Why everyone say Zen 5 is bad ?

[thesmokingman]

Lotta Holiday Inn experts 'round here lol.

 

[Aken Bosch]

Ok, I don't usually comment on hot topics, here's my view (as an Intel runner no less at the moment).

Did the launch suck (from a marketing perspective)? Yes.

Is the product bad? Not at all, both productive AND gaming (yes I know I'll trigger some folks).

Is the price reasonable? Hell no.

That's all.

P.S. The reason I'm on Intel right now is that AMD had absolutely ridiculous prices at that moment.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

I'm not convinced either. At the very least, we need to see a functional(not theoretical) proof of concept.

A Video Interview with Mike Clark, Chief Architect of Zen at AMD

Today’s “article” is a little bit different to what you readers are used to.

chipsandcheese.com

This is the transcript for the chips and cheese interview.

Mike Clark. suggest that under certain events every thing in the whole front-end can be used by a single thread inside of the zen 5 core. Expcet he never says how or, what triggers it?

In chips in cheese test on zen 5 it never does trigger this ever with a single thread runnng throught the core which is causing low single thread gains. It doesn't even trigger when SMT is dsiabled when it has no reason not to use it

EIther, it's a design limitation, hardware bug, patch bug, or micro-code bug?

 

[Aken Bosch]

A Video Interview with Mike Clark, Chief Architect of Zen at AMD

Today’s “article” is a little bit different to what you readers are used to.

chipsandcheese.com

This is the transcript for the chips and cheese interview.

Mike Clark. suggest that under certain events every thing in the whole front-end can be used by a single thread inside of the zen 5 core. Expcet he never says how or, what triggers it?

In chips in cheese test on zen 5 it never does trigger this ever with a single thread runnng throught the core which is causing low single thread gains. It doesn't even trigger when SMT is dsiabled when it has no reason not to use it

EIther, it's a design limitation, hardware bug, patch bug, or micro-code bug?

Neither. It's a design based on server cores, that's all. And I can't blame them for that, seriously.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Neither. It's a design based on server cores, that's all. And I can't blame them for that, seriously.

No it isn't. You obviously didn't read the transcript if you think that

 

[lexluthermiester]

A Video Interview with Mike Clark, Chief Architect of Zen at AMD

Today’s “article” is a little bit different to what you readers are used to.

chipsandcheese.com

This is the transcript for the chips and cheese interview.

Mike Clark. suggest that under certain events every thing in the whole front-end can be used by a single thread inside of the zen 5 core. Expcet he never says how or, what triggers it?

In chips in cheese test on zen 5 it never does trigger this ever with a single thread runnng throught the core which is causing low single thread gains. It doesn't even trigger when SMT is dsiabled when it has no reason not to use it

EIther, it's a design limitation, hardware bug, patch bug, or micro-code bug?

Yeah, that's theory, not proof of concept.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Yeah, that's theory, not proof of concept.

What's theory?
I gave you the desgin engineer interview explaning how it supposivly works, vs hows it actually working in reality.

 

[lexluthermiester]

What's theory?
I gave you the desgin engineer interview explaning how it supposivly works, vs hows it actually working in reality.

That's an explaination, IE, a theory. It's not proof, IE, working evidence.

 

[SL2]

Congrats to all Zen4 and Zen5 Gamers! I guess Zen3 as well. The update is supposed to come to 23H2 later.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

AMD did not know that Windows are significantly hindering their CPUs? So much performance left on the table for such a long time? I do not get it.

 

[phanbuey]

AMD did not know that Windows are significantly hindering their CPUs? So much performance left on the table for such a long time? I do not get it.

Windows is so bloated that i'm betting every CPU is seeing a bump with the update -- they probably found a scheduler incompatibiliity on ryzen systems ot they patched in a detect for AMD and shut off one of the 12400591759 nanny threads running in the background that was throwing off the prefetcher etc. Cyberpunk did something similar with their game where SMT on AMD was busted.

Unfortunately, for AMD this does not change the Zen5 value proposition vs the 7700. 9800X3D will be a beast though.

Everyone makes fun of the Fine Wine argument - but it's kind of classic AMD at this point.

Windows still has so much fat on it.

 

[SchumannFrequency]

The Ryzen 5 5600X and the Ryzen 5 7600 were two CPUs that sold well on amazon.com
If you (now) compare the Ryzen 5 9600X with the Intel 12700KF, the Intel 12700KF is a good buy even though the CPU has been released almost three years ago.
The amount that the Ryzen 5 9600X is faster in single-core performance percentage-wise is similar to the difference in multi-core in favour of the Intel 12700KF

The Intel 12700KF is also significantly more economical at idle.
In my country, the Ryzen 5 9600X is 85 EUR more expensive than the Intel 12700KF, which does not make it an interesting purchase at the moment.

People have also gradually reached the limits of silicon, so in a few years you will probably no longer see big jumps between CPU generations.
It was known 50 years ago that light computers would ultimately be vastly superior to silicon.
But in all those years there has not been a single PhD student who had the capabilities to develop a fast light computer that was commercially interesting.

Light-powered computer chip can train AI much faster than components powered by electricity

Light-powered computer chip can train AI much faster than components powered by electricity

New chip design uses photons rather than electrons to perform calculations, and scientists hope to integrate the technology into future graphics cards to train AI.

www.livescience.com

Whether light computers will be the successors is not yet certain, but silicon will probably be replaced in the next 30 years.

 

[Zazigalka]

Congrats to all Zen4 and Zen5 Gamers! I guess Zen3 as well. The update is supposed to come to 23H2 later.

View attachment 360689View attachment 360688

they should have tested zen3, in a couple of titles at least. but this is nice, and only confirms my decision to go with amd next time I upgrade.

 

[SchumannFrequency]

Windows 7 was the only windows that worked reliably on most hardware.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Unfortunately, for AMD this does not change the Zen5 value proposition vs the 7700. 9800X3D will be a beast though.

Everyone makes fun of the Fine Wine argument - but it's kind of classic AMD at this point.

When 9700X compared to 7700X brings only small improvement, why 9800X3D should be much better than 7800X3D?

I am not sure that the "normal wine maturation process" includes some oversights / fails in optimising AMD products and cooperating with MS to implement some optimisations in the OS so that the CPUs work as well as they can?

 

[Event Horizon]

Congrats to all Zen4 and Zen5 Gamers! I guess Zen3 as well. The update is supposed to come to 23H2 later.

View attachment 360689View attachment 360688

That's bonkers. I guess they weren't lying about that whole reviews not matching internal testing thing.

 

[SL2]

That's bonkers. I guess they weren't lying about that whole reviews not matching internal testing thing.

I never agreed with HUB's interpretation of the AMD article, basically calling them condescending.

Also, the very reason for 90% of my posts in this thread is because of AMD exaggerating CPU game uplift in a way I haven't seen in many years. (NO, I still don't count 5000XT)

All I got was clueless platiude replies like "brüh, people expects double the performance every time", or "bräh, they're always exaggerating", "brÿh, if you think big business is your friend, let me tell you how the world works...". Those replies helped absolutely no one, but I bet they got some likes. You know, kicking in open doors like it was 24H2.

This is only one review tho, but if TPU would show a 6% bump I'd still be happy with that.

AMD did not know that Windows are significantly hindering their CPUs? So much performance left on the table for such a long time? I do not get it.

SinkClose is 18 years old! They missed that one too..

"Sinkclose" Vulnerability Affects Every AMD CPU Dating Back to 2006

A critical security flaw known as "Sinkclose" (CVE-2023-31315) has been identified in all AMD processors dating back to 2006, potentially affecting hundreds of millions of devices worldwide. This vulnerability allows malicious actors to exploit the chip architecture, leading to unauthorized...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[chrcoluk]

This is pretty big, awesome news for AMD owners, but I cant help but feel it also shows that the software side of the product is lagging behind the hardware side, this optimisation should have been in place when Zen 3 was released, as it means in all that time, there has been missing performance, also looking forward to the Intel results, and I am curious on X3D, my prediction on X3D is the gains will be smaller due to that the larger cache is a band aid for bad code branching. But maybe I am wrong hence why I want to see it also tested.

Windows 11 finally has a big reason for people to upgrade as well.

 

[freeagent]

Has anyone exploited power limits in conjunction with Curve Optimizer and Curve Shaper ye?

Stock is pretty boring. Anyone who plays with Ryzen knows that is how you wake them up..

Don't make me buy one

 

[SL2]

, also looking forward to the Intel results,

HUB didn't find any difference in the few games they tested, except in one which had a huge uplift.

Windows 11 finally has a big reason for people to upgrade as well.

I'm not sure it won't come to W10, given that it still recieves updates, and it supports Zen3/4.

Has anyone exploited power limits in conjunction with Curve Optimizer and Curve Shaper ye?

Skatterbencher had interesting results, not many games tho.

 

[chrcoluk]

HUB didn't find any difference in the few games they tested, except in one which had a huge uplift.

I'm not sure it won't come to W10, given that it still recieves updates, and it supports Zen3/4.

Skatterbencher had interesting results, no gaming tho.

They are doing a full 40 game test on Intel which they will release in a week.

 

[Carillon]

This is pretty big, awesome news for AMD owners, but I cant help but feel it also shows that the software side of the product is lagging behind the hardware side, this optimisation should have been in place when Zen 3 was released, as it means in all that time, there has been missing performance, also looking forward to the Intel results, and I am curious on X3D, my prediction on X3D is the gains will be smaller due to that the larger cache is a band aid for bad code branching. But maybe I am wrong hence why I want to see it also tested.

Windows 11 finally has a big reason for people to upgrade as well.

Linux patches are sent before products launches, I believe AMD would send patches to microsoft too. They for sure cannot enforce microsoft to implement them.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Windows 11 finally has a big reason for people to upgrade as well.

I dislike being pessimistic but on the other side of the coin, depending on how turned off users are to Windows 11, it could hurt AMD sales. It's unlikely MS will want to backport these fixes to Windows 10 but it would be nice if they did.

 

[SL2]

It's unlikely MS will want to backport these fixes to Windows 10 but it would be nice if they did.

Why?

 

[A Computer Guy]

Why?

I thought they were ending support soon - October 2025.
Also https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/release-information

The final version of Windows 10 is version 22H2, which will reach end of servicing on October 14, 2025.