SteevoA larger tax base and economy of scale are both things that will help control prices, and increase the standard of living so maybe Detroit wouldn't look like a shithole, and the poor there would benefit.

Or you could replace Detroit with many communities hit hard by manufacturing outsourcing, plus we have the EPA to help ensure the environment they care little for in other countries is not damaged by then use of cheaper chemicals, no recapture or other controls in place to prevent ecological disaster.

But I suppose to some it is wrong to want your own country to succeed in buying products they make for themselves.

I would want nothing else, but that little bit I wrote about the USD value which cannot go down due to being used as reserve currency in many countries assures manufacturing can't come back unless it's artificially subsidized.

... and by doing so sky rocket inflation, which would LOWER the standards of living for everyone.

qubitTrump continues to do his bit to help the American public by making them pay more for their goods, or put another way, making them a little poorer. :)

Correct. The bill from foolish policies like this are always passed to the consumer.

AhhzzActually, I disagree. You would have to retrain staff, unless the division was already processing that hardware. For the ones you mention, like Gigabyte, who make motherboards in TW, but not video cards, it might be slightly easier to relocate personnel, but you'd still have to retool equipment, meaning an increase in cost, meaning an increase in price to the end-users.

Retool what exactly? Some test equipment? Sure, but the production lines are the same. In fact, most of the production lines in Taiwan are more than capable of making graphics cards. It's not rocket science, it's engineering and manufacturing.

TheLostSwedeRetool what exactly? Some test equipment? Sure, but the production lines are the same. In fact, most of the production lines in Taiwan are more than capable of making graphics cards. It's not rocket science, it's engineering and manufacturing.

The building right behind me, as I type, is more than capable.

Mighty-Lu-BuHow is there going to be a price increase if they are moving away from China?

Because it's rather difficult to get a new factory up and running overnight. And few countries have labor costs as low as mainland Chine ... which is exactly why US corporate execs have set up all the factories there.

Mighty-Lu-BuYeah, but it said if they moved to Mexico or Taiwan there wouldn't be any price increases. The price increases right now are because of tariffs imposed by China right?

The US president imposed a 30% US tariff on many goods coming out of mainland China. Strong opposition immediately surfaced about destroying the holiday season economic boon (most XMas holiday shopping centers on gaming consoles, phones, PC components, electronics, TVs, etc) and the potential kickback on the November elections. So the tariffs were dropped to 10% ... after the holidays, they go back to 30 %.

Tariffs have historically been used when a government funnels in money to an industry to gain market share. The Japanese steel industry was, for a time heavily subsidized and the US responded with tariffs and Buy American legislation. It was effective because those products could be made here and unions took major salary scale hits to offset much of the difference also. The US does the same in the dairy industry; American farmers can not compete with Canadian farmers so the US government pays US farmers so that they sell milk to Canadian buyers for less than they sell to American buyers ... .which is necessary to match what Canadian farmers charge.

In this case it's all bluster however as US companies have their factories in mainland China on other low labor cost countries. You can't sell a smartphone or a video card at the same price here when you have to pay a living wage. So when Dell buys a laptop from an ODM in Taiwan who has it's production facilities in mainland china ..... it hits everybody in the chain. To remain competitive, it will be the American worker who loses their jobs and more and more operations will be moved overseas. So while the tariffs "plays on TV" for some ... the net impact for US employment is negative. American executives benefit greatly .... American worker does not as has already been seen as reports have already come in of rising unemployment in tech sector.

Manu_PTPlayStation 5 will be such a hit.. :)

depending on prices I might actually go this route in 2020. i have my eye on a ps4 pro now actually, just waiting for black friday when they go on sale for $299 shipped no tax. :)

qubitTrump continues to do his bit to help the American public by making them pay more for their goods, or put another way, making them a little poorer. :)

not at all true.
this is the reason why he did it>>>> In 2017, the United States had a trade deficit of 566.03 billion U.S. dollars.

these Tariffs will help counter deficit the USA faces, nothing will or can stop this deficit war that is going on except the removal of the deficit, it is understandable that in the process some things will be a bit harder or maybe even in some area's a bit more costly but the end result is going to be the removal of this deficit whether or not anyone likes it or is happy about it. So far it is working for the US and frankly it's about damn time!

I hate politics.

I also want a cheaper 2080ti with freesync.

Just living in my own world over here...

I don't follow politics, so I really don't know the details behind this. But all I see is two men arguing and then regular, everyday folk having to pay the price for it.

R0H1TAs always the "big bad" corporations & their political lackeys :rolleyes:Wait what, the jobs aren't coming back to the US in case you missed it :wtf:

Not yet, and our neighbors to the South if presented with more jobs will have a higher quality of life and stop more illegal immigration and less brain drian through legal immigration as well.

yakkI would want nothing else, but that little bit I wrote about the USD value which cannot go down due to being used as reserve currency in many countries assures manufacturing can't come back unless it's artificially subsidized.

... and by doing so sky rocket inflation, which would LOWER the standards of living for everyone.

Not much different than the coroporate welfare subsided workers at Walmart or other companies, no higher wage jobs than that available means I pay taxes to Walmart, just through the hands of their employees by the form of welfare.

I would rather subsidise high value workers than low value. They will already expect more and generate more local revenue and jobs.

ArbitraryAffectionI don't follow politics, so I really don't know the details behind this. But all I see is two men arguing and then regular, everyday folk having to pay the price for it.

it comes down to if you live in the US and you paid $10 more for something so that US worker can make it as opposed to the dollars leaving for another country that does not help the us at all you're getting a net benefit that helps everyone in the neighborhood that they live in. Schools will end up getting more money because people can afford nicer houses and that raises tax income neighborhoods and businesses will grow and develop there because people will want more things meaning a general increase in the standard of living for all involved.

This is the same reason I don't like to shop at Walmart and instead choose Costco or other local Grocers to buy things at, they contribute to a higher standard of living for everyone in the community that I live in opposed to paying Walmart or another large corporation that then uses shell companies to wash out their dollars so they pay no tax and instead benefit from under paying their workers so that they have to survive off welfare that then gets paid back to Walmart when they buy their food and other items there.

ReadlightChina buy Australia resources, whit worthless money then they seek place to live in Australia while in same time not making new tech (good or bad) who destroys humanity.

I'm not sure where this comment comes from. The Australian economy relies on this 'worthless' money. When China is doing well Australia booms and when there is a downturn in the Chinese economy our economy crashes. Just look at the experience of WA. During the Chinese boom truck drivers were buying $15 dollar beers at all the nicest waterfront pubs and upgrading their cars and boats like crazy.

DRDNAnot at all true.
this is the reason why he did it>>>> In 2017, the United States had a trade deficit of 566.03 billion U.S. dollars.

these Tariffs will help counter deficit the USA faces, nothing will or can stop this deficit war that is going on except the removal of the deficit, it is understandable that in the process some things will be a bit harder or maybe even in some area's a bit more costly but the end result is going to be the removal of this deficit whether or not anyone likes it or is happy about it. So far it is working for the US and frankly it's about damn time!

Hate to break it for you but it's soooooo not working. That trade deficit is just a bit more then "pocket money", compared to US debt.

How long until interest alone is unsustainable? @ the current rate, it won't be that long.

HTCHate to break it for you but it's soooooo not working. That trade deficit is just a bit more then "pocket money", compared to US debt.

How long until interest alone is unsustainable? @ the current rate, it won't be that long.

well dang it I guess that's a good reason to give up an additional 566.03 billion U.S. dollars a year because that will help...jeapers.

SteevoA larger tax base and economy of scale are both things that will help control prices, and increase the standard of living so maybe Detroit wouldn't look like a shithole, and the poor there would benefit.

Or you could replace Detroit with many communities hit hard by manufacturing outsourcing, plus we have the EPA to help ensure the environment they care little for in other countries is not damaged by then use of cheaper chemicals, no recapture or other controls in place to prevent ecological disaster.

But I suppose to some it is wrong to want your own country to succeed in buying products they make for themselves.

Manufacturing outsourcing wasn't the real source of Detroit's problems, it was the racism. Still is and that's not likely to change anytime soon. Rich white people don't care what poor communities of color look like or struggle with. The corporate outsourcing and corporate greed were just the resulting death blows, as was the case for several other Michigan cities.

Haha, suck it, China. There are plenty of other countries that can manufacture electronics and I'm glad the US is playing some hard ball with China. I'm all for free trade, but it works both ways. Hopefully China will see they need the US more than we need them and we can both stop this nonsense and play nice with one another.

timta2Manufacturing outsourcing wasn't the real source of Detroit's problems, it was the racism. Still is and that's not likely to change anytime soon. Rich white people don't care what poor communities of color look like or struggle with. The corporate outsourcing and corporate greed were just the resulting death blows, as was the case for several other Michigan cities.

Wow, somebody liked the Detroit movie. Can you quantify the effects of racism of the economy of Michigan? As in racism cost x percent of unemployment?

DRDNAwell dang it I guess that's a good reason to give up an additional 566.03 billion U.S. dollars a year because that will help...jeapers.

What you don't want to understand/acknowledge is that a lot of that is US tech & US money? How do you suppose Intel/QC/Apple report their earnings or make record $ profits ~ by not making their stuff in China? They'll just make (or assemble) their products in Vietnam, Thailand or Taiwan. So instead of half a trillion dollars worth of trade deficit with China you'll have over $600 billion trade deficit spread over 4 or 5 nations, assuming there isn't a sharp decline in demand for these products.

What you also don't wanna see is that the middle/lower income families become poorer & the greedy corporations continue with their merry way, with this move. If you really want more $ in the hands of the people then tax these megacorps more, not hand them one time tax breaks worth trillions of $ :shadedshu:

I'm all for putting an end to this Chinese experiment, they've gathered far too much power & money that frankly IMO they don't deserve, however the way you're going about it seems counterproductive atm. The people in the US won't get richer if the $ keeps getting accumulated at the top, there is no trickle down Reaganomics.

timta2Manufacturing outsourcing wasn't the real source of Detroit's problems, it was the racism. Still is and that's not likely to change anytime soon. Rich white people don't care what poor communities of color look like or struggle with. The corporate outsourcing and corporate greed were just the resulting death blows, as was the case for several other Michigan cities.

Actually you are 100% wrong. Comeback when you write factual stuff and not garbage

SteevoA larger tax base and economy of scale are both things that will help control prices, and increase the standard of living so maybe Detroit wouldn't look like a shithole, and the poor there would benefit.

Or you could replace Detroit with many communities hit hard by manufacturing outsourcing, plus we have the EPA to help ensure the environment they care little for in other countries is not damaged by then use of cheaper chemicals, no recapture or other controls in place to prevent ecological disaster.

But I suppose to some it is wrong to want your own country to succeed in buying products they make for themselves.

hey now dont pick on Detroit! :D

R0H1TIf you really want more $ in the hands of the people then tax these megacorps more, not hand them one time tax breaks worth trillions of $ :shadedshu:

they did that, 35% cost the US billions of tax dollars and tons of jobs, so no, you are wrong here, thats not the answer.

The rest I can agree with.

TheLostSwedeFairness depends on which side of the fence you stand...

ya and Fairness also depends who you trade with.

DeathtoGnomesthey did that, 35% cost the US billions of tax dollars and tons of jobs, so no, you are wrong here, thats not the answer.

Makes sense. Corporations already do a lot of outsourcing because it's cheaper... so if you just tax them more, they'll find ways to avoid that, too.

DeathtoGnomeshey now dont pick on Detroit! :D


they did that, 35% cost the US billions of tax dollars and tons of jobs, so no, you are wrong here, thats not the answer.

The rest I can agree with.


ya and Fairness also depends who you trade with.

The effective tax rate is much lower I believe, for instance Apple had $252 billion in cash stashed away. They paid about $15 billion in taxes just recently to the EU, or Ireland to be precise. On the other hand how much have they paid to the US taxman? The 35% tax rate may been been a deterrent but that isn't the reason why they went offshore ~ greed (more profits) is the most obvious one with lax regulations (overseas) a close second.

With the one time tax break, how much of it was reinvested back in the US vs the amount spent on share buyback or dividends?

odysseus_ulyssesI'm not sure where this comment comes from. The Australian economy relies on this 'worthless' money. When China is doing well Australia booms and when there is a downturn in the Chinese economy our economy crashes. Just look at the experience of WA. During the Chinese boom truck drivers were buying $15 dollar beers at all the nicest waterfront pubs and upgrading their cars and boats like crazy.

i just watching lots of news about money and corruption in the world now.

People who really think Trump's little trade war will have a positive net effect on the living standards in the US, have not been paying attention a whole lot the past few decades. Detroit is named as an example of how great US manufacturing can be... or in fact how it isn't and will never actually be sustainable? That reality doesn't change with some trade tariffs. As for quality of work... Detroit again: US cars really aren't and weren't feats of engineering or very good quality whatsoever. Another part of the reason that whole economy collapsed. At best, US workers do the same work, but they've never really done anything better or shown to excel at manufacturing. Let alone efficient manufacturing.

US minimum wage has not been going up all that much *despite* economical growth, and there are barely any mechanisms in place to funnel the additional income to the working class (or low / mid income groups) anyway. All that profit goes right back into the pockets of the same establishment Trump states he is so much against... but is in fact a part of.

In the land of the blind... Trump voters seem to be oblivious to the fact that power corrupts and that the immense inequality in wealth and the complete lack of good social security will always preserve the status quo and are completely counterproductive to any kind of policy that brings more money to the country. Additional income only serves to preserve a failing economy and the US needs it because debt is soaring. There is simply no other place for all that cash to go other than into the pockets of the wealthy. The entire tax system is geared to it, and ironically, Trump is just another president that seeks to continue a long history of deregulation and tax cuts that benefit the top incomes. And when it comes to spending of the government itself, the US public seems content that a massive percentage goes straight into warfare and Defense budgets rather than domestic living standards. Gotta keep them guns blazin'

So much for not being a typical politician and being anti-establishment. Apparently a few silly Twitter messages don't really do the trick after all, but hey, they're nice soundbites and good TV. I remember the Roman Emperor's advisors line in the movie Gladiator: 'You will give them death, and they will love you for it'. 2000 years later and the masses still fall for it. Amazing.

R0H1TThe effective tax rate is much lower I believe, for instance Apple had $252 billion in cash stashed away. They paid about $15 billion in taxes just recently to the EU, or Ireland to be precise. On the other hand how much have they paid to the US taxman? The 35% tax rate may been been a deterrent but that isn't the reason why they went offshore ~ greed (more profits) is the most obvious one with lax regulations (overseas) a close second.

With the one time tax break, how much of it was reinvested back in the US vs the amount spent on share buyback or dividends?

I think the corporate tax rate is 20% or in the twenties now

qubitTrump continues to do his bit to help the American public by making them pay more for their goods, or put another way, making them a little poorer. :)

Better that he makes them a bit poorer now to stop the Chinese from making them a LOT poorer in the future.
Putting your head in the sand and ignoring your enemies is not a smart strategy. (The enemy being the Chinese dictatorship)

ArchStupidBetter that he makes them a bit poorer now to stop the Chinese from making them a LOT poorer in the future.
Putting your head in the sand and ignoring your enemies is not a smart strategy. (The enemy being the Chinese dictatorship)

You mean the 2025 goal with all the brazenly stolen IP? Yeah... Frankly still can't believe that was announced publicly.