laszlovalid to the point when you can't install other os; in the past we had certain laptops locked to support specific os version... in don't know if those producers are doing the same now but if yes than for sure M$ has a lot to do with that...

i had a personal experience with one locked to win8 .... and couldn't found a solution to change os...

That's on the manufacturer of the laptop, not MS. They only way they could pull that off would be to enable secure boot and then remove the option to turn it off from the BIOS. But that's not Microsoft's fault.

ratirtNever said they are not. But the problem with installing other OS software on certain laptops is not due to Windows OS. Maybe I didn't make my point clear here. Laptops are computers and can be counted as they are contributing to the 900Mil Windows users but windows has nothing to do with blocking other software from being installed. That was my point. The laptop vendors do it due to their agreement or other things.

It isn't due to any agreements. They just do it so they don't have to deal with the support calls from the other OSes. They don't want to have to waste money supporting hardware running software they didn't put on it.

Just like Intel and AMD both don't want to support older OSes that almost no one uses with their new hardware. This isn't a Microsoft limitation, it's the hardware vendors' limitation.

I despise Windows 10 but as others have said, there really isn't competition these days. I can't be the sort of passive consumer who is happy about being force-fed, spied upon, etc.

Apple has gone off the rails with its obsession with breaking backward compatibility and the OS is just as packed-full of spyware as 10 is. The butterfly Macbook Pro keyboard is awful. I have lost patience with the charging of ridiculous prices for RAM and SSDs.

Linux is missing key software support.

It's a sad time in computing. Duopolies reign in tech and that's not much different than monopoly.

newtekie1It isn't due to any agreements. They just do it so they don't have to deal with the support calls from the other OSes. They don't want to have to waste money supporting hardware running software they didn't put on it.

Just like Intel and AMD both don't want to support older OSes that almost no one uses with their new hardware. This isn't a Microsoft limitation, it's the hardware vendors' limitation.

You didn't get it right. The issue is that some of the vendors are blocking other OSes from being installed on their machines aside or swap currently installed windows with something else. You dont get calls to laptop vendors' support because windows or other OS is not working. Are you crazy? Windows support deals with this not laptop vendor. They only provide hardware with OS and yes they do have agreements with MS because it is better for them to sell a laptop with OS installed already. it is also cheaper to get a bulk of windows licenses instead.

Assimilation is inevitable.

BorgOvermindAssimilation is inevitable.

And has already started :laugh: on a serious note though I was doped into adopting Windows 10 early because of the promise of multi GPU support for any card. It is obvious that will not be happening anytime soon but the thought of using something like a 5700XT for most of the requirements to run the game and then use a 2060 for ray tracing only. Just like how you used to be able to use an Nvidia card just to do Physx on AMD systems.

And loots off bugs, complicated in it Linux haw no problems who haw windows.

Plenty of "winblows 10 is terrible, ITS LIMUX FOR ME!!11!!!" comments, as predictable.

Guys, you said the SAME thing when XP went out of support. Some of you were saying the same thing when 98se was put of life support and XP was first released.

You'll upgrade to 10 eventually. You'll try linux, use it for a few months, find something that you want that doesnt run on linux, and come back. And we'll be hearing the same things when windows 11 comes out in 2029 and people scream "Winblows11 SUCKS, once 10 is out of support IM GOING TO LINUX".

ratirtYou didn't get it right.

Yes I did.

ratirtThe issue is that some of the vendors are blocking other OSes from being installed on their machines aside or swap currently installed windows with something else.

Correct. I completely understand the issue. I also understand how they do it, and why. It has nothing to do with Microsoft.

ratirtYou dont get calls to laptop vendors' support because windows or other OS is not working.

Yes, the laptop(and desktop) venders get the support calls as per the OEM agreement on Microsoft's software, the OEM of the computer that installs Windows is responsible for the tech support for the software and hardware. Microsoft does not even have a support system in place for people using OEM software.

ratirtThey only provide hardware with OS and yes they do have agreements with MS because it is better for them to sell a laptop with OS installed already. it is also cheaper to get a bulk of windows licenses instead.

Those aren't the agreements we are talking about. My statement was that there was no agreement with Microsoft to lock the hardware to only work with Windows 10(or any other version of Windows). Obviously there are sales agreements.

The hardware vendors would, and can, choose to lock their hardware to only work with Windows because they have to field the support calls. When someone tries to install Linux on their HP laptop that originally came with Windows and something stops working correctly, Microsoft isn't getting the calls, HP is. If calls HP because the sound stops working and the laptop has a different OS from what came on it, HP is in a bad position to try to support why sound isn't working. Is something in the OS, is it a hardware issue, did the user pour water down the back of it? It makes HP's job of support harder. And that's why they might choose to lock their computers to only allowing Windows using UEFI's secureboot.

On the other hand, you have AMD and Intel only releasing drivers for Windows 10. Again, this is a cost saving tactic. Why spend money developing and supporting drivers for older OSes that will only see a very small fraction of people using with the new hardware? Despite what we in the forum like to believe, the enthusiast market is very small. And really the only people still building new machines and putting Windows 7 on them are a small percentage of the enthusiasts. I'd say a good 99% of new built computers are loaded with Windows 10, a good 90% without even hesitation. So why would AMD/Intel waste money on driver development and support to make 1% of the market happy?

newtekie1When someone tries to install Linux on their HP laptop that originally came with Windows and something stops working correctly, Microsoft isn't getting the calls, HP is

You have recovery procedure to get windows back on each laptop and that is how the support works. They will tell you recover your OS. If the computer has a windows installed and somebody decides to install Linux on it he is responsible for the system to work properly. If something goes wrong HP can refuse to fix it because you have changed the OS to a different one. They will tell you to contact Linux support and ask them why it doesn't work.

newtekie1On the other hand, you have AMD and Intel only releasing drivers for Windows 10. Again, this is a cost saving tactic. Why spend money developing and supporting drivers for older OSes that will only see a very small fraction of people using with the new hardware? Despite what we in the forum like to believe, the enthusiast market is very small. And really the only people still building new machines and putting Windows 7 on them are a small percentage of the enthusiasts. I'd say a good 99% of new built computers are loaded with Windows 10, a good 90% without even hesitation. So why would AMD/Intel waste money on driver development and support to make 1% of the market happy?

That's a different story with the desktops. Intel and AMD have drivers for Linux. Why would you say they dont? I get the saving cost part but still you have drivers for Linux for AMD and Intel.

potato580+note that microsoft actually forced you to used (only)win10 on current device..it seems we dont have a other choice...

ok ... not true ... when the free upgrade program was on, i switched to win 10 from 8.1 (and i was a die hard W7 before 8.1 changed my mind ) during a time set (i don't remember the duration, but it was long enough to be able to like or dislike W10 and do it ) there was an option to "revert" the upgrade, if i didn't like it, if it's forced, you are not given that option.

kapone32There is one thing that WIndows 10 does better than any previous version of Windows. Attach the licence to your MB. I also look at the fact that legitimate keys have been readily available for less than $20 ever since it launched (well after the free upgrade period was over).

well my current Win 10 license is at her 3rd dirty swap, technically 4th but since it was same manufacturer for the last one i don't really count it (1mb-AMD,FX-6300/1mb-Intel,Z97,i5-4690k /2mb-Intel,i5-6600k,z170,Gaming 5 and 7)

i got a few W7 for 5-10$ till today, one of them is on my mother computer ... she tried W10 on my laptop at a time and she liked it better than 7 (way easier for her) well a less than 20$ would be welcome but i am not sure because of the configuration :laugh: (a Athlon 5350 8gb RAM and a GT730 which works fine for her web browsing and her light games)

i

GreiverBladeok ... not true ... when the free upgrade program was on, i switched to win 10 from 8.1 (and i was a die hard W7 before 8.1 changed my mind ) during a time set (i don't remember the duration, but it was long enough to be able to like or dislike W10 and do it ) there was an option to "revert" the upgrade, if i didn't like it, if it's forced, you are not given that option.


my current Win 10 license is at her 3rd dirty swap, technically 4th but since it was same manufacturer for the last one i don't really count it (1mb-AMD,FX-6300/1mb-Intel,Z97,i5-4690k /2mb-Intel,i5-6600k,z170,Gaming 5 and 7)

i got a few W7 for 5-10$ till today, one of them is on my mother computer ... she tried W10 on my laptop at a time and she liked it better than 7 (way easier for her) well a less than 20$ would be welcome but i am not sure because of the configuration :laugh: (a Athlon 5350 8gb RAM and a GT730 which works fine for her web browsing and her light games)

well good for you, as for me the problems my device cant revert back to window 7, even window 8, cant even fresh install, mostly 2019 mobo only window10 i guess, if microsoft rly do care abt costumer, it would be great to include acpi support:), they were busy to promote win10, well it doesnt rly matter tho, ive spare of oldschool motherboard and stick with window 7:)

64KMicrosoft has no excuse for not testing their updates for quality. Last year they had sales of 110 billion dollars and a gross margin of 72 billion dollars.

www.microsoft.com/en-us/annualreports/ar2018/annualreport

Well part of that profit is due to the QA dept being shown the door a couple years ago. How dare you try to diminish their profit margin! :laugh: