Saturday, May 23rd 2020

AMD "Matisse Refresh" Processor SKUs Include 3900XT, 3800XT, and 3600XT

May 23rd, 2020 00:35 Discuss (120 Comments)

Rumors of AMD refreshing its 3rd generation Ryzen desktop processor family are growing louder. On Friday (22/05), reports of the "Matisse Refresh" processor family surfaced, with talk of "Ryzen 7 3850X" and "Ryzen 7 3750X" processors headed for a June 2020 announcement followed by July availability. Turns out AMD has a different naming scheme in mind, targeted at wooing gamers. The company is reportedly bringing its "XT" brand extension over from its Radeon graphics card family over to the Ryzen line.

There are three SKUs AMD is developing, the Ryzen 9 3900XT, the Ryzen 7 3800XT, and the Ryzen 5 3600 XT. All three are likely to retain core counts of the SKUs they are displacing from current price points - with the 3900XT likely being a 12-core/24-thread part; the 3800XT an 8-core/16-thread part, and the 3600XT a 6-core/12-thread part. AMD is likely to give the three a major clock speed increase to shore up gaming performance. It won't surprise us if AMD tinkers with boost algorithms, either. GIGABYTE has already referenced "Matisse Refresh" in its motherboard product roadmaps, which adds plenty of credibilty to this rumor. With "Zen 3" based 4th gen Ryzen processors unlikely to relieve the embattled 3900X, 3800X, and 3600X in the wake of Intel's 10th gen Core "Comet Lake" launch until Q4-2020, it makes sense for AMD to plan a product stack refresh to bolster its competitiveness. AMD is reportedly planning a June 16 product announcement, followed by July 7 availability.

Sources: WCCFTech, via VideoCardz

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120 Comments on AMD "Matisse Refresh" Processor SKUs Include 3900XT, 3800XT, and 3600XT

#51

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

I just want a whole range of CPUs from 35W to 125W, so i can pick what i want.

ITX build with a super efficient 8 core? yes pls.

#52

Space Lynx

Astronaut

TheLostSwedeAnd you know they're going to release something in three months? The announcement is supposed to be in September, but how many months after that until availability?

Confirmed by who? Not AMD for sure. It's a rumour so far. And announcement vs release is two different things. Last time it took what, three months from the announcement to launch?

But B550 is going to be available next month, so that last part doesn't add up.

well Ampere is confirmed for september and i want to play cyberpunk 2077 on launch day, so if amd dosnt have rdna 2 too bad for them. i will buy ampere. i am sure a lot of people feel the same way as me, cyberpunk 2077 maxed out is number 1, don't care which card it is.

#53

Camm

MusselsI just want a whole range of CPUs from 35W to 125W, so i can pick what i want.

ITX build with a super efficient 8 core? yes pls.

Honestly, I want availability of the Pro line of CPU's for home server builds, preferably in power efficient packages. Integrated LOM on those would be awesome.

#54

GeorgeMan

FlankerIn a couple year's time the 5700XT could mean both a GPU and CPU

Fyi I LOL'd so much on this post. :D

#55

BoboOOZ

Darmok N JaladWhat if it’s not “XT” like from the GPU segment, but that they are adding a “T” classification to their chips to match Comet Lake? That is, these will all be 35W grade CPUs. It would make sense in that it would fill in a gap where AMD does not have a direct product match to Intel. AMD could have been saving up bins all this time to get there. We already know this architecture can be very fast and efficient on mobile.

That is an interesting idea. I would be surprised if it were true, though, because AMD strategy is to attack all the segments of the market, but progressively, starting with the larger volumes first. Since they chose not to attack the high-efficiency laptop segment yet (the one with 5-10w TDP), although from the results of the 4000 lineup it's obvious they could be very competitive technically, I do not think they will attack the desktop one, which has lower volume.

#56

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator

MusselsITX build with a super efficient 8 core? yes pls.

Just take a 3700X and cap its TDP in the BIOS?

#57

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

btarunrJust take a 3700X and cap its TDP in the BIOS?

thats the plan if nothing better is released before then

#58

ValenOne

XuperWhy Can't CPU stay stable at 4.6ghz for sustained speed ?on all cores , they can only stay at 4.3ghz.

My Ryzen 9 3900X has ~4.375 Ghz sustained for all CPU cores with ~1.331V and it was close to passing 4.4 Ghz. I could try +1.35V to +1.4V for 4.4 Ghz.

The stress test includes AVX 2.

#59

Unregistered

phanbueyif it's cheaper and faster maybe, but why bother to get one now if you're they're gonna release a faster chip in 3 months.

If you want a pc asap I suppose it's better than buying a cpu and then upgrading a few months later.

Mostly I'm interested in these because when ryzen 4000 7nm+ is released for desktop, there should be a small window where these (or normal ryzen 3000) should be really cheap!

#60

InVasMani

FlankerIn a couple year's time the 5700XT could mean both a GPU and CPU

This type of thing I've been speculating about the last week or two on TPU in a forum thread or two. The way I see it with the Radeon Pro's infinity fabric is AMD quite interesting direct response to NVLink in a sense. More than that I think AMD could be gearing up for the possibility of discrete PCIe APU cards that infinity link together possibly up to 4 cards especially depending on the platform AM4/TR/Epyc. AMD could have different CPU/GPU chiplet's and could essentially mix and match them to meet customers needs to taste and irrelevant of platform at the same time. It even opens up the pathway of a kind of Intel like tick tock model for upgrading your system between socketed CPU and MB and the PCIe add in cards. Now I guess you've got that to a point now already, but just imagine how much better you could extend your current PC if your discrete GPU had a CPU chiplet handy onboard!?

I like the idea of even just buying a GPU focused card with a single CPU CCX, but modular with the infinity fabric to link together with another card that's a inverse mirror design of it that adds a bunch of CPU CCX's with a single additional GPU CCX. You could also have a clone of the same type that works in parallel. Still that offers you complete flexibility in a great way.

#61

ValenOne

macrobeThis refresh is compensation to "x470" owners for the lack of ryzen 4000 series compatibility.

This refresh could be a compensation to B350 and X370 owners for the lack of Zen 3 compatibility.

AMD plans to release Zen 3's "beta" BIOS updates for B450 and X470.

#62

RandallFlagg

As AMD continues to release new models and variations on Ryzen 2 (3000 series on desktop, and Renoir 4000 series on laptops), I think it calls into question if we are actually going to see Ryzen 3 this year.

Releasing refreshed "Ryzen 2" mere months before the purported release of Ryzen 3 calls that into question. If Ryzen 3 is coming, they should be clearing the supply chain of older models, not stacking it up with new variations. Reading between the lines, I think this means Ryzen 3 release will either be very sparse on SKUs and availability in 2020, or will be delayed into 2021 for some reason which isn't yet stated.

#63

Darmok N Jalad

InVasManiThis type of thing I've been speculating about the last week or two on TPU in a forum thread or two. The way I see it with the Radeon Pro's infinity fabric is AMD quite interesting direct response to NVLink in a sense. More than that I think AMD could be gearing up for the possibility of discrete PCIe APU cards that infinity link together possibly up to 4 cards especially depending on the platform AM4/TR/Epyc. AMD could have different CPU/GPU chiplet's and could essentially mix and match them to meet customers needs to taste and irrelevant of platform at the same time. It even opens up the pathway of a kind of Intel like tick tock model for upgrading your system between socketed CPU and MB and the PCIe add in cards. Now I guess you've got that to a point now already, but just imagine how much better you could extend your current PC if your discrete GPU had a CPU chiplet handy onboard!?

I like the idea of even just buying a GPU focused card with a single CPU CCX, but modular with the infinity fabric to link together with another card that's a inverse mirror design of it that adds a bunch of CPU CCX's with a single additional GPU CCX. You could also have a clone of the same type that works in parallel. Still that offers you complete flexibility in a great way.

I think the OP was just talking about them having the same names, not married on a substrate. Still what you talk about has been done at least once, with the Vega Pro II in the new Mac Pro. It’s 2 Vega chips connected through IF. I’m curious if we will ever see something like what you mention in something other than a highly specialized application. Even the next gen consoles appear to be one piece of silicon.

#64

medi01

btarunrMy expectations:
400-700 MHz speed bumps
Mothballed AMD XFR tech could be revived. With the right coolers the XT chips could hit/cross 5 GHz, but AMD will be careful not to write "5 GHz" on its specs sheet
XFR and Intel TVB are similar in what they do (short-burst opportunistic auto-overclocking dictated by cooling)
Possible PBO revival

What are your thoughts on the reasons for AMD to bump 3xxx series, while so close to Zen3 release?

#65

AnarchoPrimitiv

TigeronStarfireThese are potentially tempting! I have a first gen Ryzen 7 1700 and was thinking of upgrading my CPU. I figured I'd hold off until AM5, and I still may, but knowing I could also use these in my B350 board is nice.

Just out of curiosity, because I'm always curious when people do this, why did you pair a 1700 with a B350 board? The original MSRP on the 1700 was $329 (assuming you bought it at that price), so how is it that someone has $330 for a CPU but not $150 for an X370 board? Likewise, I'm always curious when I see a 3900x or 3950x with a B450 board... How could someone have $500-$750 for a CPU, and then only $120 for the motherboard? I'd always wonder the same think when I'd see, for example, a 9900k with a 1060...or when people paired an X299 board with an i5-7640x... Im not trying to be a snob and ask "why don't you have more money, I'm not wealthy," well off" or anything like that by any stretch of the imagination, I'm asking what are the reasons behind utilizing what would typically be described as not a recommended pairing

#66

BoboOOZ

Come on guys, get serious, you won't see 700MHz clock increase, there is not anywhere near enough leeway in the silicon for that. 300MHz would be great, but 200 is more likely.

#67

AnarchoPrimitiv

lynx29well Ampere is confirmed for september and i want to play cyberpunk 2077 on launch day, so if amd dosnt have rdna 2 too bad for them. i will buy ampere. i am sure a lot of people feel the same way as me, cyberpunk 2077 maxed out is number 1, don't care which card it is.

I disagree with that completely... Although most people and therefore, most consumers, are idiots, I find it difficult to believe that some of them would take the huge risk of spending hundreds of dollars on a GPU before they see what the competition has to offer all to start playing a $60 game a little bit earlier (and what is so important about playing this game a little bit earlier when you've already been waiting months and years) ... Thats ridiculous

#68

Sunny and 75

btarunr400-700 MHz speed bumps

I hope that is indeed the case!

#69

AnarchoPrimitiv

BoboOOZCome on guys, get serious, you won't see 700MHz clock increase, there is not anywhere near enough leeway in the silicon for that. 300MHz would be great, but 200 is more likely.

Would 200mhz really warrant a new release? Are these refreshed chips being manufactured on the same 7nm process as the original 3000 chips or an improved one? If it's a n improclved one it could definitely be higher than 200mhz... Or perhaps, based on the power consumption of Intel's 10th gen, maybe AMD will up the TDP on the refresh chips to get higher frequencies thinking that, well if Intel fans say they "don't care about power consumption" then they have no reason not to choose our refresh chips when they come out". (although, if you know fanboys and the in/out group psychology and social identity theory psychology behind their behavior, then you know that all the seeming reasonable arguments they give for their fanboy choices arent the real reasons, but instead are pretext used to justify their irrational loyalty to a brand)

#70

BoboOOZ

AnarchoPrimitivWould 200mhz really warrant a new release? Are these refreshed chips being manufactured on the same 7nm process as the original 3000 chips or an improved one? If it's a n improclved one it could definitely be higher than 200mhz... Or perhaps, based on the power consumption of Intel's 10th gen, maybe AMD will up the TDP on the refresh chips to get higher frequencies thinking that, well if Intel fans say they "don't care about power consumption" then they have no reason not to choose our refresh chips when they come out". (although, if you know fanboys and the in/out group psychology and social identity theory psychology behind their behavior, then you know that all the seeming reasonable arguments they give for their fanboy choices arent the real reasons, but instead are pretext used to justify their irrational loyalty to a brand)

Of course if does, the difference between 3600 x and non-x is 200MHz, while the difference between 3700x and the 3800x is only 100MHz.
And 300MHz is no slouch, at that point, the 3800X would boast the same gaming performance with the intel flagship.

#71

midnightoil

btarunr3600X/3800X/3900X with 200-300 MHz increase would still be slower than Intel at gaming, making this a pointless launch. I have a hunch that AMD decided to raise TDP to 125 W and somehow scrape +700 MHz (or some kind of boost clock spread and sustainability tech). Intel lowered the bar on efficiency with 10th gen, so I'm sure AMD would gladly relax efficiency for clocks.

XT is a declaration of intent. This is a gaming-performance focused refresh.

I expect you sometimes wonder why this site, and you particularly are not taken more seriously by the rest of the tech community. Wonder no more.

You're either trolling, or actually believe that 1-2 core boost could hit 5.4-5.5Ghz. Not sure which is worse. This is exceedingly unlikely to happen on N7P, let alone N7, and would be pretty fanciful for even the bespoke 5nm EUV node TSMC are doing for AMD's 2021 and onwards products.

You compound it by apparently totally failing to grasp the value the launch has for AMD.

FWIW, if these are marketed to overclockers, I suspect they'll come with a guarantee to hit 1900Mhz FCLK, plus modest core clock increase.

#72

InVasMani

Darmok N JaladI think the OP was just talking about them having the same names, not married on a substrate. Still what you talk about has been done at least once, with the Vega Pro II in the new Mac Pro. It’s 2 Vega chips connected through IF. I’m curious if we will ever see something like what you mention in something other than a highly specialized application. Even the next gen consoles appear to be one piece of silicon.

Yeah the infinity fabric has been done before in the new Mac Pro's and the new Radeon Pro's that were recently announced. The CPU CCX's on a discrete PCIe style APU SoC card though is something a bit different entirely that AMD could explore doing. Basically they could potentially have something akin to a 3200G in the form of a PCIe card in place of a socketed CPU on a motherboard going further they make a affinity link bridge between 2-4 of them in a system to expand their capability further. They could also just be straight up discrete PCIe CPU add in cards. I'm looking at it from the narrative of AMD could start offering some unique selling points on their PCIe cards that have traditionally be geared towards GPU's, but could have them shift directions or a hybrid between the two and it could be more heavily CPU or GPU in design nature. It's a really cool thing to think about the possibility of it. I mean put a M.2 and LPDDR4 slot on the back and you've got a cache accelerated discrete PCIe card you could drop into a PCIe x4 or x8 slot for example and it wouldn't waste system memory or CPU resources it could use all it's own hardware resources while offering very appreciative storage acceleration in the process. That's on top of also being able to compress/decompress the contents of it and/or encrypt them.

#73

ShurikN

BoboOOZCome on guys, get serious, you won't see 700MHz clock increase, there is not anywhere near enough leeway in the silicon for that. 300MHz would be great, but 200 is more likely.

200MHz on an all core boost would be insane. Current chips top out at 4.2-4.3. Hopefully it's that and not a single core, 2 second, ultra lightweight load boost...

#74

Assimilator

I honestly don't see the point of these chips, unless it's to piss off people who already bought the -X SKUs. Comet Lake is more competitive, yes, but not by so much that Zen 2 is in trouble.

btarunrembattled 3900X, 3800X, and 3600X

They weren't embattled before and they sure as hell ain't now.

EzioAsI'm pretty sure I just read recently AMD said that Zen 3 is on track.

And Intel has been telling us 10nm is on track for how many years now?

EzioAsSome of you act like CPU refreshes like this is new.

No we aren't. What we are doing is asking very pertinent questions as to why this particular refresh even needs to exist, if Zen 3 is supposedly just around the corner.

#75

thesmokingman

What is interesting is that all three CPUs will feature higher clock speeds & enhanced overclock support. Our sources also suggest that the boost algorithms for the new CPUs are more tightly tuned which should result in 5-10% performance improvement over existing parts.

From the original source. And yet this thread gets started off on crazy talk of 700mhz increase? :roll:

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AMD "Matisse Refresh" Processor SKUs Include 3900XT, 3800XT, and 3600XT

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