Silas WoodruffNot to mention mantle improves your performance by covering stuff you can usually see with fog or at least that's how I remember it works.

unlike nvidia, AMD does not make things specific to their hardware. both mantle and tressfx can be used easily with nvidia GPUs.

de.das.dudeunlike nvidia, AMD does not make things specific to their hardware. both mantle and tressfx can be used easily with nvidia GPUs.

before any talk about mantle will work with other gpu we need AMD to open the API first.

renz496before any talk about mantle will work with other gpu we need AMD to open the API first.

if they release it now nvidia fanboys will complain that amd is releasing an incomplete version for open source and keeping the good ones for themselves.

de.das.dudeif they release it now nvidia fanboys will complain that amd is releasing an incomplete version for open source and keeping the good ones for themselves.

i didn't say AMD has to open it NOW. i only said that before further talking about Mantle can be used by other architecture that is not GCN we need AMD to open the spec first. intel, nvidia or any other gpu maker out there can't do anything right now because they don't even have anything to work with. BTW what is so beta about Mantle anyway? the API has been used by more than one game right now. did we ever see game use beta version of DX/OpenGL get sold?

renz496i didn't say AMD has to open it NOW. i only said that before further talking about Mantle can be used by other architecture that is not GCN we need AMD to open the spec first. intel, nvidia or any other gpu maker out there can't do anything right now because they don't even have anything to work with. BTW what is so beta about Mantle anyway? the API has been used by more than one game right now. did we ever see game use beta version of DX/OpenGL get sold?

just because it has been put to use doesnt necessarily mean its complete. things like this take more than a year to perfect.
even now you can actually clearly see the improvements step by step that has taken place over time to make it better.

Does it really matter if Mantle is 0.99 version or 1.01? Does it affect Nvidia users in any way? No? Does it affect Intel users in any way? No. Does it offer a few extras to Radeon users? Possibly yes.

What is the problem if Mantle is or it isn't open? Let's say that AMD is lying and it is proprietary. WHO CARES? AMD is not acting against any PC owner here no matter what brand is on it's hardware. Everyone seems to have a problem with Mantle that does not affect his gamming experience in any negative way, and at the same time is 100% supportive to the competition's monopolistic tactics. If this is not trolling or stubbornness or just selfishness, then it is just plain stupidity.

de.das.dudeif they release it now nvidia fanboys will complain that amd is releasing an incomplete version for open source and keeping the good ones for themselves.

renz496i didn't say AMD has to open it NOW. i only said that before further talking about Mantle can be used by other architecture that is not GCN we need AMD to open the spec first. intel, nvidia or any other gpu maker out there can't do anything right now because they don't even have anything to work with. BTW what is so beta about Mantle anyway? the API has been used by more than one game right now. did we ever see game use beta version of DX/OpenGL get sold?

de.das.dudejust because it has been put to use doesnt necessarily mean its complete. things like this take more than a year to perfect.
even now you can actually clearly see the improvements step by step that has taken place over time to make it better.

I think there is a more plausible reason WHY its still closed and called Beta, AMD trying to keep what ever advantage they have for as long as they can. Cue some people to Defend AMD saying they would never do this but come on their profits are on the line , and god forbid would another company come and and complete the work and take credit for it.

arbiterI think there is a more plausible reason WHY its still closed and called Beta, AMD trying to keep what ever advantage they have for as long as they can. Cue some people to Defend AMD saying they would never do this but come on their profits are on the line , and god forbid would another company come and and complete the work and take credit for it.

amd does not hold on to things like that. if they wanted to they would have done that with tressFX. tress FX runs find on nvidias, and i have myself seen it work on a titan.

if amd ever cared about profits, they woulnt be on the brink of going out of business.

de.das.dudeamd does not hold on to things like that. if they wanted to they would have done that with tressFX. tress FX runs find on nvidias, and i have myself seen it work on a titan.

if amd ever cared about profits, they woulnt be on the brink of going out of business.

I remember when game was FIRST released took 40% of GTX780 just to turn that crapFX on. It wouldn't mattered if was closed off since it was coded using opencl which AMD had a lead in at the time. They are a company out to make profits don't try to BS anyone otherwise. Reason they can't make anything is well they try to look like the better hardware company when Software plays a key roll with the hardware and they have been behind in that side of things.

arbiterI remember when game was FIRST released took 40% of GTX780 just to turn that crapFX on. It wouldn't mattered if was closed off since it was coded using opencl which AMD had a lead in at the time. They are a company out to make profits don't try to BS anyone otherwise. Reason they can't make anything is well they try to look like the better hardware company when Software plays a key roll with the hardware and they have been behind in that side of things.

you make it sound like its AMDs fault that nvidia sucked with OpenCL.
and i really dont think you can tell they are behind when it comes to software, mainly because i am pretty sure nvidias drivers killed my GTS450 OC from gigabyte not AMD.

you are basing your opinions on rumors and not facts... just like a fanboy.

end of discussion.

arbiterI think there is a more plausible reason WHY its still closed and called Beta, AMD trying to keep what ever advantage they have for as long as they can. Cue some people to Defend AMD saying they would never do this but come on their profits are on the line , and god forbid would another company come and and complete the work and take credit for it.

Just a few months or just weeks after Mantle was released, Microsoft was showing DirectX12 running on Nvidia hardware. A few months latter, Microsoft and Intel where showing the benefits of DirectX12 on Surface with Intel gpu.

You can keep saying to yourself that AMD keeps it for itself and that it wants to benefit from it and whatever, the matter of fact is that Mantle RUNS EVERYWHERE ALREADY as DirectX12. You don't have to have a master in marketing to understand why Nvidia will not come out and support Mantle. Nvidia just come out with a new GPU architecture and kept Displayport 1.2 and I think continues to have limited OpenCL support as far as 1.1 or 1.2 version, and you expect them to come out and say "Look. Mantle is free and Nvidia cards can use it"? Do you really believe that? I personally don't think so.

arbiterI remember when game was FIRST released took 40% of GTX780 just to turn that crapFX on. It wouldn't mattered if was closed off since it was coded using opencl which AMD had a lead in at the time. They are a company out to make profits don't try to BS anyone otherwise. Reason they can't make anything is well they try to look like the better hardware company when Software plays a key roll with the hardware and they have been behind in that side of things.

Yes, and it took how much? A week to fix that? How much time has taken to Nvidia to offer a better performing PhysX on CPUs. How much is it going to take them to unlock it, even as a beta with NO support, for systems with AMD primary gpu and Nvidia secondary just for Physics? An eternity?


You take a wheel from a real Jumbo 747 and a wheel from a small toy car and you say

"LOOK THEY ARE BOTH WHEELS THEY ARE THE SAME. AMD AND NVIDIA ARE THE SAME"

john_Just a few months or just weeks after Mantle was released, Microsoft was showing DirectX12 running on Nvidia hardware. A few months latter, Microsoft and Intel where showing the benefits of DirectX12 on Surface with Intel gpu.

AMD knew about DX12 yet they still went on with their own proprietary API. AMD can say they didn't know about it but doubt that. That adaptive sync is only an OPTIONAL part of 1.2a and 1.3 its NOT required. Since there is 0 monitors out there that support that optional part they made choice not to support something you can't buy. Support could be in the cards and just need driver update since they pretty much can do adaptive refresh in any kepler card or newer.

john_Yes, and it took how much? A week to fix that?

That was the game nvidia wasn't given an advanced copy to optimize their driver for, I wonder who had a hand in that one?


AMD needs to stop acting like a charity case all the time and Do something about it. They barely do anything themselves and expect to get stuff for free, last i checked that isn't how business worked.

arbiterAMD knew about DX12 yet they still went on with their own proprietary API. AMD can say they didn't know about it but doubt that. That adaptive sync is only an OPTIONAL part of 1.2a and 1.3 its NOT required. Since there is 0 monitors out there that support that optional part they made choice not to support something you can't buy. Support could be in the cards and just need driver update since they pretty much can do adaptive refresh in any kepler card or newer.

AMD wanted to push forward lower level APIs to cover some of the distance with Intel cpus in gaming. So they created Mantle, and from the first day Microsoft talked about DX12 they said that they support it 100%. They said the same about OpenGL Next. We can't be sure when and if Microsoft or Chronos Group would have announced plans to create low level APIs. It doesn't matter if they where thinking about that or if they where working on that for decades. They might have never announced those new low level APIs for the PC market. So, yes maybe AMD knew about DX12 and maybe they also knew that Microsoft wasn't going to give it to the PC. And I am sure that neither Nvidia (better DirectX drivers) neither Intel (better cpu performance) where going to push Microsoft to announce something like that.
Look, about adaptive sync and also about OpenCL. When a company is choosing in their latest and greatest graphics cards series, to stay two generations behind, there is a reason and it's not something romantic like "Oh , let's see the monitors first" or "It's optional". Especially when they promote specific proprietary technologies that are competitive to that specific open standards.

That was the game nvidia wasn't given an advanced copy to optimize their driver for, I wonder who had a hand in that one?

One game? Nvidia is doing it all the time. The majority of titles where coded on Nvidia+Intel hardware for about forever. And everyone was blaming AMD and it's driver team. Now we have ONE game where the tables turn, and what a surprise, it is again AMD's fault.

It's funny. You have two fighters. One fighter keeps hitting the other with both fists and feet for years. Even under the belt. One day the other guy hits back, just once. And you CRY FOUL?

AMD needs to stop acting like a charity case all the time and Do something about it. They barely do anything themselves and expect to get stuff for free, last i checked that isn't how business worked.

Stop acting like a charity? You just objected about Tomb Raider. You not only want them to be a charity, you also want them with their hands tied.

I'm going to correct myself from a comment that was made earlier, I believe it was to someone who wanted to purchase GTX 970. The comment was that the Frame Time Variances of the GTX 970 and 980 show it dropping frames at a single card. This is incorrect. On the other hand, it's dropping frames at SLI setups. Looking at Graphs from PC Perspective and Guru3D, I've learned the following things:

1. Ryan Shrout still hasn't improved his abilities to understand how curves work on a 2D Cartesian Graph.
2. The ideology of a Percentile Versus Minimum FPS and Percentile Versus Frame Variances is proof enough to show why the Chinese are beating the Americans in Mathematics. To fix this, he should invert his data, make Frame Variances and Min FPS the input or independent, and make the percentile the output. Turn it into a bar graph, blah blah blah...
3. Even Mr. Shrout's graphs show frames dropping on 2-Way SLI, 3-Way SLI, and 4-Way SLI, but the diminishing returns at 4-Way SLI isn't decreasing as significantly in previous GTX 700 Series Models. In other words, Scaling has improved.
4. Even at single cards, there's no drop in frames, but the curves show it dipping to cause possible screen tears.

I am aware that my little "blah blah blah-fest" is not relevant to the original topic of discussion, but it's relevant to some information that I have said in the past... Hell, i'll just admit my own feelings and level with all of you. AMD, NVidia, Microsoft, Facebook, they all suck!!! Enjoy! As for AMD, go go Mantle. Get off your caboose and make your own version of PhysX and make it better than NVidia's because it sucks. Go go NVidia with Titan-Maxwell. If you suck, I am going R9-390x because of smaller node size and Stacked VRam. Microsoft, GG with DX12.0 Make it work, but most likely, you will fail because DX12.0 will probably require PC Games that support it like any other D3D version. Facebook, you just suck, and hurry up with a non-developers kit of Oculus PoS so we can be all VR nerd-gasmic.

Peace everyone. Back to producing song and working on 3D assets!