Thursday, May 14th 2009

AMD Comments on EC Ruling that Intel Violated EU Law, Harmed Consumers

The European Commission today found Intel guilty of abusing its dominant position in the global x86 microprocessor market, saying that "Intel has harmed millions of European consumers by deliberately acting to keep competitors out of the market for computer chips for many years. Such a serious and sustained violation of the EU's antitrust rules cannot be tolerated." The Commission also stated that "there is evidence that Intel had sought to conceal the conditions associated with its payments." The EC decision requires Intel to change its business practices immediately and fines Intel a record EUR 1.06 billion (US $1.45 billion).

"Today's ruling is an important step toward establishing a truly competitive market," said Dirk Meyer, AMD president and CEO. "AMD has consistently been a technology innovation leader and we are looking forward to the move from a world in which Intel ruled, to one which is ruled by customers."

"After an exhaustive investigation, the EU came to one conclusion - Intel broke the law and consumers were hurt," said Tom McCoy, AMD executive vice president for legal affairs. "With this ruling, the industry will benefit from an end to Intel's monopoly-inflated pricing and European consumers will enjoy greater choice, value and innovation."

The EC decision stated specifically that:
  • "Intel gave wholly or partially hidden rebates to computer manufacturers on condition that they bought all, or almost all, their x86 CPUs from Intel".
  • "Intel made payments to major retailer Media Saturn Holding from October 2002 to December 2007 on condition that it exclusively sold Intel-based PCs in all countries in which Media Saturn Holding is active."
  • Intel "interfered directly in the relations between computer manufacturers and AMD. Intel awarded computer manufacturers payments - unrelated to any particular purchases from Intel - on condition that these computer manufacturers postponed or cancelled the launch of specific AMD-based products."
Intel has so far failed to convince any antitrust enforcement agency that its business practices are lawful and pro-consumer.

In 2008, the Korea Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) issued a 26 billion won fine (approximately $25.4 million USD) saying that Intel's abuse of its dominant position included coercing and paying customers millions of dollars on the condition that they use only Intel chips, delay launches of AMD products, and/or not develop any new products with AMD chips. The KFTC also found that, "South Korean consumers had to buy PCs at higher prices as domestic PC makers were forced to buy Intel's pricier CPU." In addition to a fine, the KFTC ordered Intel to stop the practice of offering payments to PC makers conditioned upon them not doing business with AMD. Intel is in the process of appealing the ruling.

In 2005, the Japan Fair Trade Commission (JFTC) ruled that Intel had violated the country's anti-monopoly laws by illegally forcing full or partial exclusivity with five Japanese PC makers. Intel did not appeal the ruling.

In the United States, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and New York Attorney General's office are investigating Intel for abuse of its monopoly position. In 2005, AMD filed private litigation in the US District Court of Delaware, which is scheduled for trial in spring 2010.
Source: AMD
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104 Comments on AMD Comments on EC Ruling that Intel Violated EU Law, Harmed Consumers

#76
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
snakeoilyou are really like wilee coyote, you dont learn from your errors
Dude Ask Chickin Patty!!! I ran an HD Encode Against his I7 @4GHz against my 940 3.7ish GHz clock.... he even said he dosnt know why the AMD got better marks in test #1 than the I7.... like i said.... This is real world.... not a test on some other site that just goes for whatever they go for cpu to cpu....
Posted on Reply
#77
Wile E
Power User
fullinfusionDude Ask Chickin Patty!!! I ran an HD Encode Against his I7 @4GHz against my 940 3.7ish GHz clock.... he even said he dosnt know why the AMD got better marks in test #1 than the I7.... like i said.... This is real world.... not a test on some other site that just goes for whatever they go for cpu to cpu....
Make a thread then.
Posted on Reply
#78
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
Wile EI haven't made any errors in this thread yet.
LOL and The Terminator Talks.... lol Wile.... its something John Henry would say!!!!
Posted on Reply
#79
mlee49
Dude this is a great idea, a true I7 VS PII throw down. I'll put up my i7 at 4.0GHz and put up or shut up.
Posted on Reply
#80
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
Wile EMake a thread then.
let me look for the thread than....
Posted on Reply
#81
Wile E
Power User
mlee49Dude this is a great idea, a true I7 VS PII throw down. I'll put up my i7 at 4.0GHz and put up or shut up.
That's what I want to see. A bench, with a common starting clip, program and settings must be displayed, as well as cpu-z and the results.
Posted on Reply
#82
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
dude i just looked in my Subscribed Threads and cant find it.... You remember the thread where the I7 ran against the PI? you were in it!
Posted on Reply
#83
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
It was an HD encode with a Chinese woman in it... an Action flik
Posted on Reply
#84
Wile E
Power User
fullinfusiondude i just looked in my Subscribed Threads and cant find it.... You remember the thread where the I7 ran against the PI? you were in it!
I just don't remember that, but I am getting old. lol.

Start a new thread. Make it like a bench thread. It will attract all the nutballs. lol.
Posted on Reply
#85
Melvis
Intel :shadedshu tsk tsk looks like they will never learn......Maybe this will wake them up a bit?

Does this mean that now AMD can sue them for damages or something? Does this open up something for AMD to get some money back that they lost over the yrs because of this?
Posted on Reply
#86
Assassin48
Wile EI just don't remember that, but I am getting old. lol.

Start a new thread. Make it like a bench thread. It will attract all the nutballs. lol.
ill join up

You guys want me to make a thread?

what should the name be?

I7 vs PII
Posted on Reply
#87
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
Assassin48ill join up

You guys want me to make a thread?

what should the name be?

I7 vs PII
Yeah you start it .... Im ... but Have a sweet PII chip.... just send me a link
Posted on Reply
#89
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
mtosevAMD hasnt produced a good product since the bought out ATI.
Welcome to June 2008.
snakeoilthe problem is that you don't understand the old architecture you are using, core 2 uses front bus, which has always being a botleneck thats why when the system is heavily taxed your sistem is not as responsive as an amd system with hypertrasport.
an amd system is smoother because is more advanced. and that's why intel copied the amd architecture.
It doesn't matter. His "old technology/copied licensed technology" setup makes him do things faster/better than what an AMD setup would offer. Look at the ends, not means.
Posted on Reply
#90
Snipermonkey2
Wile ENever had a single latency issue while recording or mixing for albums on an Intel quad core. No pops, no anomalies whatsoever. I'd look at supporting hardware before looking at the cpu.

I'd also like to see where AMD renders faster than Intel. Not saying it isn't true, but I haven't seen it.
Hey sorry to bring up a old post now Wile E but when you run $500 audio interface where sound latency is 1-2ms you will hear pops and that program I linked you to will show the problem of latency. Since intels just couldn't talk between the cores fast enough for the audio interface it would lag out. Its a common problem in the professional audio field.
Posted on Reply
#91
Wile E
Power User
Snipermonkey2Hey sorry to bring up a old post now Wile E but when you run $500 audio interfaces where sound latency is 1-2ms you will hear pops and that program I linked you to will show the problem of latency. Since intels just couldn't talk between the cores fast enough for the audio interface it would lag out. Its a common problem in professional audio field.
We did. It was a firepod for capture, and I can't, for the life of me, remember the external mixer we used, all done in Pro Tools, using mostly Diamond Audio plug-ins. This was all on a Q6600 based system (when they first released). Not a single latency issue, ever. No pops, no dropout, no nothing.

I still have to say it's the hardware choices, not the cpu.
Posted on Reply
#92
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
Snipermonkey2Hey sorry to bring up a old post now Wile E but when you run $500 audio interface where sound latency is 1-2ms you will hear pops and that program I linked you to will show the problem of latency. Since intels just couldn't talk between the cores fast enough for the audio interface it would lag out. Its a common problem in the professional audio field.
That's partly true. A certain program (SANDRA?) tests inter-core latency and bandwidth, where Core 2 Quad still trumps Phenom.
Posted on Reply
#93
Snipermonkey2
Wile EWe did. It was a firepod for capture, and I can't, for the life of me, remember the external mixer we used, all done in Pro Tools, using mostly Diamond Audio plug-ins. This was all on a Q6600 based system (when they first released). Not a single latency issue, ever. No pops, no dropout, no nothing.

I still have to say it's the hardware choices, not the cpu.
Well then thats amazing. I don't know if you know the company Native Instruments, but anyways my brother works for them and a bunch of his friends at work have that latency issue on all types of interfaces. Now it might be that its lagging in the PCI interface cause that unit you posted is a firewire hookup. I would have to do some more fishing to find out if its the PCI to CPU talk time with Intels thats killing it.
Posted on Reply
#94
Wile E
Power User
Snipermonkey2Well then thats amazing. I don't know if you know the company Native Instruments, but anyways my brother works for them and a bunch of his friends at work have that latency issue on all types of interfaces. Now it might be that its lagging in the PCI interface cause that unit you posted is a firewire hookup. I would have to do some more fishing to find out if its the PCI to CPU talk time with Intels thats killing it.
I've also use the Firepod on a 2 x dual core MacPro (1st gen), with no latency issues.

But I think you could be right, it could be related to the PCI bus, we did have issues with an M-Audio card that we tried first, but it was an older model, and thought that maybe it's age was the problem. Shitty drivers or something. And, afaik, the firewire on most modern boards run thru PCIe, don't they?
Posted on Reply
#95
Snipermonkey2
Wile EI've also use the Firepod on a 2 x dual core MacPro (1st gen), with no latency issues.

But I think you could be right, it could be related to the PCI bus, we did have issues with an M-Audio card that we tried first, but it was an older model, and thought that maybe it's age was the problem. Shitty drivers or something. And, afaik, the firewire on most modern boards run thru PCIe, don't they?
Im not sure if they run though PCIe but if they do that would explain why its faster. Also M-Audio blows in general.
Posted on Reply
#96
Wile E
Power User
Snipermonkey2Im not sure if they run though PCIe but if they do that would explain why its faster. Also M-Audio blows in general.
lol. Agreed. We just happened to have it laying around. I think it was one of the very first 24bit models, but it was junk, so I don't remember.
Posted on Reply
#97
Snipermonkey2
Wile Elol. Agreed. We just happened to have it laying around. I think it was one of the very first 24bit models, but it was junk, so I don't remember.
Yeah M-audio stuff is good for umm wasting your money on and or giving some one a gift that pretty much sums up the fact you hate them. Now for my interface I use a NI Kore unit and have never had issues with latency and I run it about 4-5ms live which is pretty good.
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#98
Hayder_Master
ohh, now it is scandal and shame on INTEL they don't really need this for more sells , time AMD to move forward
Posted on Reply
#99
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
lismTry a 8 or 12 core AMD or Intel server, where AMD just performs better due the scaling-possibilitys. The older Opteron would always perform better then a equalevent Intel-setup. Why? Because of the HT. It offers way more bandwith then Intel has with their Quad-pumped FSB.

In their latest CPU, Intel uses mostly the same technology. AMD is being more innovative. And AMD should also have a chance in CPU-world. Not just 90% dominated by Intel only. AMD was the one that kicked their asses and quit netburst-technology.
i have tried an old 16 core AMD server vs a 8 core i7 server and the intel server still ran better it has QPI and HT makes up for the core disadvantage.


oh and hypertransport isn't exactly new either its from 2001
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#100
Shadin
Am I the only one that thinks Hector was AMD's ruin? He came into the company while it was making plenty of money during the A64 days (despite Intel's illegal OEM dealings), and then sat there and collected a paycheck. Core 2 came out and AMD had nothing, nada, to compete. The transition from 939 to AM2 was pathetic. This was the man who ruined Motorola's CPU business, and then they put him in charge of AMD.

Like I've said in other threads, Intel engaged in illegal business practices to prevent OEM manufacturers from offering AMD based solutions, and therefore they deserve the fine. However, AMD also deserves to be on the bottom right now for making a poor choice in leadership that resulted in a serious lag in R&D that they still haven't managed to overcome. Netburst/P4 was crap and AMD was superior, there's no denying. But while A64's were flying off the shelf from the enthusiast market, AMD sat around feeling good about itself while Intel was developing Core 2.
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