Valve does what Valve wants.

People have been asking Valve for Steam and Source on Linux for years. Valve is catering to them while bashing Microsoft. I'm of the opinion it would take a lot for Gabe Newell to bash Microsoft for anything, since he bacme a millionaire working there for 13 years.

nvidiaintelftwWin8 is better then Linux. Windows in general is better then Linux. I don't care what anyone says about DirectX vs. OpenGL

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's better than Linux. It's certainly more user friendly and supported better than Linux.

tacosRcoolwho really cares after 240 fps?

I think the benefit is more to do with being able to play the games on lower end machines at higher frame rates with Linux rather than targeting high end machines which already get optimal frame rates in game.

Either way I am all for the progression towards making games run well on Linux.

I persoally couldn't care less how fancy my desktop graphics look, which in turn taxes my system gaming performance.
All I care about is the frame performance in game and what the graphics look like in game.

DannibusXI wouldn't go so far as to say it's better than Linux. It's certainly more user friendly and supported better than Linux.

It is better than Linux for the average person... the average consumer

whether Linux is better than Windows for people like us is a whole other battle

n-sterIt is better than Linux for the average person... the average consumer

whether Linux is better than Windows for people like us is a whole other battle

Still incorrect, though.

It's easier for the average person to use. That has nothing to do with being better b/c windows is crap in every single area of measurement. Being able to lock nearly all of the market into your OS (thereby providing incredible support in terms of software) is the success. Familiarity of windows relates to ease of use, but has nothing to do with how it functions. It's simply the most widely used (important imo).

It's like comparing a high end car (big power) vs a FWD sedan. There's no contest that the high end car trumps the grocery getter, but in terms of ease of use (and say repair akin to configuration), the FWD wins.

The biggest difference and embarrassment (not only to microsoft but the consumers as well), is that you're paying for the FWD car while the high end car is free LMAO.

TheGuruStudStill incorrect, though.

It's easier for the average person to use. That has nothing to do with being better b/c windows is crap in every single area of measurement. Being able to lock nearly all of the market into your OS (thereby providing incredible support in terms of software) is the success. Familiarity of windows relates to ease of use, but has nothing to do with how it functions. It's simply the most widely used (important imo).

It's like comparing a high end car (big power) vs a FWD sedan. There's no contest that the high end car trumps the grocery getter, but in terms of ease of use (and say repair akin to configuration), the FWD wins.

The biggest difference and embarrassment (not only to microsoft but the consumers as well), is that you're paying for the FWD car while the high end car is free LMAO.

Its no where near as easy to use as Windows or OSX. Not even close.

TheGuruStudThe biggest difference and embarrassment (not only to microsoft but the consumers as well), is that you're paying for the FWD car while the high end car is free LMAO.

flawed analogy. its more like a race car - yes, its faster. but its only faster because so much has been stripped out and removed.

What's been stripped out?

hellrazorWhat's been stripped out?

almost everything.


yes, you say it can run OGL. great. cant run DX9/10/11 or 99% of existing games. driver support is very limited, you certainly wont get third party software for them (EG, you may find a printer driver - but it wont come with a program to let you measure your ink/toner levels)


linux is a barebones OS. thats its design. most people will choose a slower OS with more features, than a faster one that can take hours of learning/tweaking to get working right.

jesus, look at the hatred when new versions of windows come out - minor changes cause massive hate. and you're seriously expecting people to jump ship entirely?

I don't call "minor" the removal of start button and classic desktop...;)

Musselsalmost everything.


yes, you say it can run OGL. great. cant run DX9/10/11 or 99% of existing games.

I've never had any problems getting it to run DX games, hell I had Neverwinter Nights 2 running on it when it wouldn't run on Windows (it didn't get along with my video card). WINE for the win.

Musselsdriver support is very limited, you certainly wont get third party software for them (EG, you may find a printer driver - but it wont come with a program to let you measure your ink/toner levels)

I wouldn't say driver support is "very limited", sure it's behind but it's perfectly usable - and I'm sure you could find something to measure your printer ink (you'd probably have to take a run through the repositories), I don't ever remember having that problem.

hellrazorI've never had any problems getting it to run DX games, hell I had Neverwinter Nights 2 running on it when it wouldn't run on Windows (it didn't get along with my video card). WINE for the win.



I wouldn't say driver support is "very limited", sure it's behind but it's perfectly usable - and I'm sure you could find something to measure your printer ink (you'd probably have to take a run through the repositories), I don't ever remember having that problem.

WINE is capped at SM2.0. old games work, nothing modern will.

FordGT90ConceptHardware support.

Linux supports a lot of hardware out of a box. My PC kept changing over the years and usually it worked on Linux without any need to install the drivers, which i can not say about Windows. Obviously, this would require an additional support from hardware manufacturers for some systems (mostly for printers and graphic cards), but everything is possible as Microsoft turns really bad way.

TheMailMan78NVIDIA drivers suck for Linux. I mean they really, REALLY F#$KING SUCK.

May i ask how/why? If your graphics card is older then +-6 months, most likely it'll work out-of-box. Now i run Linux Mint and all i had to do after installing it was to run Update Manager. That was it (no additional driver downloads, nothing).

Red_MachineBallmer is evil sent from Apple?
HE HELPED BUILD THE DAMN COMPANY BEFORE APPLE RATED A BLIP ON THE RADAR!

Cheer up Steve ;) Even if you did something, now you're going really bad way. People never liked Windows Phone 7, now you do same to Windows. Win 8 isn't even released yet and people hates it already.

Dent1It's been 11 years since Windows XP it's still easier to use, has a bigger application library, and has more application compatibility than Linux ever has.
...I think I'll take the 5% performance loss.

Then be ready to take lost user interface, your freedom and game developers. BTW, i loved Windows XP, i like Windows 7 (which has some downsides), but Windows 8 is.... :D

tacosRcoolwho really cares after 240 fps?

I stop caring after 120FPS... let alone 240

jigar2speedI stop caring after 120FPS... let alone 240

Man, it obviously makes no difference for particular game, it just shows that hardware resource-hungry games can perform better on Linux... A lot of people overclock their PC's to gain those extra 5%.

Musselsthat alone asys it all. 3dmark 06.


its like complaining that your new windows 8 machine loads minesweeper too slow. the fact that a 5 year old benchmark runs slower on a new OS should mean nothing, because the benchmark was DESIGNED FOR THAT OS.

Very clever, until you find that the same results translate to newer benchmarks as well - which I'm SURE you have to be aware of Muss, it's common knowledge that since vista Windows DOES deliver less bang for you hardware buck than it used to, owing to a number of changes in how Direct(Whatever) is handled, changes which also made a lot of NEW things possible.

I just happened to use x06 as an example.

Windows7 has a GRAND number of massive improvements over older generations too - this is also a blatant fact - and they are well worth the overall performance penalty - but the fact that the bonuses are well worth it does NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to remove the fact that there are very real losses, that can be very easily measured and proven, both on GPU and CPU throughput.

This thread basically boils down to an issue of an OS doing the same thing on effectively thew same hardware more efficiently than another OS.

That's all I was talking about.

I lie, I also spoke about how I hate metro... NOT WINDOWS 8, just metro the retarded interface - underneath that anyone with half a brain knows there has also been a lot of work done there - I just don't see why that SHIT metro interface cant simply be a selectable "Theme" where one can CHOSE to use a normal desktop if they pleased, or weren't completely retarded.

I hate metro the INTERFACE...

... not Windows 8 - the OS that runs underneath it.

BazookaJoe, i absolutely agree with your post and i feel like i should correct my previous post - i hate Metro UI, not Windows 8 itself. Ofcourse, there are more things that i dislike (no start button, Stupidbar that came with Windows 7 and so on), but UI is the main one.

TheMailMan78NVIDIA drivers suck for Linux. I mean they really, REALLY F#$KING SUCK.

That would mean Nvidia's Windows drivers also suck, as most of their (windows and linux driver) codebase is shared.
And also:

TheMailMan78Ive been using Linux Mint this week. However I ended up uninstalling it because I honestly had no idea what I was doing [...]

Was it Your opinion that these drivers suck, or did You read/hear that somewhere? 'Cause apparently, You didn't really had a chance to asses their "badness" on Linux. I mean, one week of "no idea what I am doing"? Oh, come on! ¬___¬

FordGT90ConceptHardware support.

I had more problems with hardware support on Win7 than on Linux (which was no problem at all). Three different network cards I tried using on Win7 have no drivers for it whatsoever. And that's just the start of the list. No such problems in linux x0ax0ax0a!!!

MusselsWINE is capped at SM2.0. old games work, nothing modern will.

At the current time, this is only partially true. And it is moving towards "Your statement is no longer true" at a reasonable pace. Wine [1] isn't standing still.

johnnyfiive

• L4D2 runs faster in linux than Windows, yeah, in crappy OpenGL. How about some screenshot comparisons between the two? How about we max all the graphic features in the Linux version and Windows version.... you'll see exactly why it runs faster in Linux, because it looks like garbage in comparison due to OpenGL limitations.

You, sir, seem to know very little about OGL and its capabilities.

johnnyfiive

• The only thing keeping you from Linux as your main OS is gaming? Really?
  So you're saying your fine with changing shells, writing scripts/misc code, compiling, and making your own installs for basic applications?

I prefer it. =P


[1] "Wine" is the correct capitalization.

BazookaJoeIt's been a long known "thing" that the new windows versions are measurably slower than even previous windows'es.

Its sad really that My machine scores nearly 2000 points extra on 3Dmark06 in a WinXP boot than it does in Win7.

Newer versions of windows don't really give a shit if your perfectly standard sound card works or not anymore or where your GPU juice goes - its FAAR FAR FAR more important that your title bar is transparent so you can barely tell one window from the other, that your mouse has shadows, and that EVERYTHING slides around and wooshes in and out like you just bounced a bag of spoiled weed

I don't know how custumisable W8 is (interface wise) but Win 7 can be adapted well enough. The translucency of the task and title bars can be disabled by right clicking on the desktop and chosing for "adapt to preferences"or whatever it is called (go to colour settings).

Prima.VeraOpenGL was ALWAYS faster than DirectX. That's why ALL professional design, rendering or animation software are using OpenGL.

FordGT90ConceptDirectX has a singular objective which is to run games. OpenGL doesn't have a singular objective in mind so it is more flexible.

Like Ford said Direct3D is more aimed at games specifically, which helps in a game development perspective. OpenGL is not focussing that much on games, and I think that how graphics rendering in CAD etc. works differs from how it does in games.

TheMailMan78NVIDIA drivers suck for Linux. I mean they really, REALLY F#$KING SUCK.

What drivers? Did you actually make sure you use the official nvidia drivers and not the Nouveau drivers? Last time i looked Mint (and Fedora) default to the Nouveau drivers.

Musselsits not just video cards. its networking, mice/keyboards, audio, and game controllers (such as steering wheels, gamepads, joysticks, etc) and once people use it as a primary OS, then the printers, scanners, faxes, mobile phones, filthy apple products and so on all need to get working as well.

do i support linux? sure. but its not going to be a quick fix of "yay valve games work on linux" and its suddenly a viable OS for the masses.

Even though I do agree, in part, to the hardware thing I have to disagree with the fact that you seem to think that "the masses" game on PCs. The "masses" game on consoles.

TheMailMan78They kindly told me to take a programing class. :laugh:

What was your issue and what forums were you at to ask about it? Clearly not TPU, even though we have got Linux and programming sections available.

DannibusXValve does what Valve wants.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's better than Linux. It's certainly more user friendly and supported better than Linux.

More user friendly? Perhaps to those strongly accustomed to Windows, not so much harder than Windows for those living in rising markets (after all, they often have not used one and the same OS for many years).

Chevalr1cEven though I do agree, in part, to the hardware thing I have to disagree with the fact that you seem to think that "the masses" game on PCs. The "masses" game on consoles.

In the PC gaming industry, the masses game on Windows. Besides, the masses actually do game on PC, do not forget farmville etc ARE PC games.

far more gaming happens on PC, than ever will on consoles. the consoles are just marketed more heavily, since theres greater profit in those systems.

OH NOES, A GAME WHEN RAN ON AN OS OTHER THAN MY PREFERRED OS IS FASTER THAN ON MY PREFERRED OS!

Chevalr1cWhat drivers? Did you actually make sure you use the official nvidia drivers and not the Nouveau drivers? Last time i looked Mint (and Fedora) default to the Nouveau drivers.

I used the 295.59 drivers. I had to type a code in to even get them to install correctly.

I find that both nVidia drivers and fglrx drivers are both a little finicky, but honestly, I've had similar results with both. I've never had a video card that wouldn't install drivers, but how well they ran was a whole other story. I tended to find issues supporting mobility chipsets more than anything else. Granted 95% of the time that I'm using Linux, there is a good bet that I'm not using any 3d acceleration at all, so on my personal laptop (with a Mobility Radeon HD 3650,) I tend to use radeon drivers and not fglrx.

It's nice to see some push to get games on Linux since it is really is a good platform (the kernel itself.) Think for a minute for all of you people who have an Android-based phone or tablet. You're running Linux right there. Got an iPhone or iPad? IOS has you running a flavor of BSD right there. So all in all, it's not like Linux is a bad platform, it's just a preference for those who tend to develop and not want to pay for an OS like Windows. I know that if I didn't play games, I would be running Linux as a host OS, and have Windows for little things that require Windows. Games and my wife are the only things that are keeping Windows on my machine (it is also setup to dual-boot, so best of both worlds anyways.)

Also honestly, fglrx on my tower detects crossfire in Linux. If only there was a half-decent game that could benefit from it. :P

Musselsfar more gaming happens on PC, than ever will on consoles. the consoles are just marketed more heavily, since there's greater profit in those systems.

Agreed indeed.

I'm very interested to see how this OUYA plays out though - I've never been a console fan - preferring the twitch response accuracy of a mouse, and the greater challenge presented by games without aim assist and the such, but this OUYA thinger does seem to be a very interesting endeavor...

IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT AN OUYA IS, AND CARE ABOUT CONSOLE GAMING, READ THIS

It's POTENTIAL to re-landscape the console battlefield is quite great - IF their expectations are anything to go by...

Musselsfar more gaming happens on PC, than ever will on consoles. the consoles are just marketed more heavily, since theres greater profit in those systems.

Wut?!?
The sales of games on consoles is much higher than on PC based systems, even when a game is released on both platforms.
If more gaming (and thus gamers) where playing on a PC platform than consoles we would see the developers and publishers catering to the PC crowd.
That is simply not the case.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your statement that "more gaming happens on PC".