). It seems as though Windows 7 will be a great O.S. after all...especially when they've announced earlier that better Windows performance was a major goal. :)

Good, less fat the better!

Dark_WebsterLike someone said, you can't just take IE off the system or else you couldn't download another browser. Other way is to put a new browser through a pen drive. But it isn't needed to take off IE. They just have to make it a web browser, with no integration with the system so it could be easily removed, if we don't want it there.

True -- this would probably be the best idea. Ubuntu and MacOS both include browsers -- however, you can uninstall their default browsers any time you want. If MS did the same with IE, then I wouldn't see a problem with it, even if they did include it with Windows.

I believe Googles Complaining along with several other companies has an effect on Microsofts reasonings as well.

Well, even if i don't use a lote of the software included in Vista, i would prefer seeing an "Advanced Custom Install" feature that would give us control of what would be installed.

Good. I never use these programs anyway.

I am amazed by the amount of whining bitches on this board, the most amusing one is one whiney said "no body uses this and that" because he not uses it, what? what do you want you are to speak for others?:laugh:

lol and they wonder why people are buying max :laugh: