Monday, February 26th 2018

"Lawyering Up" - Coinbase to Send Data on 13,000 Users to the IRS

Coinbase, one of the world's largest cryptoexchanges - which is also one of those with the most solid footing when it comes to these kind of exchange - has announced via email that it will be disclosing around 13,000 users' data to the IRS. No doubt this is a move by the company to improve its footing even more with state institutions; however, this will certainly reduce consumers' trust in the exchange - at least, for those customers who weren't considering having to pay taxes on their crypto earnings.

What prompted this move by Coinbase? Well, back in November 2016, the IRS, through a San Francisco-based judge, started court proceedings which would see all of Coinbase users' data to be delivered to the services. Coinbase fought over these court proceedings, but ultimately caved in after the IRS's proposal changed from "all users" to a system that's likely based on trading volume. This is why "only" 13,000 users will see their personal data (taxpayer ID, name, birth date, address, and historical transaction records for certain higher-transacting customers during the 2013-2015 period) being delivered to the IRS as part of a major tax evasion investigation (which should surprise no one, really).
The affected individuals have been notified via email; Coinbase's statement as to this turn of events? They themselves are "unable to provide legal or tax advice," and thus, tell users that "If you have concerns about this, we encourage you to seek legal advice from an attorney promptly. Coinbase expects to produce the information covered by the court's order within 21 days."
Source: ArsTechnica
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63 Comments on "Lawyering Up" - Coinbase to Send Data on 13,000 Users to the IRS

#26
iO
A nice way to gather potential auditing candidates would be if tax collectors gave the electricity companies a call to ask which customers' power usage went up...
Posted on Reply
#27
R-T-B
iOA nice way to gather potential auditing candidates would be if tax collectors gave the electricity companies a call to ask which customers' power usage went up...
You'd get a ton of pot farms...

...And my energy usage went down when I started mining, due to the retirement of a huge core 2 quad server system the miner is now also doing the work of, so...
Posted on Reply
#28
Space Lynx
Astronaut
windwhirlNo security is unbreakable. The IRS, the NSA, or any other government agency will find a way, or someone else will. And if they have to keep petabytes of data stored for years until the day they find the way to crack Monero's security, they will. They have the resources for that, and when that happens, trust me, they will hunt down every single person (natural or legal) who didn't pay all their taxes. And if not for the taxes, they'll do it because of terrorism.

Well, to be honest, I don't know for how long after the tax evasion occurs the USA govt. can lay charges against a taxpayer for such crime but, in Argentina (which is where I live) the tax office can ask you to pay taxes up to five fiscal years later if you had already been registered as a taxpayer (only if you have a certain amount of wealth, a relatively high yearly income or if you do business that makes money, regardless of whether it's for profit or not) or up to ten years if you have not been registered as a taxpayer. I suppose the US IRS works with similar time frames if not longer.

If terrorism is involved or could be involved, well, they won't stop. Ever.
There are rumors the NSA made Bitcoin and Monero, etc. I guess an employee for the NSA published a paper in 1996 at MIT that laid the ground work for a blockchain exactly like Bitcoin, that paper is still free to read on MIT's website if your curious.
NdMk2o1oReally? I thought it was prevalent on the dark web and other shady sources where one wants to make a transaction that can't be traced back to them personally.

Edit: and not just limited to BC pretty much a lot of cryptocurrencies are attractive because of their anonymous nature.
FBI has raided many many of these black market websites, arresting people by the loads. People can track Bitcoin easy since the block chain is public.
iOA nice way to gather potential auditing candidates would be if tax collectors gave the electricity companies a call to ask which customers' power usage went up...
A lot of people steal electricity from their places of work, so as long as the mining farm is not to big, it would probably go unnoticed. or people mine at University where electricity is free in the dorms, etc. this is why crypto should never have been born, heh. its such a bad business model. I for one am proud of Folding at Home though, at least that is helping humanity.
Posted on Reply
#29
NdMk2o1o
Well the US military also created TOR, so it wouldnt really surprise me if they had laid the foundations for Crypto as well, I mean, lay down a web and sit back and watch the flies trap themselves, nothing is secure or anonymous as far as the web is concerned these days and that's how you should approach anything on the internet.
Posted on Reply
#30
iO
R-T-BYou'd get a ton of pot farms...
Hehe thats true.
But you might be able to identify big mining rigs if the power usage doubled or even tripled since May or November.
Posted on Reply
#31
R-T-B
iOHehe thats true.
But you might be able to identify big mining rigs if the power usage doubled or even tripled since May or November.
Maybe. But I am confident the privacy advocates would come out of the woodwork and prevent it.
Posted on Reply
#32
hat
Enthusiast
I actually looked this up when I did my taxes... but it was kinda overwhelming. Not even sure how I would report any earnings...
Posted on Reply
#33
R-T-B
hatI actually looked this up when I did my taxes... but it was kinda overwhelming. Not even sure how I would report any earnings...
IIRC profit is simply considered capital gains.

That being said I'd reccomend a tax guy.
Posted on Reply
#34
evernessince
lynx29so many surprise IRS penalty fees incoming in the mail, can't ever escape the tax man, this is why Monero coin and not using an exchange ever is the only true path forward to cryptocurrency. otherwise you will never escape the banks and fiat
That's not entirely true. If you are rich you don't have to pay squat. Jeff Bezos said this on social media, all the while wondering to do with his piles of money. If only we all had the credit to buy a yacht, then we could be like the rich and deduct it from out taxes. Make the peasants pay for your 1.2 million dollar luxury.
Posted on Reply
#35
trparky
You know what they say about Al Capone right? The authorities couldn't get him on bootlegging and any of the other nefarious things that he was doing but there was one thing that they were able to pin on him... tax evasion. Say what you will about the IRS but they will always get their money, one way or another; even if that means going to the ends of the Earth to get it. There is no escaping the tax man, he will always get his money.
Posted on Reply
#36
Space Lynx
Astronaut
trparkyYou know what they say about Al Capone right? The authorities couldn't get him on bootlegging and any of the other nefarious things that he was doing but there was one thing that they were able to pin on him... tax evasion. Say what you will about the IRS but they will always get their money, one way or another; even if that means going to the ends of the Earth to get it. There is no escaping the tax man, he will always get his money.
Except for the corporations who leave billions and billions of dollars off shore to evade taxes. Minus those types, yeah I agree. ;p

I think Apple had several hundred billion offshore at one point to avoid taxes, and only recently brought some of them back to the states/banks after Trump's tax plan passed. lol, but yeah I get your point, it just doesn't apply to everyone sadly.
Posted on Reply
#37
hat
Enthusiast
R-T-BIIRC profit is simply considered capital gains.

That being said I'd reccomend a tax guy.
But I didn't "invest" in bitcoin. I bought video cards, then mined on Nicehash and got paid in bitcoin for my services.
Posted on Reply
#38
R-T-B
hatBut I didn't "invest" in bitcoin. I bought video cards, then mined on Nicehash and got paid in bitcoin for my services.
You don't need to invest. If you made a profit, it's still a capital gains tax according to the SEC last I checked in (you can also write off expenses). But I'm not 100% up to date on the latest, so I'd ask a tax pro to be certain.

Nicehash being a "service" may be something different, but I certainly would not count on it.
Posted on Reply
#39
ensabrenoir
..... thought everyone knew that death's first cousin "Taxes" and his wife "IRS" is unescapable. If we started using dandelions for payment.... there's gonna be a few petals collected for taxes.
Posted on Reply
#40
Prima.Vera
I just love it how user on this forum are actually defending the governments taxation of ...well, basically everything.
Posted on Reply
#41
R-T-B
ensabrenoir..... thought everyone knew that death's first cousin "Taxes" and his wife "IRS" is unescapable. If we started using dandelions for payment.... there's gonna be a few petals collected for taxes.
Not quite. There's going to be the dollar (or whatever currency) value of 'dem dandelions in taxes though, for certain.
Posted on Reply
#42
yotano211
evernessinceThat's not entirely true. If you are rich you don't have to pay squat. Jeff Bezos said this on social media, all the while wondering to do with his piles of money. If only we all had the credit to buy a yacht, then we could be like the rich and deduct it from out taxes. Make the peasants pay for your 1.2 million dollar luxury.
You do that that having lots of money doesnt have to do anything with not paying "squat". People have smart people that work for them called accountants. Maybe you should have one someday. And no, the person that does your taxes called "tax preparer" doesnt qualify has a accountant, that is just a person who took a 10 hour class on how to prepare people's tax forms. Accountants go to school for 4+years and have to become a CPA.
I make more than my sister yet pay less than her in overall percent rate because I have a accountant, and I write off what he charges me also.
Posted on Reply
#43
R-T-B
yotano211I make more than my sister yet pay less than her in overall percent rate because I have a accountant, and I write off what he charges me also.
I have a tax guy who my parents introduced me to who is also an accountant, and I can vouch for that. Worth their fee for certain if you are dealing with any kind of income beyond a simple basic one.
Posted on Reply
#44
yotano211
R-T-BI have a tax guy who my parents introduced me to who is also an accountant, and I can vouch for that. Worth their fee for certain if you are dealing with any kind of income beyond a simple basic one.
And good for you, I am sure that accountant is well worth it for you and your parents.
Posted on Reply
#45
lexluthermiester
R-T-BUSA is pretty reasonable on crypto tax (it's considered a capital gains tax), so I pay it.
The question is, when do you pay it and how much do you pay? With crytocoin values fluctuating wildly, how do you establish a taxable value? It should only be taxed when converted into a real currency. Otherwise the IRS can claim one value which could be wildly inaccurate from actual value, which could introduce a huge potential for taxation abuse. This is yet another great reason to regulate cryptocoin.
Posted on Reply
#46
R-T-B
lexluthermiesterThe question is, when do you pay it and how much do you pay?
Your profit margin at cashout. The SEC already declared this pretty clearly, IIRC. I don't have any documents to back it up though which is why I urge consulting a professional.
Posted on Reply
#47
techy1
R-T-BYou'd get a ton of pot farms...

...And my energy usage went down when I started mining, due to the retirement of a huge core 2 quad server system the miner is now also doing the work of, so...
I have not red bigger BS in a while.
Posted on Reply
#48
R-T-B
techy1I have not red bigger BS in a while.
I metered it with some energy meters, and the core 2 quad server drank 600W while the miner with it's Ryzen R3 1200 + platinum rated PSU and Pascal GPUs drinks <500W and is just as good as an NAS while doing it's mining.

It's called multitasking.

It's not much savings, but it's there. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've documented it in several places. It IS possible if well planned.

See my energy consumption article here for readings on my mining rig. I used the same meter on the core 2 quad NAS. it basically came down to the Core 2 quad being before 80PLUS PSUs were a common thing. (That and it's horribly inefficient Fermi-based video card and huge delta electronics blowers probably didn't help).

www.techpowerup.com/240951/confessions-of-a-crypto-miner-efficiency
Posted on Reply
#49
techy1
R-T-BI metered it with some energy meters, and the core 2 quad server drank 600W while the miner with it's Ryzen R3 1200 + platinum rated PSU and Pascal GPUs drinks <500W and is just as good as an NAS while doing it's mining.

It's called multitasking.

It's not much savings, but it's there. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've documented it in several places. It IS possible if well planned.

See my energy consumption article here for readings on my mining rig. I used the same meter on the core 2 quad NAS. it basically came down to the Core 2 quad being before 80PLUS PSUs were a common thing. (That and it's horribly inefficient Fermi-based video card and huge delta electronics blowers probably didn't help).

www.techpowerup.com/240951/confessions-of-a-crypto-miner-efficiency
so you mine with Ryzen R3 1200 only? if answer to that question is "No, but..." = sorry to burst your bubble but you are full of shyte and your statement "And my energy usage went down when I started mining" is a LIE !
Posted on Reply
#50
lexluthermiester
R-T-BYour profit margin at cashout. The SEC already declared this pretty clearly, IIRC. I don't have any documents to back it up though which is why I urge consulting a professional.
If that's true, then it's reasonable and makes sense. Capital gains however seems a bit high for an individual. Filing under 1099c as personal income seems more appropriate taxation.
Posted on Reply
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