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Next Gen GPU's will be even more expensive

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I just gave you my legitimate reasons.
Sorry, but claiming that it will warm up the case more is not a legitimate reason, since the reality is the exact opposite, it will use less power for the same performance compared to probably any other card in the market. Not replying any further on this.

They are all chips out of the same wafers and gaming gpus are leftover chips enterprise wont even look at. You tell me :D
Well yeah but I'd assume they are selling with way bigger margins to workstations AI etc.
 
I don't think PC gaming is unaffordable. One just needs to shop with their brain and not with their ass. You need to establish your needs and your budget and plan accordingly. Sure, the days of putting the most expensive gear into your basket and clicking pay without a second thought have gone, but that doesn't mean you can't build a decent gaming PC on a budget as long as you're not targeting 4K 120+ FPS.
I agree, sure you could stick to a decent budget, if you're fine with 1080P low/medium, what I mean is the xx80 tier used to be reasonable to fit into a build when it was $600, now the xx80 tier is 60% more. I think spending $1000 or more for a GPU is silly when a whole gaming PC would fit in that budget.
No, I don't want one. It's big (I prefer micro-ATX or even ITX cases), too power-hungry and just obnoxious. The same way I don't want a Ferrari, either. Not even for free (unless I can sell it straight away).

Some people (rich people) find it hard to understand, but not everybody craves the most expensive things. Some of us are happy with the small things in life.
Agreed, I wouldn't want a 4090, I don't want the massive case required to fit a 4090 in, or the new power connector.
I'm good with mid range stuff, sadly it has high end prices, though I guess the good thing is a GPU can last much longer since most people aren't paying up for what Nvidia and AMD are asking.
That's just technological progress. Every generation has more features than the last. No need to praise Nvidia/AMD for it, and definitely not a reason to pay more.
Not according to Nvidia anyway, if you want the features and actually want to be able to use them you have to pay up for the flagship.
Its cute that you still say 'the node' is cause for inflated prices - thats bullshit when you knowsaid companies have 50-60% profit margins.

The reality is that demand never ceases. What happened with dGPU is not that they are oh so costly all of a sudden. EVERY SHRINK is only ever done if there is economical sense to it, thats why 28/22nm lasted so long... And if you look at the margins, well... there is a shitload of wiggle room we are just ponying up no questions asked. And then we parrot the nonsense life in foundry land is hard? Lmao
It isn't just the node, Nvidia has cut down the die for everything below the xx90 while increasing prices, yeah they could reduce their margins but have no reason to after everyone was willing to pay 2X over MSRP during the mining craze.
 
AMD 'dominated' nothing at all. They never had the mindshare, did not lead on featureset ever, and the price argument was also not ever compelling enough. AMD had no answers against the GTX 970 or 980Ti. Those answers came FAR too late and they didnt cover the whole stack either. They had no answers for ANYTHING in Pascal or Turing. Availability of Nvidia gpus was almost always better and when AMD finally did catch up again, they neutered volume production on RDNA2. Then they lost all monentum with RDNA3.

I mean lol. What do we expect here. Its a miracle theyre still here.
Dude Nvidia's Fermi was garbage, they had those turds for 2 generations and AMD handed them an ass whooping. The 400 and 500 series were utter turds, the only decent gpu was the 460ti, which was nvidias only saving grace. It also came with 768mb if i remember correctly, not the measely 256 or 512mb at the time.

AMD offered faster gpu's, better value gpu's, less power consuming gpu's, more features gpu's, more advanced DX gpu's, etc... What the hell are you talking about. In fact even Nvidia's 600 and 700 were utter turds for the most part. Barely 20% improvement over 2 generations of gpu's. The only improvement was from the 700 series to the 900 series, which is the only series you seem to remember conveniently.

But even then their 950, 960, 980 sucked ass, they were all garbage with the only two good gpu's being the 970 and the 980ti and the 970 was a scam in itself!

The only great generation from bottom to top was Pascal, their 1000 series, but AMD's mid tier strategy paid off with the 480 and 580 providing amazing value, GTX 980 performance with 8gb vram at $280.

Nvidia's 2000 series were turds once again and AMD's RX 5000 series crushed them. For $400 the 5700XT would outperform the 2070ti in most cases, it was embarrassing how BAD and GARBAGE Nvidia cards were.
 
They are all chips and gaming gpus are leftover chips enterprise wont even look at. You tell me :D

Most of it has to do with their professional cards though right now they are selling at whatever Nvidia charges....

I still think their gaming gpus are in the 40-60% range though likely towards the top of that range.

I mean amds margins are 50%... Nvidias being only 20% higher given their stranglehold on the AI market is more surprising to me....
 
Ok I clicked on the link, and the situation isn't as dire. EG. in 2016-2017 (Pascal) their margins were around 60%. End of 2022 (ADA) there were below 60%. So the price increases between pascal and ada (prices have actually doubled, lol) don't seem to align with the profit margins going up.
 
Well yeah but I'd assume they are selling with way bigger margins to workstations AI etc.
They might, but it still isnt relevant: they cant sell half broken dies to just anyone. In the end they produce X chips and get Y money, where as many products are created as required to position those chips. In the end there is also one profit margin for one company. Almost every business has varying margins throughout its products.
 
Sorry, but claiming that it will warm up the case more is not a legitimate reason, since the reality is the exact opposite, it will use less power for the same performance compared to probably any other card in the market. Not replying any further on this.
Sure, with lots of software control, which as I said, is not an option for me. Or do you think MSi will make a Linux-compatible Afterburner just for me if I ask them nicely? Even if they did, I do not want software limits on my super expensive GPU. That's not a reason to have it in the first place. With lots of limits imposed, you might as well have got a 4080 instead.

Then how about its size? I have 3 expansion slots available in my rig (AMD likes having the top m.2 in the first slot). Every 4090 is at least 3 slots wide. How would it breathe? And no, I'm not getting a bigger case just to fit a bigger GPU. I like my PC the way it is.
 
Ok I clicked on the link, and the situation isn't as dire. EG. in 2016-2017 (Pascal) their margins were around 60%. End of 2022 (ADA) there were below 60%. So the price increases between pascal and ada (prices have actually doubled, lol) don't seem to align with the profit margins going up.
End 2016-17 was mining craze with heavily inflated pricing AND Nvidia introduced the Founders Editions with a 50 dollar markup.
 
End 2016-17 was mining craze with heavily inflated pricing AND Nvidia introduced the Founders Editions with a 50 dollar markup.
The mining craze was end of 2017 and 2018, but their margins were in the high 50s (close to 60%) from way before that. I don't see any rapid change (besides 2024). Im not arguing here, I as too curious to know. It's without a doubt that their profit margins went way up between 2010 and 2015, but after that it seems like they flatlined a bit.
 
Dude Nvidia's Fermi was garbage, they had those turds for 2 generations and AMD handed them an ass whooping. The 400 and 500 series were utter turds, the only decent gpu was the 460ti, which was nvidias only saving grace. It also came with 768mb if i remember correctly, not the measely 256 or 512mb at the time.

AMD offered faster gpu's, better value gpu's, less power consuming gpu's, more features gpu's, more advanced DX gpu's, etc... What the hell are you talking about. In fact even Nvidia's 600 and 700 were utter turds for the most part. Barely 20% improvement over 2 generations of gpu's. The only improvement was from the 700 series to the 900 series, which is the only series you seem to remember conveniently.

But even then their 950, 960, 980 sucked ass, they were all garbage with the only two good gpu's being the 970 and the 980ti and the 970 was a scam in itself!

The only great generation from bottom to top was Pascal, their 1000 series, but AMD's mid tier strategy paid off with the 480 and 580 providing amazing value, GTX 980 performance with 8gb vram at $280.

Nvidia's 2000 series were turds once again and AMD's RX 5000 series crushed them. For $400 the 5700XT would outperform the 2070ti in most cases, it was embarrassing how BAD and GARBAGE Nvidia cards were.
Fermi was 15 years ago. You can believe what you want, it doesnt change facts and the reason AMD is where it is, is not Nvidias fault.
 
Sure, with lots of software control, which as I said, is not an option for me. Or do you think MSi will make a Linux-compatible Afterburner just for me if I ask them nicely? Even if they did, I do not want software limits on my super expensive GPU. That's not a reason to have it in the first place. With lots of limits imposed, you might as well have got a 4080 instead.

Then how about its size? I have 3 expansion slots available in my rig (AMD likes having the top m.2 in the first slot). Every 4090 is at least 3 slots wide. How would it breathe? And no, I'm not getting a bigger case just to fit a bigger GPU. I like my PC the way it is.
You don't need any software control , sudo nvidia-smi -i 0 -pl XXX

Im in your exact situation, have a small case and an amd system with the top m2 in the first slot. No issues here. Anyways, back to topic?
 
Most of it has to do with their professional cards though right now they are selling at whatever Nvidia charges....

I still think their gaming gpus are in the 40-60% range though likely towards the top of that range.

I mean amds margins are 50%... Nvidias being only 20% higher given their stranglehold on the AI market is more surprising to me....
For a bit of perspective; I work in insurance, and its quite common here to see margins of between 3-10% across the whole business. The money is made in just a few products of the entire portfolio, many are even sold at loss.
 
You don't need any software control , sudo nvidia-smi -i 0 -pl XXX
OK, fair enough. I didn't know that was an option. Still, if I had to do that, I'd much rather get a tier smaller GPU and not limit it in the first place. It's cheaper as well, and less hassle.

Im in your exact situation, have a small case and an amd system with the top m2 in the first slot. No issues here. Anyways, back to topic?
Yep, that's what I'm having. And I find mid-range GPUs absolutely fine for my needs. Sure, let's get back on topic. :)
 
Yep, that's what I'm having. And I find mid-range GPUs absolutely fine for my needs. Sure, let's get back on topic. :)

They could make the 4090 into a 200w product and it would murder everything else in that segment now slap it with a 500 usd price and nobody but blind fanboys would buy anything else is I think what he meant not the actual gigantic 4090 we have right now being discounted to 500 usd which anyone would also be crazy to buy anything else as well at 300w its like 10% slower vs stock btw.... It's so unrealistic it's probably not even worth contemplating though.
 
They could make the 4090 into a 200w product and it would murder everything else in that segment now slap it with a 500 usd price and nobody but blind fanboys would buy anything else is I think what he meant not the actual gigantic 4090 we have right now being discounted to 500 usd which anyone would also be crazy to buy anything else as well at 300w its like 10% slower vs stock btw.... It's so unrealistic it's probably not even worth contemplating though.
Sounds nice... although the thing I'm contemplating is a half-height 4060 limited to 75 W and having no power connector. That would be surely worth the price to me. It's a shame Nvidia will never make one. :(

Edit: Or something like this made out of a 4060. I actually have one of those, and it's awesome!
 
Sounds nice... although the thing I'm contemplating is a half-height 4060 limited to 75 W and having no power connector. That would be surely worth the price to me. It's a shame Nvidia will never make one. :(

They could easily make a decent no power connector card... I agree, its a shame they don't.

Guessing they might do it with a 5050 but I'm not holding my breath more likely to go the BS 4060 6G route lol
 
Sounds nice... although the thing I'm contemplating is a half-height 4060 limited to 75 W and having no power connector.
A geforce version of the a2000/4000 Ada SFF really. Now there's a situation that's a true shame, keeping what would make for amazing <70w half height cards for professional segment.
 
They could make the 4090 into a 200w product and it would murder everything else in that segment now slap it with a 500 usd price and nobody but blind fanboys would buy anything else is I think what he meant not the actual gigantic 4090 we have right now being discounted to 500 usd which anyone would also be crazy to buy anything else as well at 300w its like 10% slower vs stock btw.... It's so unrealistic it's probably not even worth contemplating though.
What im saying is that the 4090 is a product you just buy if price isn't a concern, the same way you'd buy a 9950x 3d if price wasn't a concern. They are just the best at everything you are going to use them for, period. They are proper halo products.
 
What im saying is that the 4090 is a product you just buy if price isn't a concern, the same way you'd buy a 9950x 3d if price wasn't a concern. They are just the best at everything you are going to use them for, period. They are proper halo products.
Dual CCD X3D CPUs have some scheduling issues which makes them unattractive for some. The 7950X3D, for example, isn't faster in games than the 7800X3D.

Price not being a concern and shopping with your ass instead of your brain are two separate matters. With infinite money, I'd still rather go on a trip every week/month than buy a 4090.

I've upgraded my PC many times resulting in a "meh, it's fast, so what?" reaction, which made me downgrade again. I build my PCs for the fun of it, not because I need them to be super fast.
 
What im saying is that the 4090 is a product you just buy if price isn't a concern, the same way you'd buy a 9950x 3d if price wasn't a concern. They are just the best at everything you are going to use them for, period. They are proper halo products.

While I mostly agree the smallest 4090 is gigantic and that could put off a minority of people....

The 9950X3D some people night not want to deal with it's semi hybrid nature and would prefer a more plug and play option....

But given the right price both those limitations could be over come pretty easily.

Dual CCD X3D CPUs have some scheduling issues which makes them unattractive for some. The 7950X3D, for example, isn't faster in games than the 7800X3D.

.

It takes all of maybe 10m to make it faster in the majority of games without losing the MT performance.

I agree though it should just come that way out of the box.
 
While I mostly agree the smallest 4090 is gigantic and that could put off a minority of people....

The 9950X3D some people night not want to deal with it's semi hybrid nature and would prefer a more plug and play option....
Exactly! There's more to a CPU or GPU than how fast it is. PC building is not a one-dimensional thing.

It takes all of maybe 10m to make it faster in the majority of games without losing the MT performance.

I agree though it should just come that way out of the box.
On Linux, too?
 
While I mostly agree the smallest 4090 is gigantic and that could put off a minority of people....

The 9950X3D some people night not want to deal with it's semi hybrid nature and would prefer a more plug and play option....

But given the right price both those limitations could be over come pretty easily.
There are 4090s that fit in the smallest of cases - especially the aio ones

Regarding the CCD, I swear i've never actually seen the 7950x 3d being slower than the 7800x 3d within my gaming enthusiast community. I don't know what they do in regards to tinkering with them but the dual ccd is ALWAYS faster than the 7800x 3d.
 
Exactly! There's more to a CPU or GPU than how fast it is. PC building is not a one-dimensional thing.


On Linux, too?

Now if AMD could just make a 200w 4090 we'd all win... lmao


It's a bios settings so it should work
Regarding the CCD, I swear i've never actually seen the 7950x 3d being slower than the 7800x 3d within my gaming enthusiast community. I don't know what they do in regards to tinkering with them but the dual ccd is ALWAYS faster than the 7800x 3d.

For me locally with the same motherboard and memory it was slower in games out of the box but one bios settings fixed that and process lasso can even make it a couple percent faster.
 
There are 4090s that fit in the smallest of cases - especially the aio ones

Regarding the CCD, I swear i've never actually seen the 7950x 3d being slower than the 7800x 3d within my gaming enthusiast community. I don't know what they do in regards to tinkering with them but the dual ccd is ALWAYS faster than the 7800x 3d.
Really?
relative-performance-games-2560-1440.png
 
Now if AMD could just make a 200w 4090 we'd all win... lmao
Would we though? I can see nvidia figuring out it's not worth it to sell huge dies with low margins and withdraw from the gaming market, and then we end up with an amd monopoly. That's why I think prices are here to stay. Actually I would'nt be the slightest bit surprised if the xx70 tier moves to 800$ or more in the next 5 years.

Read my post again man.
 
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