RejZoRWell, you kinda expect that a new GPU is better than the one that is already one and a half years old...

Well that is true, but Hawaii was released to counter the 18 month old GK110, which it could only just better in some scenarios. AMD just can't take the crown. Always have been a generation behind since AMD acquired ATI and are desperately clinging to performance crown with dual-GPU SKUs. Meanwhile Nvidia has the luxury (unfortunately) to release mid-tier GPUs every generation with premium markups (i.e. GK104 and GM204), because AMDs best just can't perform. Only price seems to be on their side, but even then some people would be happy to pay the premium for lower power draw and a cooler running card.

NaitoWell that is true, but Hawaii was released to counter the 18 month old GK110, which it could only just better in some scenarios. AMD just can't take the crown. Always have been a generation behind since AMD acquired ATI and are desperately clinging to performance crown with dual-GPU SKUs. Meanwhile Nvidia has the luxury (unfortunately) to release mid-tier GPUs every generation with premium markups (i.e. GK104 and GM204), because AMDs best just can't perform. Only price seems to be on their side, but even then some people would be happy to pay the premium for lower power draw and a cooler running card.

That isn't true.
AMD dies were smaller and nvidia allowed themsleves to build enormous ones.
AMD's strategy was to work with two dies in order to provide the same level of performance and given the optimisation in CF technology, this should be a completely sane move now.

Yeah, sometimes nvidia offers more efficient architectures but it hasn't always been like this.

The solution to your "unfortunately" is to invest in AMD. Exactly what I am repeating all the time.

We'll see how it goes. It might turn out that I'll just buy GTX 980 in the end, who knows. Just not the GTX 970...

Or I might even take a dive and buy R9-290X for a good price, though I find that a bit unlikely to happen...

Sony Xperia SThat isn't true.

Which part?

Sony Xperia SThe solution to your "unfortunately" is to invest in AMD. Exactly what I am repeating all the time.

My previous experiences of AMD/ATI were never good. That doesn't mean I have ruled then out forever, just means they haven't shown me anything worthy of my money. NVIDIA has always just worked for me right back to the RIVA TNT and early GeForce days. Nonetheless, I'm keen on new tech and am always interested to see what AMD brings.

NaitoWell that is true, but Hawaii was released to counter the 18 month old GK110, which it could only just better in some scenarios. AMD just can't take the crown. Always have been a generation behind since AMD acquired ATI and are desperately clinging to performance crown with dual-GPU SKUs. Meanwhile Nvidia has the luxury (unfortunately) to release mid-tier GPUs every generation with premium markups (i.e. GK104 and GM204), because AMDs best just can't perform. Only price seems to be on their side, but even then some people would be happy to pay the premium for lower power draw and a cooler running card.

Ok, what did you think about the HD 5870 and 7970? Pretty kick ass cards if you ask me!

the54thvoidI don't get what you're saying here? That an overclocked 980 runs faster than a 290X or vice versa. The way you worded it sounds like a 980 runs faster only when OC'ed but they run louder and hotter than yours (under water).

this is not going to shock some, others will call bullshit but let them.

i am saying that when overclocked a 290x is faster than a 980, but when it is also clocked it is then faster again, yes.

also it is a massive shock that a water cooled card runs cooler and quieter than an overclocked card which is air cooled.

for those interested the 980 (overclocked to its limit) would sit between 75 and 80c whilst making more noise.

Outback BronzeOk, what did you think about the HD 5870 and 7970? Pretty kick ass cards if you ask me!

They were awesome cards, and when the performance really mattered they had it and forced Nvidia to work hard are getting new products out. I hope the 3xx series are as or more efficient than the current offerings from the green camp, and have a full amount of RAM available.

Wow, let's not let our desires "bulldoze" everyone into thinking AMD can come out with a 28nm part that's going to just "crush" the competition, or honestly even do they want too? My thinking it's a tough "rabbit from the hat trick" as it's certain they're stuck on the same process. Then the flip side is the 300 Series might not be in the channel all that long... do they want to show everything they might have on the aging 28nm?

Truth is GCN hasn't shown the same luck in efficiency so far as Maxwell, so while they could show an improvement to be at least in-line at the "ticket booth" of the "ballpark", I don’t see them besting on perf/w. If Tonga was the best they could muster 5mo’s ago, I don't see even if they have HBM implemantation this first round it being any saving grace.

Given AMD's response time here... Let me first say, I think AMD had been working alternate paths', but they finally found them not taking them forward enough or cost effectively so they spent some time shifting plans. Was it about HBM or process related... don't know, I do think they juggled several concepts with limited resources. Trailing some 4mo's AMD does need to better the GM204. Especially given that Nvidia went "all in" on efficiency, and basically only provided "One-upsmanship" to over their (own) predecessors. AMD had better get over that low bar, if they can't take advantage of this, it tells somebody really screwed the pouch on engineering resources the last 3 or more years.

I like a lot of others here say, it would be a very bad to "have to" employ an AIO cooler in the "first round" for the reference 380X. I feel it would it be smart play to after several weeks to then offer a AIO Rad-Radon™ version that's OC to the hilt as an off-shoot product offering.

Given the issues/resources AMD has surely had to endure the last 3 years against a competitor that is firing-on-all-cylinders, just to be "in the hunt" at this point is all I can assume as "good enough" headway for now.

marsey99this is not going to shock some, others will call bullshit but let them.

i am saying that when overclocked a 290x is faster than a 980, but when it is also clocked it is then faster again, yes.

also it is a massive shock that a water cooled card runs cooler and quieter than an overclocked card which is air cooled.

for those interested the 980 (overclocked to its limit) would sit between 75 and 80c whilst making more noise.

Thanks for clarifying, not sure if you're trying to patronise me though (in bold)??? FTR, I genuinely hope AMD deliver a great product this time. I want to go back to a single solution 4K capable card. I love my watercooled 780ti sli set up but it's just because I'm a build nerd. I'm concerned about the rumours though that AMD release a 380X when they might also be holding off on a 390X. We all call Nvidia on it for doing just that so if people drop the bills for the 380X, then Nvidia drop GM200, then AMD drop the proper part, that would be really fucking annoying. I speak from experience as an original Titan owner.
That's the main reason I've not pre-ordered a 980 Kingpin.

I really dont care about R9 380x ot what ever its going to be called, I want the full chip R9 390X.

Price dont matter at all, if it costs 500+, 800+ dollars, I dont care I want it. I dont care about heat, i dont care about power consumption, just get me then damn chip.

Outback BronzeOk, what did you think about the HD 5870 and 7970? Pretty kick ass cards if you ask me!

The only cards that have had me interested have been the HD5870 and the latest 290/290X. The HD7970 was the beginning of top-tier vs mid-tier competition, so was not impressive, imo. Great if you mined, though.

Whatever happens AMD's new generation 3xx series will kill off the 970/980 and cripple resale value. I personally think it was a bad idea to buy a 970 or 980 knowing the 3xx series is due very soon.

My 290X has served me well and I get 980 performance. I get 15,000 3D marks (11) around the same as a 980, with load temps at 69-70 degrees and it runs silent. A lot of people still judge the 290X on early stock cooler reviews, with a decent non reference cooler the temps are good.

So when you think about it, Nvidia has released 2 generations since the 290X came out, and the 290X can still match 980 performance, sure the NVidia cards use less power but that's about it, not worth getting rid of a 290X, I'm going to transition from a 290X to 390X and I feel like I've had good value from that choice over the long term.

Here is my 3D mark 11 score with small overclock to 1090Mhz, CPU @4.7Ghz 15,443
www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9399288

buggalugsSo when you think about it, Nvidia has released 2 generations since the 290X came out...

Just the one.

EboI really dont care about R9 380x ot what ever its going to be called, I want the full chip R9 390X.

Price dont matter at all, if it costs 500+, 800+ dollars, I dont care I want it. I dont care about heat, i dont care about power consumption, just get me then damn chip.

R9-380X will be the top end model... 290X existed only due to rebranded 280X. Which was not cool but was a thing AMD could afford and they have. Meaning they had enough edge with HD7800 and HD7900 series to be able to do that.

the54thvoidThanks for clarifying, not sure if you're trying to patronise me though (in bold)??? FTR, I genuinely hope AMD deliver a great product this time. I want to go back to a single solution 4K capable card. I love my watercooled 780ti sli set up but it's just because I'm a build nerd. I'm concerned about the rumours though that AMD release a 380X when they might also be holding off on a 390X. We all call Nvidia on it for doing just that so if people drop the bills for the 380X, then Nvidia drop GM200, then AMD drop the proper part, that would be really fucking annoying. I speak from experience as an original Titan owner.
That's the main reason I've not pre-ordered a 980 Kingpin.

sorry dude i wasn't trying to patronise anyone, more draw interest to the key point of what i was saying :) it really did change that card once it got wet, even with just a cheap aio loop.

that is what the game has become, the 980 is about to be one upped buy what ever nv call the next big chip card once the 300s hit and we all go again. i have to say i am interested to see how the next nig nv card goes and what they do with it, if the 500mb gate incident has any impact on it you know.

CasecutterWow, let's not let our desires "bulldoze" everyone into thinking AMD can come out with a 28nm part that's going to just "crush" the competition

Wow, that's one hell of a hating. :D

For your information, AMD is working on a brand new CPU architecture which will be revealed later next year.

And for your information again, I did some extensive research on what my next configuration would be and guess what.... the most optimised solution would be to go ALL-AMD.

The question remains only to do it now or to wait a year or two. With 4K monitor, etc......... :rolleyes:

RejZoRR9-380X will be the top end model... 290X existed only due to rebranded 280X. Which was not cool but was a thing AMD could afford and they have. Meaning they had enough edge with HD7800 and HD7900 series to be able to do that.

source? the last AMD series that ended with a x8xx instead of x9xx was the 4000 series. the 5000(59xx), 6000(69xx), 7000(79xx), and the r9 200 series(290, 290x) ALL has a x9xx card. why would they NOT have one in the r9 300 series?
Many of the "leaks" also reference a 290x, not a 380x.

RejZoRR9-380X will be the top end model... 290X existed only due to rebranded 280X. Which was not cool but was a thing AMD could afford and they have. Meaning they had enough edge with HD7800 and HD7900 series to be able to do that.

FWIW, according to 3DCenter, the 380X will be a rebranded Hawaii (290/290X). Fiji (the top end model) will be the 390/390X, and Bermuda the dual-GPU card - which actually bears some logic, since AMD has reserved a separate code name for the same GPU in dual-GPU use ( Hawaii/Vesuvius, Tahiti/New Zealand, Cayman/Antilles, Cypress/Hemlock, RV770/R700 ).

HumanSmokeThe jump might not be as big as you estimate. An overclocked (on water) GTX 980 is in the same territory...and that's assuming the leaked 380X bench is real (although it should be in ballpark if the reported specs are legit)

Well that 980 has been pushed 400 on the core and over 300 in memory. It wont be able to run 24/7 stable. Even if it did it loses its power consumption advantage. Besides 380X will overclock too so your argument is nonsense.

harry90Well that 980 has been pushed 400 on the core and over 300 in memory. It wont be able to run 24/7 stable. Even if it did it loses its power consumption advantage. Besides 380X will overclock too so your argument is nonsense.

You mean the argument I didn't make?
It doesn't matter it's 24/7 stable or not - it is an indicator for the Maxwell architecture, in response to Sony's assertion about architecture.

Sony Xperia SEven the top-tier Maxwell will have problems dealing with this tremendous performance jump from the 380X - 8370 vs 5900 (980) 3D Marks....

Now since this basic comprehension seems to escaped you at least twice (see post #17) allow me to make it a little plainer than the last time I explained it in post #17:
IT.WAS.NOT.A.POST.COMPARING.THE.380X.TO.THE.GTX 980. :banghead:

IT.IS.ESTIMATING.THAT.A.GM200.CAN.REACH.THAT.SCORE.IF.AN.OVERCLOCKED.SMALLER.CHIP.USING.THE.SAME.ARCHITECTURE.IS. CAPABLE.OF.ATTAINING.IT. :eek:

HumanSmokeNow since this basic comprehension seems to escaped you at least twice (see post #17) allow me to make it a little plainer than the last time I explained it in post #17:
IT.WAS.NOT.A.POST.COMPARING.THE.380X.TO.THE.GTX 980. :banghead:

IT.IS.ESTIMATING.THAT.A.GM200.CAN.REACH.THAT.SCORE.IF.AN.OVERCLOCKED.SMALLER.CHIP.USING.THE.SAME.ARCHITECTURE.IS. CAPABLE.OF.ATTAINING.IT. :eek:

I begin to worry about your mental health. :(

Sony Xperia SI begin to worry about your mental health. :(

You shouldn't. If someone spends so much of their day constructing a straw man, the least I can do is bring a torch. :roll:

I'm not so sure they'll just rebrand R9-290X into R9-380X... After all, AMD's people were talking 380 specifically when they were mentioning new GPU. We'll see, but would be strange for such info to come from AMD directly and be wrong at the same time.

RejZoRI'm not so sure they'll just rebrand R9-290X into R9-380X... After all, AMD's people were talking 380 specifically when they were mentioning new GPU.

I doubt there is any direct quote from AMD regarding the 380X. The company has a record of not discussing new products until launch.
The only info I've seen comes from "leaks" and guesses. The difficultly lies in working out which is which, but neither are confirmed by AMD.

Possible codenames.
GPU Codename Radeon 200 Series GCN Architecture GPU Codename Radeon 300 Series GCN Architecture
Vesuvius Radeon R9 295X2 GCN 1.1 Bermuda Radeon R9 395X2 GCN 1.3?
Hawaii XT Radeon R9 290X GCN 1.1 Fiji XT Radeon R9 390X GCN 1.3?
Hawaii Pro Radeon R9 290 GCN 1.1 Fiji Pro Radeon R9 390 GCN 1.3?
Tahiti XT Radeon R9 280X GCN 1.0 Grenada XT Radeon R9 380X GCN 1.1
Tahiti Pro Radeon R9 280 GCN 1.0 Grenada Pro Radeon R9 380 GCN 1.1
Curacao XT Radeon R9 270X GCN 1.0 Tonga XT Radeon R9 370X GCN 1.2
Curacao Pro Radeon R9 270 GCN 1.0 Tonga Pro Radeon R9 370 GCN 1.2
Bonaire XT Radeon R7 260X GCN 1.1 Trinidad XT Radeon R9 360X GCN 1.1?
Bonaire Pro Radeon R7 260 GCN 1.1 Trinidad Pro Radeon R9 360 GCN 1.1?

Possible specs.
Fiji XT Grenada XT Tonga XT Trinidad XT
GCN Cores 4096 2816 2048 ?
Memory Capacity 4GB HBM 4GB GDDR5 3GB GDDR5 2GB GDDR5
Memory Interface 4096bit (Wide I/O) 512bit GDDR5 384bit GDDR5 256bit GDDR5
Boost Clock Speed ~1Ghz ~1Ghz+ ~1Ghz ?
Tables don't translate so well when cut n paste, sorry.