Saturday, May 23rd 2020

AMD "Matisse Refresh" Processor SKUs Include 3900XT, 3800XT, and 3600XT

May 23rd, 2020 00:35 Discuss (120 Comments)

Rumors of AMD refreshing its 3rd generation Ryzen desktop processor family are growing louder. On Friday (22/05), reports of the "Matisse Refresh" processor family surfaced, with talk of "Ryzen 7 3850X" and "Ryzen 7 3750X" processors headed for a June 2020 announcement followed by July availability. Turns out AMD has a different naming scheme in mind, targeted at wooing gamers. The company is reportedly bringing its "XT" brand extension over from its Radeon graphics card family over to the Ryzen line.

There are three SKUs AMD is developing, the Ryzen 9 3900XT, the Ryzen 7 3800XT, and the Ryzen 5 3600 XT. All three are likely to retain core counts of the SKUs they are displacing from current price points - with the 3900XT likely being a 12-core/24-thread part; the 3800XT an 8-core/16-thread part, and the 3600XT a 6-core/12-thread part. AMD is likely to give the three a major clock speed increase to shore up gaming performance. It won't surprise us if AMD tinkers with boost algorithms, either. GIGABYTE has already referenced "Matisse Refresh" in its motherboard product roadmaps, which adds plenty of credibilty to this rumor. With "Zen 3" based 4th gen Ryzen processors unlikely to relieve the embattled 3900X, 3800X, and 3600X in the wake of Intel's 10th gen Core "Comet Lake" launch until Q4-2020, it makes sense for AMD to plan a product stack refresh to bolster its competitiveness. AMD is reportedly planning a June 16 product announcement, followed by July 7 availability.

Sources: WCCFTech, via VideoCardz

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120 Comments on AMD "Matisse Refresh" Processor SKUs Include 3900XT, 3800XT, and 3600XT

#26

EzioAs

ARFI associate refreshes with weakness and lack of any new compelling products based on a new architecture. They could try to pull Zen 3 forward then and cancel this circus.

I think what they're looking for is to have more market share with the 3900X price reduction and this refresh. They don't want to let Intel climb back up while they have the momentum

#27

Shatun_Bear

This is strange. If they add 100 or even 200mhz to the boost clocks of these SKUs, it means the R9 3900XT will land at 4.8Ghz.

So this would mean the 4900 would need to match that boost, which is quite a lofty target if it includes +10% IPC on top. Otherwise it would be very strange releasing 4000 CPUs with lower boost clocks than these 3 months later.

#28

efikkan

Refreshes are normal both in the CPU and GPU markets. Even though it might not change the market a whole lot, it will at least give the maker a news cycle and probably some reviews. Sometimes prices are adjusted too, so I don't see this as a problem; people get a little better value throughout a generation.

But it does makes me wonder if Zen 3 is on track or not.

#29

Vya Domus

ARFI associate refreshes with weakness and lack of any new compelling products based on a new architecture.

Oh boy, do I have a company for you :

#30

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator

Vya DomusNo way, that's way outside the optimal power/frequency curve of current 7nm Zen chips. 200-300 Mhz is way more realistic (for base clocks that is) and as far as boost clocks 100-200 is the best you can expect.

3600X/3800X/3900X with 200-300 MHz increase would still be slower than Intel at gaming, making this a pointless launch. I have a hunch that AMD decided to raise TDP to 125 W and somehow scrape +700 MHz (or some kind of boost clock spread and sustainability tech). Intel lowered the bar on efficiency with 10th gen, so I'm sure AMD would gladly relax efficiency for clocks.

XT is a declaration of intent. This is a gaming-performance focused refresh.

#31

watzupken

Personally, I find this move to introduce a refresh this late to be largely redundant. In all round performance, AMD still holds a good advantage. In games where Intel's high clockspeed excels, the extra 100 to 200Mhz is likely not going to drastically change the landscape. Instead if they want to retain an advantage, they could have lower the prices slightly across their entire product range. This should also help them to clear down their inventory for the introduction of Ryzen 4xxx closer to the end of the year. Intel's got not other ace in their sleeve unless they react by drastically cutting prices. While the current Comet Lake is cheapr than before, the overall cost to get a high end Comet Lake system remains high due to the need to get a Z490 series board, and a high end cooling solution.

ARFI associate refreshes with weakness and lack of any new compelling products based on a new architecture. They could try to pull Zen 3 forward then and cancel this circus.

I think this is very apt for Intel considering they have refreshed their Skylake for 4 more generations after. In the case of AMD, I think there are plenty of reviews out there to showcase its performance vs Comet Lake. From a gaming standpoint, yes it still lags behind somewhat when you game at 1080p. In other areas, AMD either held their ground, or trashed Intel. As to why they are refreshing their Zen 2 CPUs, I am not too sure. I suspect it may be something to do with Zen 3 coming out later this year instead of mid this year. But I don't deny that this is a meaningless refresh from my perspective.

#32

Vya Domus

btarunr3600X/3800X/3900X with 200-300 MHz increase would still be slower than Intel at gaming, making this a pointless launch.

I don't think it matters and it should be clear to anyone that it doesn't matter. AMD has been consistently below Intel in this regard and yet here we are almost 4 generations later and their market share keeps on growing. People have learnt that pursuing the highest possible performance in one type of workload at the expense of everything else (power, cooling, cost) isn't worth it. This refresh will probably improve the performance/price ratio even further.

#33

Space Lynx

Astronaut

btarunr3600X/3800X/3900X with 200-300 MHz increase would still be slower than Intel at gaming, making this a pointless launch. I have a hunch that AMD decided to raise TDP to 125 W and somehow scrape +700 MHz (or some kind of boost clock spread and sustainability tech). Intel lowered the bar on efficiency with 10th gen, so I'm sure AMD would gladly relax efficiency for clocks.

XT is a declaration of intent. This is a gaming-performance focused refresh.

I really hope this is indeed the case, that would be fantastic. I think I might even grab a 3850x if this turns out to be the case and the MSI X570 Tomahawk.

#34

macrobe

This refresh is compensation to "x470" owners for the lack of ryzen 4000 series compatibility.

#35

EzioAs

macrobeThis refresh is compensation to "x470" owners for the lack of ryzen 4000 series compatibility.

AMD said they will work with board partners to offer beta BIOSes to owners of 400-series motherboards and Zen 3 CPUs.

#36

xman2007

btarunr3600X/3800X/3900X with 200-300 MHz increase would still be slower than Intel at gaming, making this a pointless launch. I have a hunch that AMD decided to raise TDP to 125 W and somehow scrape +700 MHz (or some kind of boost clock spread and sustainability tech). Intel lowered the bar on efficiency with 10th gen, so I'm sure AMD would gladly relax efficiency for clocks.

XT is a declaration of intent. This is a gaming-performance focused refresh.

You can take a 65w zen 2 part and try to oc and increase tdp to 125w all day long without a refresh though there is no headroom left on these chips so another 700mhz is wishful thinking

200mhz above their current prospective model numbers would even be good, but there's no way they have 700mhz in them whatsoever based on every single review of zen2

#37

BoboOOZ

XuperWhy Can't CPU stay stable at 4.6ghz for sustained speed ?on all cores , they can only stay at 4.3ghz.

There are multiple limitations stacking up, but the one that everybody seems to miss is node size. the Finer the node size, the more difficult it is to increase voltages and currents in the chips. This is because the transistors are so close to each other that current that passes through one is influencing its neighbors via induction, so currents have to be kept small for signals to be stable. The finer the nodes, the tougher will be to increase the frequency in the future. Intel is able to obtain higher frequencies because their node size is larger, but as everybody transitions to smaller and smaller nodes, the 5GHz limit will always be there, and performance increases will be obtained through core count, parallelization and caches.

#38

1d10t

btarunr3600X/3800X/3900X with 200-300 MHz increase would still be slower than Intel at gaming, making this a pointless launch. I have a hunch that AMD decided to raise TDP to 125 W and somehow scrape +700 MHz (or some kind of boost clock spread and sustainability tech). Intel lowered the bar on efficiency with 10th gen, so I'm sure AMD would gladly relax efficiency for clocks.

XT is a declaration of intent. This is a gaming-performance focused refresh.

Meh, simply not gonna happen.My best bet are
- base clock raised by 200 - 300 Mhz.
- boost clock at 300 - 500 Mhz. 700Mhz would be pipe dream.
- toying with CCX'es inside their CCD.
- TDP will be listed 1 tier above, eg 95 to 105W and 105 to 125W.
- no "new tech" will be implemented as these build on same node and same architecture.

But hey, if price is right, why not. I need CPU for my upcoming B550 :p

#39

bubbleawsome

I really doubt we see Zen 2 hit anything near a sustained 5.0 honestly. I'm betting on 4.8 being about as high as they go, but being able to sustain that across more cores at once.
On the other hand, why not bring out new chips now that they have the numbers to bin like this? Who in their right mind would think this was a bad sign about something?

It's all about the media cycles. Now AMD will have a new "3800XT Review" on the front page of most tech sites, and it'll have the bonus of comparing Zen 2 with about a year of small, cumulative optimizations plus even higher clocks vs Intel's new 10th gen, instead of using number for relatively 'unoptimized' first run Zen 2 parts.

#40

efikkan

BoboOOZThere are multiple limitations stacking up, but the one that everybody seems to miss is node size. the Finer the node size, the more difficult it is to increase voltages and currents in the chips. This is because the transistors are so close to each other that current that passes through one is influencing its neighbors via induction, so currents have to be kept small for signals to be stable. The finer the nodes, the tougher will be to increase the frequency in the future. Intel is able to obtain higher frequencies because their node size is larger, but as everybody transitions to smaller and smaller nodes, the 5GHz limit will always be there, and performance increases will be obtained through core count, parallelization and caches.

Yes, that's right. Even AMD have stated that they expect clock speeds to decrease going forward (I assume for 5nm, 3nm…, but they didn't specify).
But with substantial gains in transistor density we should expect decent architectural advancements, not just in terms of core count and caches, but also more superscalar scaling, SIMD and ISA improvements.

#41

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop

ARFI associate refreshes with weakness and lack of any new compelling products based on a new architecture. They could try to pull Zen 3 forward then and cancel this circus.

Or they're just better at making the CPUs....

bubbleawsomeIt's all about the media cycles. Now AMD will have a new "3800XT Review" on the front page of most tech sites, and it'll have the bonus of comparing Zen 2 with about a year of small, cumulative optimizations plus even higher clocks vs Intel's new 10th gen, instead of using number for relatively 'unoptimized' first run Zen 2 parts.

...plus this. Improved process makes for slightly faster chips plus they get some media attention.

#42

my_name_is_earl

For a sec I was think a new AMD card... They really want to confuse people with the name.

#43

wahdangun

maybe they could loosened the density so it can reach higher clock

#44

efikkan

wahdangunmaybe they could loosened the density so it can reach higher clock

Fairly unlikely. These are probably "golden samples" they've put aside all along.

#45

Vayra86

This could well be the answer to the more strictly binned Intel chips across the performance stack. AMD is just catering to that niche along with silencing the eternal Muh Intel is faster in gaming argument.

Not so sure the XT branding is that helpful though. CPU looks very similar to GPU model now.

#46

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

I just want more ryzen options... gimme all de options

In about 2 months i'll have spare cash to upgrade things, and i like seeing all these extra choices

#47

TheLostSwede

News Editor

phanbueyif it's cheaper and faster maybe, but why bother to get one now if you're they're gonna release a faster chip in 3 months.

And you know they're going to release something in three months? The announcement is supposed to be in September, but how many months after that until availability?

lynx29i just dont understand this, i mean september is only 3 months away and that is confirmed release target date of rdna 2 gpu, ampere, they would have better off saving rnd, production lines and moving their november 4000 series cpu release to september, so people could do a full new build in time for cyberpunk 2077

Confirmed by who? Not AMD for sure. It's a rumour so far. And announcement vs release is two different things. Last time it took what, three months from the announcement to launch?

ShurikNIs it possible that these chips are on 7nm+, the peoces that's supposed to go into Ryzen 4000. Maybe AMD was experimenting with the node, see how it behaves, and then saw an opportunity to release it alongside b550?

But B550 is going to be available next month, so that last part doesn't add up.

#48

Darmok N Jalad

What if it’s not “XT” like from the GPU segment, but that they are adding a “T” classification to their chips to match Comet Lake? That is, these will all be 35W grade CPUs. It would make sense in that it would fill in a gap where AMD does not have a direct product match to Intel. AMD could have been saving up bins all this time to get there. We already know this architecture can be very fast and efficient on mobile.

#49

Camm

Darmok N JaladWhat if it’s not “XT” like from the GPU segment, but that they are adding a “T” classification to their chips to match Comet Lake? That is, these will all be 35W grade CPUs. It would make sense in that it would fill in a gap where AMD does not have a direct product match to Intel. AMD could have been saving up bins all this time to get there. We already know this architecture can be very fast and efficient on mobile.

That actually makes more sense.

#50

HD64G

My prediction is that this refresh line with get higher binned chiplets closer to 3950X's ones with boost up to 4,8GHz and sustained all-core-boost clocks depending to the power limits that the customers will be able to configure through the UEFI. If price is right those will launch just to lower the Intel sales of their 10th gen core CPUs and keep market share of AMD solid until Zen3 arrives and conquers.

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AMD "Matisse Refresh" Processor SKUs Include 3900XT, 3800XT, and 3600XT

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