They are really vague in describing it. Will it just be an extension of winget? And the fact that apparently even MS own products like Office aren’t getting support right off the bat doesn’t fill one with confidence. In any case, as long as it can be controlled by the user it should be fine.

If Microsoft notice this thread, if you ask me should they do that.
Is no especially BIOS update I have notice quite a number of PCs.
When Windows update push BIOS update, not all users may notice/check Win update.
When they either put the PC standby or never shutdown properly.
The PC end up bricking so system drivers as well as firmware/BIOS update
best to leave to technicians and adminsitrators to do it.
Quite a fair number of cases that user complain after Windows update, the PC
could not start anymore.
So long Microsoft don't disable the OOBE function let IT administrator setup
the Windows properly especially system drivers.

And deleted my office 2019 in the computer, replaced with the useless office 365 'Desktop APP'.
Rollback button is grey.
I have to manually uninstall that crap and manually re-install my office 2019.

Should be a BSOS

blue screen of sad

not NO....

not Heil NO....

but...... NO F*CKIN WAY 'JOSE !

Well, this may be fine for novices or those who choose not to edumacate themselves on how pc's and their softwarez works, but for those of us on the opposite end of the spectrum (like ME), well then, they (M$) can just K.M.F.A. :D

CrackongAnd deleted my office 2019 in the computer, replaced with the useless office 365 'Desktop APP'.
Rollback button is grey.
I have to manually uninstall that crap and manually re-install my office 2019.

Because you must have Office 365. Your old office version is so dangerous and unsafe that your PC just might explode. What you really need is an Office that constantly updates itself and moves things around. Did I mention OneDrive? You must have that too. It's the only way.

mechtechShould be a BSOS

blue screen of sad

Even better, an SOS. Screen of Sadness.

OnasiThey are really vague in describing it. Will it just be an extension of winget? And the fact that apparently even MS own products like Office aren’t getting support right off the bat doesn’t fill one with confidence.

Doesn't Microsoft Office get its updates through its own service anyway (Office Click-to-run Service)? So it doesn't seem like they need to do anything for it that they aren't already doing.

Onasias long as it can be controlled by the user it should be fine.

Big emphasis on this, considering Microsoft's tendency to ignore even Group Policy when it's most convenient to them.

About time. Its particularly irksome in an Enterprise environment the sheer multitude of app delivery formats.

That said, Microsoft needs to enforce packaging standards with this (and the Windows Store). I thought Winget would solve this, but we still have apps packaged from msix's all the way to custom exe's and everything in between with no standard way to control install options.

Wha ?, no AI involved ?.

More like were doing a trail run to see how good the new system is and all be as normal as before the changes. How ever how shits been going it most likely be worse.

I don't think they are designing this with regards to normal consumers, they are clearly business focused on this decision. A lot of companies with overstressed admins will be more than happy to donate the responsibility, and if it breaks "its Microsoft's problem". Those with more critical infrastructure will not be happy at all to be losing control though.

FourstaffI don't think they are designing this with regards to normal consumers, they are clearly business focused on this decision. A lot of companies with overstressed admins will be more than happy to donate the responsibility, and if it breaks "its Microsoft's problem". Those with more critical infrastructure will not be happy at all to be losing control though.

No reason we can't control this with update policies like we do everything else.

CammNo reason we can't control this with update policies like we do everything else.

Shush you don't give them idea's otherwise next thing we'll know they've removed gpedit.msc

I don’t often agree with Microsoft’s decisions, especially those for Windows, but this is welcomed. In enterprise, the number of different update systems to manage is cumbersome, and maintenance windows either overlap or possibly don’t have enough time to complete whatever update payload comes through.

@ microsoft
When auto-updates become as reliable as the tides, we will be more receptive to your "ideas". They are not currently and never have been. You folks regularly release updates that screw up peoples PCs and making recovering them a serious pain in the neck. As has been the norm, these screw ups make you folks look like monkey's effing a football. It leaves us completely unable to trust you.

bobsledbut this is welcomed.

What?!?

bobsledIn enterprise, the number of different update systems to manage is cumbersome, and maintenance windows either overlap or possibly don’t have enough time to complete whatever update payload comes through.

That's just a lack of skill to organize properly. Sometimes that can be a PITN, but it's not something out of reach for most sysadmins, and these new scheme from ms will not solve anything.

lexluthermiester@ microsoft
When auto-updates become as reliable as the tides, we will be more receptive to your "ideas". They are not currently and never have been. You folks regularly release updates that screw up peoples PCs and making recovering them a serious pain in the neck. As has been the norm, these screw ups make you folks look like monkey's effing a football. It leaves us completely unable to trust you.

I think you're missing the point. Updates being serviced by the Windows Update mechanism isn't the problem - it's the update payloads themselves, and I think most would agree that quality control left the building when Satay fired the Windows QA team. On that topic, do you trust any software vendors? I don't.

lexluthermiesterThat's just a lack of skill to organize properly. Sometimes that can be a PITN, but it's not something out of reach for most sysadmins, and these new scheme from ms will not solve anything.

Thanks for the inference. How can you prove your statement of fact that this won't solve anything, when you don't have visibility over every system and scenario in existence?

Regardless, maybe knock it back a step or two and accept that the inevitable incompetence of every software vendor keeps people employed.

bobsledI think you're missing the point.

No, I'm not.

bobsledUpdates being serviced by the Windows Update mechanism isn't the problem

Hold that thought...

bobsledit's the update payloads themselves, and I think most would agree that quality control left the building when Satay fired the Windows QA team.

This. How can we be expected to trust ANY mechanism that confounds and corrupts on a regular and frequent basis?

bobsledOn that topic, do you trust any software vendors?

Yes, many actually. Why? Because there are still many software devs who operate by the idea of proper testing, troubleshooting and debugging BEFORE the release of a piece of software, or update for same. The folks at microsoft are not one of them.

bobsledThanks for the inference.

You're welcome.

bobsledHow can you prove your statement of fact that this won't solve anything, when you don't have visibility over every system and scenario in existence?

Having been a sysadmin in the past, I had a very careful and specific methodology for software and update deployment. When done the right way, it's a smooth and easy process. Therein we find the key point, doing things the right way. Sadly this world is filled with people who do not take the time to do things in a carefully ordered fashion. And here we are..

bobsledRegardless, maybe knock it back a step or two and accept that the inevitable incompetence of every software vendor keeps people employed.

That is pedantic, sheepish, tokenism. No thank you.

The goons at microsoft need to be the ones to take a few steps back, reinstate the Windows QA division and do a COMPETENT job of software & update deployment. When problems with updates become the rare exception rather than the rule, only then can we have enough faith to offer a modicum of trust.

bonehead123not NO....

not Heil NO....

but...... NO F*CKIN WAY 'JOSE !

Well, this may be fine for novices or those who choose not to edumacate themselves on how pc's and their softwarez works, but for those of us on the opposite end of the spectrum (like ME), well then, they (M$) can just K.M.F.A. :D

To be honest, for those of us that are in that position, at the very least we should be dual booting with Linux, with the exception of gaming which I still login to windows for I operate my PC in Linux CachyOS and have done for the past 18 months or so.

While gaming is now a real thing on Linux, I personally haven't tried it yet. I am however aware that while it's now a solid experience it is still not quite there yet, hence the dual boot & the only reason I still entertain windows at all.

I've been using winget and now unigetUI to do software updates.
Makes some sense they are looking to integrate it in to the default windows update.

it is going to break stuff I'm 100% certain of it.
but the amount of computers I've seen that are running outdated unpatched software isn't low either.

Automatic adjustments of energy profiles and timings of ram after a certain period of monitoring wouldn't be bad either on the energy side of things.

this stuff isn't for us, tech enthousiasts/professionals but for the 90% of people that just use their computer to do their thing.

"as much control over what gets installed on your PC as possible"

just run for the hills. What you should do for, your own safety and sanity, is remove all control from MS, they will break everything and destroy your data. Especially if it's an enterprise.

How I wish we could go back to the Windows Vista days. Everything was simple, intuitive, and right to the point.

That feature is copied from Slackware 96 and many other gnu userspace.

Microsoft also has a broken winget tool. Which is very complicated.

the Time i waste per week to manually download software from computerbase.de/downloads for windows only is massive. Average 10 or 20 Updates per week for w11pro 24h2 only

-- I predict more issues now with the windows update tool: the broken windows update on my ~3 months refurbished lenovo laptop with two - legal windows 11 pro keys is insane. there is a legal w11 pro key in uefi. and a refurbisher windows 11 pro license key in the windows installation. On that laptop w11 pro 24h2 pulled several broken gpu drivers and other broken drivers. four different windows updates do not install, but are regularly downloaded and than refuse to install. Than they are downloaded again. Or the installer hangs at 0% for the windows update.

-- The following statement is proof that my NVMe in my refurbished laptop is in working condition without issues. But windows 11 pro 24h2 redownloads several times the same windows update when it can not be installed.: Game binaries from gog.com which i download on that notebook, or software or iso images do not have a single bit corrupted. That 256GB SSD was several times nearly full with software and gog.com games download.

-- Other operating systems can install several software at the same time and do not lock the hole box while installing - for many - many - many - many years. That includes uninstalling of software and that includes upgrading of installed software - all at the same time. Hole software is downloaded and installed without manually downloading. works very well since 2006. Other operating systems do not need massive wait and click things to install softare - there is a defined standard for files where all the files, configuration files and programs belong.

-- edit: broken offline installer - which demands a working internet connection to microsoft.com to install an offline windows update monthly package. Crosstested not only on my desktop but also on my laptop with w11 pro 24h2

w11pro 24h2 on my laptop has issues downloading. in that network are for sure sevearl other computers and the network connection downloads gog.com games or software sometimes up to 25MB/s - usually minimum 5MB/s for several different downloads. Not a network issue - Windows update hangs since weeks for over an hour while i do something else on my laptop. tested with computerbase / gog / some "open source" iso images / windows iso images ... All not correct values shown in vivaldi browser

It's ironic that people dont trust MS to handle app updates. But they already receive antivirus, system files, BIOS or driver altering updates.
App updates compared to this is much safer as only the specific app (and presumably it's dependencies) are updated.

So what's the worst that can happen? And app does not work after the update for whatever reason.
This is much less jarring than the machine refusing to boot because of system or BIOS update or having problems with one it's devices due to a driver update.

I welcome this change, but i fear more the loss of control when an app is pushed trough WU. Can i see the change log? Can i deselect bloat that comes with the app? Can install it silently? I doubt it. Winget (UnigetUI) offers more granularity that i need, but for average users this could be massive compared to manually going to webpages and downloading new versions or relying on built-in updaters in apps.

Since the introduction of Windows 10, Microsoft has seemingly had ambitions to consolidate as much control over what gets installed on your PC as possible.

The last version of Windows that the user had total control over their system, was Windows XP.
That's why people where sticking on that version(plus it was much lighter) and not wanting to go to Windows 7, that today we consider as the best Windows version.

The last version of Windows that the user had an acceptable level of control over their system, was Windows 7. The best Windows version for many.
That's why people where sticking on that version instead of going to Windows 10(that also needs an SSD - 7 can run happily on a HDD).

The last version of Windows that the user had a tolerable level of control over their system, is Windows 10. That's why people insist of not upgrading to Windows 11. Not to mention that Windows 10 is the last version that someone can install in systems that are over 15 years old(but only with the use of an SSD).


Well... the thing is that whatever we say, in the end Microsoft keeps dragging us deeper and deeper into the sewer. We where sticking to XP when Win7 was out, then we where sticking to Win7 when Win10 was out, now we are sticking to Win10 that Win11 is out, in 5 years we will be sticking on Win11, refusing to go to Win12. But the thing is that we are be dragged deeper and deeper into the sh!t the last (almost)20 years.
Hopefully Valve could convince us in a few years to go to SteamOS or something. But will it ever happen? From 1999 people where predicting Linux to beat Windows and in every major Windows flop(Vista, Win8, Win11?) people where predicting that "this is it, MS can't escape this disaster".

They give driver updates that don't work, especially i2c.
Also can't stop these monthly automatic updates.

Windows 10 is very slow OS vs 8.

And still has not fixed non responsive black screen, after 10 mins sleep or screen off.

I think the reduced conflicts premise is misleading at best and downright false at worst. They haven't said anything about dependency tracking, which is a core task of any platform-wide package management process. Their description makes this little more than an over-glorified update notification system and an easier way to set a scheduled task for installers.

That said, and I have to admit, this may not necessary be a bad thing in itself. Having half a dozen update orchestrators on your system does make maintaining it a little bit annoying, and it definitely incurs costs to storage/processing.
I can see browser makers making use of this. Mozilla does implement a Windows service for this and iirc so does Chrome. But I don't see vendors monopolising professional software niches (*cough*Autodesk*cough*) reducing the bloat they shove down their choiceless "customers'" throats.

FourstaffI don't think they are designing this with regards to normal consumers, they are clearly business focused on this decision. A lot of companies with overstressed admins will be more than happy to donate the responsibility, and if it breaks "its Microsoft's problem". Those with more critical infrastructure will not be happy at all to be losing control though.

I agree that it most likely will be used as a CYA tool, but I don't think it's designed for enterprise. If the latter was the case, they would have integrated it with configmgr or intune or whatever.
Nah, this sounds like it's going to be a core Windows functionality. Gotta make use of those billions of beta testers out there..