Thursday, May 4th 2017

TSMC Trade Secrets Stolen - Former Engineer Arrested In China

In the highly competitive, high-stakes scene of the business world - and particularly so in the silicon giants of the era - trade secrets, specifications, and protecting one's intellectual property that give the leg-up on competitors is key towards success. And while most companies work within the meanders of law (even if sometimes skirting it ever so lightly), some don't. And things like this happen: the steal (or purported steal, because no one has been convicted yet) of trade secrets by former employees is one of the most dreaded occurrences in the tech world - remember Zenimax and Carmack's "dovetailing"?

Chinese manufacturers are looking to enter the high-performance computing market with their own products, designs, and manufacturing capability. In this case, former TSMC engineer Hsu is being accused of stealing proprietary information and other materials related to the foundry's 28 nm process technology. The goal would be to pass them to China-based Shanghai Huali Microelectronics (HLMC), with which he accepted a job offer, according to the Hsinchu District Prosecutors Office. Digitimes reports that HLMC had been aggressively headhunting for talent to kick start its 28 nm manufacturing process, though if true, this sound like a little too aggressive of a headhunting.
Sources: Digitimes, WCCFTech
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36 Comments on TSMC Trade Secrets Stolen - Former Engineer Arrested In China

#26
RejZoR
Well, if you understand it that way, that's really your problem. One doesn't need 1000's of years to ingrain something in someone's culture to such extent. As we can see here, few decades is enough...

And I'm aware of west doing similar, but there is one big difference usually. Even if western company steals some competitor info, they don't blatantly copy it into their product. They'll say, ok, we got this info, what can we do with it to make our products better. And then their engineers try to figure out what competition has done better. That's how progress and innovations happen. China simply doesn't give a damn and just blatantly copies it. Not all, but majority does. Again, like I've said, they are forced to abandon their ways once they go global, because patents and lawsuits would kill them.
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#27
Prima.Vera
RejZoRThat's a fact, not something I made up or because I'd secretly hate Chinese. Chinese would do ANYTHING to make a business. Copy, steal, go the shortest shortcuts one can make to create products etc. And yes, that IS for a fact so deeply ingrained in their culture it's basically impossible to root it out now. Or ever probably. Don't mix in ancient China to Communist China. It's not related to one another AT ALL. What we're talking here is China of today and that's their global MO. Especially for companies that operate within China only because global laws pretty much don't apply to them. And this doesn't just go for our beloved electronics, they even do it for example growing of vegetables. They'll pour whatever chemicals and fertilizers they can get to make the thing grow at maximal rate regardless of how toxic and harmful it is to the end consumer. It's just business business business.

Only time Chinese companies have to actually begin obeying business laws and practices of the west is when they go global. Because they are simply forced into this. But having such massive market as China, basically anyone good enough at stealing and copying can become big to enter global markets. And it's easier to start doing that when you're already big than for example European or American startups that have to start from zero in a proper way without just copying someone's design and learning from that pretty much for free.

You can call me racist or Chinese hater, but that's all a fact, I'm more surprised you're not aware of it...

@laszlo
There is a difference between lending your excellent engineering skills and just plain handing them over the blueprints...
While I agree that 95% of any type of food coming from China is pure poison and shouldn't be allowed on any country, the same is valid for U.S. and some of the western European Countries. The food industry on those countries is just focused on callous profit and extra callous profit with absolutely NO REGARDS for human health and/or long term effects over humans.
While is no related to the topic at hand, what is related are those big countries trying to do profit in any way, despite of any common sense or fair practices.
Posted on Reply
#28
Boosnie
RejZoROne doesn't need 1000's of years to ingrain something in someone's culture to such extent. As we can see here, few decades is enough...
Such as?
RejZoRAnd I'm aware of west doing similar, but there is one big difference usually. Even if western company steals some competitor info, they don't blatantly copy it into their product. They'll say, ok, we got this info, what can we do with it to make our products better. And then their engineers try to figure out what competition has done better. That's how progress and innovations happen. China simply doesn't give a damn and just blatantly copies it. Not all, but majority does. Again, like I've said, they are forced to abandon their ways once they go global, because patents and lawsuits would kill them.
This is outright wrong.
Set aside that the process you describe for western companies trying to figure out how to innovate on stolen material is an embellishment of "trying not to get cought" and that's not wat innovation relies upon, the assertion that chinese industrial revolution is largely based on exploiting and copying western products is bogus.
China is going all the way out to innovate and create a cradle for the next generation drive of national growth(they are launching a frigging space station!). You can find a lot of data on chinese scientific production in the last 20 years online and all this data says one thing: in the last 10 years the scientific and engeenering output of the country has grown 100 folds.

But then, let's put into the discussion the fact that the knowledge of cheap counterfeiting has come to china solely through western companies outsurcing production to exploit slaverish labour costs (destroying our economy in the process).
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#29
RejZoR
Lol, that's not "trying not to get caught". Looking upon competitor products and improving yours based on that is what drives innovation forward. Stealing blueprints and making same thing with zero effort is what doesn't. Isn't this kinda self explanatory? If you're forced to think outside of box not to infringe existing designs and patents, what is a better way to innovate than this?
Posted on Reply
#30
Boosnie
RejZoRLol, that's not "trying not to get caught". Looking upon competitor products and improving yours based on that is what drives innovation forward. Stealing blueprints and making same thing with zero effort is what doesn't. Isn't this kinda self explanatory? If you're forced to think outside of box not to infringe existing designs and patents, what is a better way to innovate than this?
Dude you wrote it for yourself.
RejZoREven if western company steals some competitor info, they don't blatantly copy it into their product. They'll say, ok, we got this info, what can we do with it to make our products better.
If you're forced to think outside of box not to infringe existing designs and patents, what is a better way to innovate than this?
You have no idea how the patent system works, do you?
Posted on Reply
#31
DeathtoGnomes
thinking outside the box is called innovation. :banghead:
Posted on Reply
#32
RejZoR
BoosnieDude you wrote it for yourself.



You have no idea how the patent system works, do you?
And neither do you. Patents do not necessarily protect an outcome, they can only protect a mechanism or delivery for that outcome only. Getting same outcome using different mechanism can still be allowed.

And oh noes for not putting steal in quotes like "steal". How many times do I have to say stealing ones blueprints is very different to taking a retail competitor product, disassembling it and learning from that? Jesus...
Posted on Reply
#33
r9
xkm1948The ignorance level at TPU is truly amazing. At scientific research Chinese has been advancing faster than any other nation on this planet and yes that is including the good old USA. Our funding for scientific research has been horrible for quite some time. NIH, NSF and DOE haven't seen much budget increase for a very long time. A lot of labs have been closed due to lack of funding. While at the same time China has been recruiting loads of foregin and domestic talents to work on cutting edge research.

Stop living under rocks, they may still be trailing US now. With the current state of US (bat shit crazy liberals, shrinking public funding for scientific research) it will be a lot harder to say 20 yrs down the road.
So that's what stealing secrets is called today.
Posted on Reply
#34
DeathtoGnomes
RejZoRAnd neither do you. Patents do not necessarily protect an outcome, they can only protect a mechanism or delivery for that outcome only. Getting same outcome using different mechanism can still be allowed.

And oh noes for not putting steal in quotes like "steal". How many times do I have to say stealing ones blueprints is very different to taking a retail competitor product, disassembling it and learning from that? Jesus...
there are no laws against reverse engineering, its common practice everywhere and its not stealing. However obtaining something like a prototype unit/model/whatev (prior to being open for public purchase) with the intent to reverse engineer is still stealing regardless of intent.

What patents do is protect an exact design from being made by anyone else then the person or company owning the patent rights for a period of time. Getting the same outcome using different mechanisms didnt work for the Asetek "thiefs".
Posted on Reply
#35
RejZoR
Does it? I very much doubt EK is paying Asetek anything for their Predator design. It's an AiO, but I don't think any of the Asetek patents cover it. You often can't patent broad things, like patenting water cooling as whole. Asetek patents probably involve specifics of having a pump on the water block as single unit. Predator has it on the radiator. Again, I don't know the exact specifics of Asetek patents, but details are often very important.
Posted on Reply
#36
OneCool
No surprise. China can't "create" shit. Steal and copy as usual
Posted on Reply
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