So... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?

SaltyFishSo... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?

I was thinking maybe with more fabs overall prices will go down more in the line of we could get a flagship single gpu for $250. Just a thought i know this kind of prices are far from real.

Why is New York state so special? There's so many other states that are far more business friendly than New York. New York actually might have among the highest tax rates of all US states. This confounds the mind.

Regardless, I'm not going to complain about high tech manufacturing jobs anywhere in the USA.

SaltyFishHas the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?

Apparently, and one way to fix it is manufacturing locally.

SaltyFishSo... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?

What does this have to do with China? Taiwan is NOT China, so no you won't be getting mainland Chinese quality...

This is the point where asian countries will start taking over. In the past everything was done in asia, these days, asians are starting to build factories in US and EU. Meaning we might become cheaper for them here than by building stuff in their own countries... a thing to rethink a bit...

SaltyFishSo... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?

Errr fabs for chips aren't exactly like those plastic toys factories...if you cheap out you won't get anything out of it.
In industry like that it's not really important where is the factory, you will need good engineers in any of them.

FordGT90ConceptWhy is New York state so special? There's so many other states that are far more business friendly than New York. New York actually might have among the highest tax rates of all US states. This confounds the mind.

You can be sure they got some sweet tax deals to come into the state. And yea, it is cool to see this happening. However, on another note, perhaps it's a "mole" factory, here to use and "borrow" other technology that may be reserved for US soil.

SaltyFishHas the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?

Consider for a moment that TSMC wouldn't need to pay import/export taxes for US consumers if they do some manufacturing here. As an example, it's also becoming less and less cost effective to out-source to China, even more so with everything going on over there. The US also has a lot of people out of work and one of the most skilled work forces (not to say that we don't have a lot of unskilled people in the workforce or that we're a leader) but I can honestly think of a lot worse places to setup a factory.

Maybe they will put it right next door to the GlobalFoundries fab plant in Malta, NY.

Seriously people, Taiwan is not China. TSMC is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese.
They only manufacture in Taiwan, not China.
It's like calling American's Mexican or Canadian, which I'm sure wouldn't go down very well...

TheLostSwedeSeriously people, Taiwan is not China. TSMC is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese.
They only manufacture in Taiwan, not China.
It's like calling American's Mexican or Canadian, which I'm sure wouldn't go down very well...

I was using China as an example. :shadedshu
China isn't the only country where it isn't as economical as it used to be to out-source to various countries.

AquinusAs an example, it's also becoming less and less cost effective to out-source to China, even more so with everything going on over there.

TSMC should be building local to me. Just sayin. :p

btarunr40 percent of which are college-graduated engineers.

College graduated from where?

st.boneI was thinking maybe with more fabs overall prices will go down more in the line of we could get a flagship single gpu for $250. Just a thought i know this kind of prices are far from real.

You've gotta be joking. It's more likely they'd raise prices to cover costs from this move. They'll save more and charge more I think.

FordGT90ConceptWhy is New York state so special? There's so many other states that are far more business friendly than New York. New York actually might have among the highest tax rates of all US states. This confounds the mind.

Regardless, I'm not going to complain about high tech manufacturing jobs anywhere in the USA.

I believe Illinois has the highest taxes of the states, I live here in Chicago and it's ridiculous. You're also assuming the jobs are going to Americans. Be ready for a lot more immigrants in the states.

RejZoRThis is the point where asian countries will start taking over. In the past everything was done in asia, these days, asians are starting to build factories in US and EU. Meaning we might become cheaper for them here than by building stuff in their own countries... a thing to rethink a bit...

I see what you're saying and I agree. Eventually they'll be running all their factories here to supply the demands of the states, it makes lots of sense.

SasquiYou can be sure they got some sweet tax deals to come into the state. And yea, it is cool to see this happening. However, on another note, perhaps it's a "mole" factory, here to use and "borrow" other technology that may be reserved for US soil.

The taxes are just flat out ridiculous nationwide so I doubt the tax breaks are their end game here. I'm sure they have some other incentive.

AquinusConsider for a moment that TSMC wouldn't need to pay import/export taxes for US consumers if they do some manufacturing here. As an example, it's also becoming less and less cost effective to out-source to China, even more so with everything going on over there. The US also has a lot of people out of work and one of the most skilled work forces (not to say that we don't have a lot of unskilled people in the workforce or that we're a leader) but I can honestly think of a lot worse places to setup a factory.

I agree but who knows how many Americans they'll even employ.

TheLostSwedeSeriously people, Taiwan is not China. TSMC is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese.
They only manufacture in Taiwan, not China.
It's like calling American's Mexican or Canadian, which I'm sure wouldn't go down very well...

Mexicans would love to be called American :) most Mexicans wouldn't care at all. But whatever, people need to get over it.

maybe manufacturing has turned as easy as let's say "printing" and then producing close to the buyers makes sense...

I don't believe labor, tax and legislation has gotten in the First World (US/EU) so easy for corps that it makes a difference, but times are a-changing... stone age is closer than we think.

BTW: America is one thing, and 'Merica and Da States another, lol. Time will proof the bad choice of a countries name. hehehehehe, just accept it.

thelostswedeseriously people, taiwan is not china. Tsmc is a taiwanese company, not chinese.
They only manufacture in taiwan, not china.
It's like calling american's mexican or canadian, which i'm sure wouldn't go down very well...

Taiwan R.O.C.

Taiwanese don't mind being called Chinese, hell Singaporeans don't.

Guys forget one of the reasons China became so popular. The percentage and relatively close location to rare earths. Couple that with slave labor and you got a hit. I really don't see how TSMC is gonna make a profit on this. Yeah they are Taiwan, not China, but I'm sure Taiwan is still cheaper than US. Sure import and export will be negated but US labor is much higher. Unless the US is raising fees on those imports.

So from US, to Japan, to Taiwan, to China and now companies are coming...back to US? Don't get me wrong, I'd be glad to see a Made in USA label again. But for a time that label meant crap. Atari Jaguar was berated for that label. Made in USA was taboo. Quality was terrible and if you wanted quality you went to Japan. Made in USA didn't start standing for quality until suddenly the old US dinosaur businesses started folding. Jobs getting lost so oh no, we gotta support them! But still, its all hype. Have any of you even sat in a Ford from the last few years? Zomg, they are so flimsy, so much plastic it makes the cheapest of the cheap Japan/Korea car look good.

But now Lenovo brings a facility here, then TSMC is now too. Something is up. Companies don't just go investing heavy sums of money in projects like this if they don't expect to come out ahead. Goodwill to the nation and jobs is bs...there is no way they'd be taking a loss just on a PR stunt.

NC37But now Lenovo brings a facility here, then TSMC is now too. Something is up. Companies don't just go investing heavy sums of money in projects like this if they don't expect to come out ahead. Goodwill to the nation and jobs is bs...there is no way they'd be taking a loss just on a PR stunt.

Maybe the cost of fuel has gone up enough to make it profitable?

NC37Sure import and export will be negated but US labor is much higher.

The US's GDP to hours worked ratio is one of the best (or at least used to be, I don't know what it is now,) in the world short of Norway and Luxembourg. US workers tend to be good at adapting to different situations, so a single worker in the US might do something that would have taken a Chinese factory 3 people to do. So yeah, US workers cost more, but how many fewer US workers do you need to be just as productive as their Taiwanese counterparts?

AquinusThe US's GDP to hours worked ratio is one of the best (or at least used to be, I don't know what it is now,) in the world short of Norway and Luxembourg. US workers tend to be good at adapting to different situations, so a single worker in the US might do something that would have taken a Chinese factory 3 people to do. So yeah, US workers cost more, but how many fewer US workers do you need to be just as productive as their Taiwanese counterparts?

Most engineers here make around $1100 to $1500 U.S. a month.

HossHugeMost engineers here make around $1100 to $1500 U.S. a month.

I'm a developer and systems admin, I work in education, and I even make more than that, but the real question is how does that investment scale? Not how much will it cost. We won't know that until TSMC sets up the new Fab to tell if it helps or harms them. I have a feeling that TSMC knows something that we do not.

HossHugeMost engineers here make around $1100 to $1500 U.S. a month.

lul what are u serious :eek: didn't know America was that cheap. Honestly even I as an Technician got a better pay.
engineers in Austria are paid about 2500-5000€ in dollars $3200-$6400

why can't US companies keep their operations in the US? Their excuses do not have any merit anymore since these companies are doing the opposite

SetsunaFZerolul what are u serious :eek: didn't know America was that cheap. Honestly even I as an Technician got a better pay.
engineers in Austria are paid about 2500-5000€ in dollars $3200-$6400

I've taught at Delta, Benq, Unimicron, FSP, and now APD (Asian Power Devices) and at each place that's roughly what they make. They also get performance bonuses for Chinese New Year and some other holidays.

tacosRcoolwhy can't US companies keep their operations in the US? Their excuses do not have any merit anymore since these companies are doing the opposite

From what I understand, the companies were still making money before they pulled out of the U.S. They just wanted to maximize profits so they went elsewhere.

Fabulous