Saturday, October 29th 2011
ARM Going 64-Bit To Compete In High-End Desktop Market
Judging by their latest press release, ARM Ltd really is serious about competing with Intel and AMD in the high-end desktop and server computing market, where competition is fierce. For years, ARM had said that there was no need to extend their architecture to 64-bit yet. However, it appears that the time has now come for this to happen, as ARM has announced its new ARMv8 architecture, the first to include a 64-bit instruction set, at ARM TechCon 2011 in Santa Clara, California. ARM CTO Mike Muller said:
Muller also explained that the ARMv8 architecture will have 32- and 64-bit modes, much like today's x86/x64 CPU's which should ease transition into the 64-bit world for existing applications. The 32-bit mode is called AArch32 and the 64-bit mode AArch64. Key features of the existing ARMv7 instruction set will also be kept, as would be expected. Some of these features are: TrustZone, virtualization and NEON advanced SIMD, which will be either maintained or extended, as appropriate.
Put this together with Microsoft's endorsement of the ARM architecture and the fact that Windows 8 will run natively on it, ARM has a significant shot at the big time on the desktop. Microsoft exec KD Hallman, said:
Intel did actually buy the rights to make ARM processors several years ago and for a while sold products under their XScale brand, before eventually selling the business to Marvell. One wonders why Intel didn't start a transition to the efficient ARM architecture along with the processor-agnostic Microsoft years ago? This would have left the cumbersome x86 architecture, released way back in the 1970's, as the museum piece it should be. Apple proved this sort of transition was possible by their very successful switch from PowerPC to x86 in 2006. So, will the decision not to go down the ARM route now come back to byte Intel? ARMv8-based products are expected to be announced in 2012, with prototypes in 2014, so dominance of x86 will not be threatened for the next few years.
ARM Ltd is a British computer company that was spun off as the processor division of Acorn Computers in 1990. While Acorn (the company which made the BBC Micro, Archimedes and Risc PC computers) didn't do so well (it had a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory) got unceremoniously taken apart at the start of the century and eventually become subsumed into Broadcom, the elegant and efficient ARM RISC processor design they created in the mid 1980's has become by far the most dominant force in virtually every embedded application, especially mobile phones and other portable devices, due to its massive market share. It's therefore not so surprising that this architecture is starting to go head to head with the most widely used architecture on the planet, Intel's x86 (and x64 by extension) in the lucrative desktop processor market.
So, will ARM eventually dethrone formidable foe Intel as top dog? The next decade will tell.
ARMv8 will enable the development of ARM architecture compatible devices that can be designed to maximize the benefits across both 32-bit and 64-bit application areas. This will bring the advantages of energy-efficient 64-bit computing to new applications such as high-end servers and computing, as well as offering backwards compatibility and migration for existing software through a consistent architecture.
Put this together with Microsoft's endorsement of the ARM architecture and the fact that Windows 8 will run natively on it, ARM has a significant shot at the big time on the desktop. Microsoft exec KD Hallman, said:
ARM is an important partner for Microsoft. The evolution of ARM to support a 64-bit architecture is a significant development for ARM and for the ARM ecosystem.Other big industry players are interested in this too such as NVIDIA, who are currently selling their Tegra ARM-based line of products. NVIDIAs Dan Vivoli said:
The combination of Nvidia's leadership in energy-efficient, high-performance processing and the new ARMv8 architecture will enable game-shifting breakthroughs in devices across the full range of computing - from smartphones through to supercomputers.Naturally, the two players who are most definitely not interested in this development are Intel and AMD, who have their businesses firmly rooted in the x86/x64 line of processors and competing against each other, so it remains to be seen what kind of competition they will bring to ARM desktop processors. Also, given the litigious nature of this high stakes industry and considering the recently settled spat between Intel and AMD, one wonders what lawsuits will be flying ARM's way from one or both of these companies.
Intel did actually buy the rights to make ARM processors several years ago and for a while sold products under their XScale brand, before eventually selling the business to Marvell. One wonders why Intel didn't start a transition to the efficient ARM architecture along with the processor-agnostic Microsoft years ago? This would have left the cumbersome x86 architecture, released way back in the 1970's, as the museum piece it should be. Apple proved this sort of transition was possible by their very successful switch from PowerPC to x86 in 2006. So, will the decision not to go down the ARM route now come back to byte Intel? ARMv8-based products are expected to be announced in 2012, with prototypes in 2014, so dominance of x86 will not be threatened for the next few years.
ARM Ltd is a British computer company that was spun off as the processor division of Acorn Computers in 1990. While Acorn (the company which made the BBC Micro, Archimedes and Risc PC computers) didn't do so well (it had a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory) got unceremoniously taken apart at the start of the century and eventually become subsumed into Broadcom, the elegant and efficient ARM RISC processor design they created in the mid 1980's has become by far the most dominant force in virtually every embedded application, especially mobile phones and other portable devices, due to its massive market share. It's therefore not so surprising that this architecture is starting to go head to head with the most widely used architecture on the planet, Intel's x86 (and x64 by extension) in the lucrative desktop processor market.
So, will ARM eventually dethrone formidable foe Intel as top dog? The next decade will tell.
54 Comments on ARM Going 64-Bit To Compete In High-End Desktop Market
However, tune the designs for out and out performance the way current desktop x86 chips are and you have a monster! So yes, having 64-bit chips out and running Windows natively is indeed a threat to Intel. As ARMs an efficient and streamlined RISC load/store architecture, I reckon that for the same number of transistor, heat and power use you would get more performance than x86. You just need to build them with the same high technology that currently goes into an x86 CPU to realise this.
But then you make a valid point here:No, x86 apps most certainly do not run on it and that is a major catch 22. ARM & Microsoft need to work together to make the mother of all emulators, so that x86 performance is reasonable, while ARM performance is blisteringly fast and hence an attractive target to code for. It's a tough call and will require significant market penetration of ARM processors to pull off, but this is the world arena and Microsoft at least, has the resources to pour into it so they could help ARM out here in some sort of partnership. What we need is a WOW emulator that works seamlessly as the current one and with high performance - a tough call indeed. It's well known that there's no love lost between Microsoft and Intel, so this is quite a realistic prospect.
androiddosbox.appspot.com/
AMD owns the license x86 64bit license. you could bring out any other processor thats no x86 and AMD can't do a thing...
I would be nice to see a non x86 desktop cpu. ...
I can't see arm doing any worse than AMDs latest offerings
Bring it on :-)
In short, I think ARM can make a good processor for the everyman (like AMD APUs and Via platforms) but don't expect it to be good for anything more demanding than video playback. For example, it wouldn't be able to run games, compile anything, encode video, edit massive pictures, etc. worth a shit.
I think what Microsoft is aiming for is something that can compete with the Google Chrome Book by substantially bringing the costs of basic internet computers down and at the same time, provide a lot more flexibility to OEMs to turn it into whatever they want.
As I think about it whilst typing this, it sounds like Microsoft wants to pull and Apple and make Windows-powered disposable appliances available rather than something that is maintained like the Windows world currently is (less Phone).
But this is all wonderful speculation, which is why I ended my article with "The next decade will tell." :)
Would be nice to see 3 players in the field once again and i am sure some of you remember the old ibm \ win chips and what happened to them.
Wouldn't hold my breath for their chips. But competition is competition. My wallet's gonna loooove this~ :D
ARM will open so many doors for google if they were aquired by them. not just in the hardware sector, but in the software sector also. ARM+Andriod OS = serious business.
edit: Oh, and they could work with nvidia to have a Tegra on steroids and slap that in the package, and that would be ARM's answer to the APU or intel's cpu's with integrated graphics.
In short, ARM won't compete with the desktop variants of Intel and AMD processors. Instead, it will focus on AMD Geode, Intel Atom, and Via Nano products.
Google has Android OS and just recently aquired Motorola's 'Mobility' side of the business - thats the division that has EVERYTHING to do with Motorla mobiles and pads.
and that gives google even more power to take on the pad and somewhat the mobile handset market as most of the critical components can be sourced from 'in house' instead of from external sources which cuts overheads and puts them out of the line of fire from bullies like APPLE who will probably start finger pointing and screaming out 'patent infringement' as soon as google gets its first google made pad out onto the market.
Google can also SELL ARM processors which rakes them even more revenue in both sales and royalties.
It makes perfect sense. whether or not Google will take that step is another story but i wouldnt put it past them. with the way technology market and ARM has grown in the past few years. ARM must look very tasty to any tech company that has money to throw around.
IBM is a small possibility
Samsung is probably one of the companies that can stop google getting ARM. they have a huge market share and probably enough cash to throw around to counter any offer Google has depending on how desperate google are.
As for M$ - It doesnt make a lot of sense for them to aquire it - they have no use for it other then just holding onto the patents and licenses. They are a software company not hardware.
Interesting.
Arm's Whetstone and Linpack still fails against x86's
I'm not sure where these devices will successfully compete, but competition is always a good thing. It's still pretty early to make any kind of valid determination (although we do love our speculation here on TPU. :D ), but we should no more in the near future as new things hit the market using ARM's architecture.
Regardless, if the kind of mojo that goes into an Intel x86 processor went into an ARM processor, then its performance would jump several orders of magnitude, no question. The way that the original 8088 from 1978 has been transformed into today's powerhouses is nothing short of phenomenal.
And Kreij is right, that does sound dirty. :laugh: :toast:
ARM back in the day was clock for clock faster than the Motorola CPUs of the time.
Just getting other people's opinion and doing some information gathering. Thanks. (^___^)
Welcome to TPU. :toast: