RaevenlordAnd we've waited for Vega long enough, haven't we?

Honestly a bit too long, it feels almost still born. With Volta now being announced, Pascal feels as it's already run full circle on the illusive Vega.

I am all for AMD, and run a couple of their GPU's in my house currently (480 and a Fury X). With that said, I also use a Titan XP (First Pascal Titan) in my rig, and will likely just hold onto that guy until Volta at this point. As much as I want to see Vega, with the announcement this morning of the dual Vega GPU surfacing. I am siding with earlier speculations that AMD is following the same model as most all other releases. So...... I am beginning to exhale now......

Side note, dual GPU is dead to me in a real world application for gaming. It just continues to be further and further irrelevant. For the 2 x games it works for (eventually), there are 10 x that are now having issues because of it. Unless of course it has the magic interposer that presents just one GPU, THAT would be something interesting.

Let's just hope, it's not going to be another “Slideshow special”, and we actually get to see something concrete. It would be awesome if we got a release date, and something like Ryzen (a tall tale of hype, that ended with a win).

This is all a load of hot air at this point. No evidence VEGA is going to trouble the 1080Ti, yet it won't be much cheaper I am quite sure. 1080s can be had super cheap now, so VEGA needs to be SERIOUSLY competitive if it has the slightest chance succeeding at this stage in the game.

Cybrnook2002Honestly a bit too long, it feels almost still born. With Volta now being announced, Pascal feels as it's already run full circle on the illusive Vega.

Absolutely. Waiting too long has a very negative effect. People just gave up and went for the much successful GTX 1000 series.

I had a vision of Vega getting swallowed by Uranus but it seems it was never close enough, kinda like vaporware, all hot air.

I know I am going to buy a Vega card a year or so after launch. Also glad I'm happy with gaming at 1200p so I don't need the ultimate performance card. A year from now the prices surely will be good, too.

Cybrnook2002Honestly a bit too long, it feels almost still born. With Volta now being announced, Pascal feels as it's already run full circle on the illusive Vega.

I think at this point we just have to remember 2 things:

1) Vega was designed to compete with Volta, not Pascal. This is the first new arch in 6 years from AMD, and it will be utilized for the next 1.5 - 2 years at least.

Vega should beat the 1080 Ti and fight the Titan XP (Or higher). Everything from clockspeeds, arch changes, and die size suggest this card is meant to be a monster. Not saying it will succeed, but that is what it is meant to do - fight Volta.


2) AMD ran out of money in 2015. Considering Pascal is really just a die-shrunk Maxwell refresh, AMD figured they would just throw out dirt-cheap Polaris to stop them from bleeding marketshare while they wait for Vega.

Check AMD's old roadmaps, Polaris was the only thing listed for 2016. A stop-gap till they have money again.

atomicusThis is all a load of hot air at this point. No evidence VEGA is going to trouble the 1080Ti, yet it won't be much cheaper I am quite sure. 1080s can be had super cheap now, so VEGA needs to be SERIOUSLY competitive if it has the slightest chance succeeding at this stage in the game.

What evidence do you have that it won't? It's die size is bigger than the Titan XP, it has HBM2, and it is a complete architectural overhaul.

You would be good to remember that the 290X was a lot smaller than the 780 Ti, and yet managed to wipe the floor with Kepler. Same goes for the 4870, 5870, and to some extent the 6970 as well. In fact Fiji was technically on a smaller die than big Maxwell too.

Now AMD will have a 10-20% bigger die than Nvidia. What do you think that means?

Captain_TomAMD ran out of money in 2015.

Jesus f-ing Christ, not this shit with AMD being broke and being borderling bankrupt for the past xyz years again.
Seriously, stop it. Or go to Wfctech.

OctopussJesus f-ing Christ, not this shit with AMD being broke and being borderling bankrupt for the past xyz years again.
Seriously, stop it. Or go to Wfctech.

Erhhhh what?

What are you suggesting I am saying?

Carefully re-read what I quoted.

OctopussCarefully re-read what I quoted.

And carefully re-read what I said buddy.

Are you suggesting AMD didn't go through hard economic times?

You seem confused and misunderstanding the meaning of words.
I suggest www.wiktionary.com or other similar sites. You need it.

OctopussYou seem confused and misunderstanding the meaning of words.
I suggest www.wiktionary.com or other similar sites. You need it.

I saw you misspell "Borderline", "WCCFTech", and then you bleeped out f*** but not sh*** lol.



If you are trying to joke... It didn't make sense...

Captain_TomAMD ran out of money in 2015.

AMD isn't out of cash. As of the end of Q1 2017 they have 943 million in cash reserves.

ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2268417

From the Financial Results news release:

"Cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities were $943 million at the end of the quarter, down $321 million from the end of the prior quarter primarily due to the timing of sales and cash collections, debt interest payments, and increased inventory."

Ah ok, another one to feed ignore list with. You won at internet, grats.

64KAMD isn't out of cash. As of the end of Q1 2017 they have 943 million in cash reserves.

ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2268417

From the Financial Results news release:

"Cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities were $943 million at the end of the quarter, down $321 million from the end of the prior quarter primarily due to the timing of sales and cash collections, debt interest payments, and increased inventory."

[/QUOTE]

Hey look you can talk, unlike Octopuss who is so smart he doesn't have to explain his broken English to people. Thank you.


That money pales to what Nvidia has though, and please that's 2017. Cards are designed years in advance, their designs are finalized months in advance, and production also takes months.

Polaris was 2016, and it was designed when AMD was out of money. Now they have money... Oh and look: They are about to talk all about Vega 20, Zen 2, and Navi. Not a coincidence.

Burp and another mouthfull of popcorn this ^^spat might get intresting
Please carry on the pair of you

Captain_TomI think at this point we just have to remember 2 things:

Never Forgotten :) How can you forget anything AMD these days, it's bread crumbs are in every headline :)

Captain_Tom1) Vega was designed to compete with Volta, not Pascal. This is the first new arch in 6 years from AMD, and it will be utilized for the next 1.5 - 2 years at least.
Vega should beat the 1080 Ti and fight the Titan XP (Or higher). Everything from clockspeeds, arch changes, and die size suggest this card is meant to be a monster. Not saying it will succeed, but that is what it is meant to do - fight Volta.

No argument from me that AMD has intended this release to be competitive for them.
For the new arch in 6 years , used for 1 - 2 :) Hopefully you're wrong there. If it takes 6 years to design a new architecture, you better use it for 6 years :)
AMD cards have always been "powerful" cards. But whether be it drivers or just implementation, they rarely seem to live up to their potential. Though I do agree with the AMD "fine wine" approach. Even with that, you can only squeeze so much before the juice runs dry.

I have my fingers crossed it does kick ass, that would so cool. However I really wonder that if they have something that competes with Volta, why not wipe the floor with Pascal today with it, and ride the wave into Volta's release. Why hold your hand......... this smells a little off to me.

Captain_Tom2) AMD ran out of money in 2015. Considering Pascal is really just a die-shrunk Maxwell refresh, AMD figured they would just throw out dirt-cheap Polaris to stop them from bleeding marketshare while they wait for Vega.

I will only comment on the die-shrunk Maxwell comment. Technically speaking, Maxwell was a larger die pre-implementaiton of Pascal. Not that other way around.... :)

Anyways, like I said. I REALLY REALLY would love to see AMD release a card that just wipes the floor in the current market. One that is so powerful that they survive two life-cycles from Nvidia, which is what I think we were all expecting now. Not sure how to end my statement without trying to lean one way or the other, other than saying yes, fingers crossed, but not holding my breath anymore. I have mentally moved on........

Delicious. (Not Vega, but the show)

Captain_TomHey look you can talk, unlike Octopuss who is so smart he doesn't have to explain his broken English to people. Thank you.


That money pales to what Nvidia has though, and please that's 2017. Cards are designed years in advance, their designs are finalized months in advance, and production also takes months.

Polaris was 2016, and it was designed when AMD was out of money. Now they have money... Oh and look: They are about to talk all about Vega 20, Zen 2, and Navi. Not a coincidence.

AMD wasn't out of cash in 2015 either.

www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/press-release-2016jan19.aspx

From the Q4 2015 Financial Results news release:

"Cash and cash equivalents were $785 million at the end of the quarter, up $30 million from the end of the prior quarter, primarily due to improved operating cash flow."


Nor in 2016

www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/press-release-2017jan31.aspx

From the Q4 2016 Financial Results news release:

"Cash and cash equivalents were $1.26 billion at the end of the year, up from $785 million at the end of the prior year."

Cybrnook2002Never Forgotten :) How can you forget anything AMD these days, it's bread crumbs are in every headline :)

No argument from me that AMD has intended this release to be competitive for them.
For the new arch in 6 years , used for 1 - 2 :) Hopefully you're wrong there. If it takes 6 years to design a new architecture, you better use it for 6 years :)
AMD cards have always been "powerful" cards. But whether be it drivers or just implementation, they rarely seem to live up to their potential. Though I do agree with the AMD "fine wine" approach. Even with that, you can only squeeze so much before the juice runs dry.

I have my fingers crossed it does kick ass, that would so cool. However I really wonder that if they have something that competes with Volta, why not wipe the floor with Pascal today with it, and ride the wave into Volta's release. Why hold your hand......... this smells a little off to me.

I will only comment on the die-shrunk Maxwell comment. Technically speaking, Maxwell was a larger die pre-implementaiton of Pascal. Not that other way around.... :)

Anyways, like I said. I REALLY REALLY would love to see AMD release a card that just wipes the floor in the current market. One that is so powerful that they survive two life-cycles from Nvidia, which is what I think we were all expecting now. Not sure how to end my statement without trying to lean one way or the other, other than saying yes, fingers crossed, but not holding my breath anymore. I have mentally moved on........

People really need to educate themselves on how important die size is, and how often AMD has had a HUGE perf/mm advantage:


Vega is going to be 500 - 533mm^2. By all means it should be stronger due to its size.

The only thing that imo can really hold them back is if GF is still garbage when it comes to clockspeeds. If AMD can't get above 1400 MHz, then they will only compete with the 1080 Ti, if they get to 1600 MHz they will compete with the Titan XP, and if they hit 1700 MHz they will crush everything in their path.

Having the biggest "unit" on the block does not always win the battle, just saying. (Maybe it's the biggest, half chub unit :), or needs a Viagra to get going, haha.... Childish I know) That's the standard no replacement for displacement argument, which doesn't always hold water.

More heat, more power, and like you are pointing out limited Clock speeds due to previous two items. 1700 would be AWESOME to see on an AMD card, only time will tell. Hell I want's Pascals 2GHZ + on AMD....... Now we're talking.

Anyways, I am tapping out. I said what I wanted to, no need to beat a dead horse :) Anything we talk about is all pure speculation, and free publicity (trending buzz words).

Captain_TomWhat evidence do you have that it won't? It's die size is bigger than the Titan XP, it has HBM2, and it is a complete architectural overhaul.

You would be good to remember that the 290X was a lot smaller than the 780 Ti, and yet managed to wipe the floor with Kepler. Same goes for the 4870, 5870, and to some extent the 6970 as well. In fact Fiji was technically on a smaller die than big Maxwell too.

Now AMD will have a 10-20% bigger die than Nvidia. What do you think that means?

I just know it won't. We're looking at circa 1080 performance, but not 1080Ti, and certainly not big Titan! You can come back here on release and tell me 'I told you so', but I'm more than confident you won't be able to do that. ;)

AMD is seeing the ligght at the end of the tunnel.

1) For many years AMD/ATI leapfrogged Nvidia with smaller process nodes to gain performance advantage with smaller chip sizes. It worked well for the most part.
1a) This ended when process node development stalled. 28nm anyone?
1b) AMD was and still remains tightly tied to a single foundry for financial reasons, even when it hurts them.

2) ATI before AMD bought them was free to do what worked best for graphics, as that WAS their business.
2a) AMD made a point of pushing the ATI team to play ball with integrating and making more modular systems that played better with APU/CPU technology
2b) AMD tied graphics to a single supplier, see 1b.

3) AMD spun off many of the parts of ATI that were becoming more relevant.
3a) Mobile anyone?
3b) My TV has an AMD modulator demodulator, now there are many companies that do this with ARM products that ironically feature ATI tech.
3c) AMD's piss poor direction at first caused a huge problem for them up till recently when they finally took notice they weren't the cock of the walk and the IP they have is as if not more valuable than the chips they make.

All of us know Ryzen isn't a magic bullet, the same that VEGA isn't. Its going to be at least a couple years of strategic actions and planning before AMD is as great as they once were, and unfortunately many new people will continue to play games on the GT240 and 2500 and bash AMD for not having a competitor to Nvidia or Intel that "blows it out of the water", not realizing that the money Nvidia and Intel make isn't so much on high end consumer stuff, but on server and other hardware.