Just watched the video. Holy smokes either that thing is huge, or that guy is really small. Still, it looks highly serviceable and accessible inside. Yeah, some things would void the warranty, but you’re likely already outside of the warranty period if you’re doing your own repairs. The heatsink is suitably massive. I bet the Zen2 potion of the APU might pull 15-20W of the 180W in the budget based on those clocks, so the question is, what sort of 6000 series GPU is AMD going to give us in the 160W range?

BonesLM is well known for deteriorating stuff it comes in contact with, it's like they are trying to recreate an issue like the PS3 has with the chips needed to be reflowed/resoldered after a few years.
That could still happen since they like using lead-free solder on everything anyway and I doubt they've changed a thing regarding all that.

I once read something about using nickel in between liquid metal and a copper or aluminium based heatsink, since it is apparently far more resistant.

Seems strange that Sony wouldn't realize the effects of liquid metal on a heatsink.

windwhirlWe're just speculating over what could it be. So yes, I'm thinking about it.

The PS4 had its Ethernet controller in a separate chip. Why couldn't they do the same again? Heck, the chip right behind the Ethernet port could be a candidate for that.

OK, but the ARM chip on the PS4 also handled file operations (SATA, BluRay and USB), some network features (like background downloading) and firmware updates. What would stop Sony from including a secondary processor for handling that (except for the low-level SSD operations, since those will be handled by the custom NVMe controller)?

But they are not ... They have the "SOC" which means "System on a chip" and using their own proprietary "SSD controller". Both party's can add their own extra sauce to the SOC. Think of security or preventing anything else running on it then Sony / MS "OS". The little chip is proberly a NIC/Wireless in one;

TheLostSwedeIt's not about feeling the need, it's about it being impossible to replace when the time comes. Obviously some people will replace their old console at some point and forget about it, but a lot of people seem to collect these things. My older cousin has all of his Sony consoles tucked away and a silly thing like this, means you will have issues in the future.

As an old console collector myself who does maintenance on them, I'm more worried about the long term damage to the heatsink. I don't think the liquid metal drying is a problem with the solution they created, let's see how is that heatsink after 10 years.

Also, it's probably worth just changing the liquid metal for regular paste. Maybe there will be good cheap carbon thermal sheets by then.

TartarosAs an old console collector myself who does maintenance on them, I'm more worried about the long term damage to the heatsink. I don't think the liquid metal drying is a problem with the solution they created, let's see how is that heatsink after 10 years.

Geez, they done 2 years of R&D and i dont believe one thing that they would apply a sollution that would damage anything on the long run. Yes surface of the heatsink might be a little vague over time but it does'nt affect any of the cooling performance. What i do think why they would apply LM in the first place is to support the fast rising clocks up to 2.2/2.3Ghz for the Navi chip. Think about it. The heat transfer from an object to a heatsink while using LM is pretty much instant and that can cover those insane high boost clocks. If your so worried replace the LM then; but as a tradeoff you'll get proberly a tad lower performance.

I only see advantage by using LM. Your not supposed to spread it onto the caps around the CPU either because it's a product that will defenitly short it out.

JismGeez, they done 2 years of R&D and i dont believe one thing that they would apply a sollution that would damage anything on the long run.

The only thing I will respond to this is: original Playstation 3 and original Xbox 360.

Yeah, all it's good and beautiful on paper and FM land, let's see that thing on AM land 10 years later is all I'm saying. Not to mention is not like +10 years of service is what Sony is targeting, we are talking about conservation and collectors.

Every component that has a fan and cooling, needs maintaince. You cant expect the thing to collect dust over time in millions of households and still keep temperatures within spec.

Perhaps going passive was a better "long term" sollution in regards to maintaince but that would require 4x or even more the amount of heatsink you see now.

JismEvery component that has a fan and cooling, needs maintaince. You cant expect the thing to collect dust over time in millions of households and still keep temperatures within spec.

Perhaps going passive was a better "long term" sollution in regards to maintaince but that would require 4x or even more the amount of heatsink you see now.

One thing is a broken fan that can be somehow changed by another or creating a solution to fit other type of fans in the housing like people does with the Dreamcast and PS2 and another entirely different thing is changing something very hard to find a substitute like a heatsink in a cramped space. They are not even comparable.

You might find it boxy, but it is good for air circulation impedance to avoid any sharp turns. The fan is essentially working as a passive exhaust vent with passive convection doing much of the work.

JismBut they are not ...

OK, if you have the documents and datasheets that show exactly what that little chip is, then it's time to post them.

JismThey have the "SOC" which means "System on a chip" and using their own proprietary "SSD controller". Both party's can add their own extra sauce to the SOC. Think of security or preventing anything else running on it then Sony / MS "OS". The little chip is proberly a NIC/Wireless in one;

And that's a fine possibility, but I still think that it could be a secondary processor for offloading stuff simple stuff just for the sake of making sure that as much as possible of the main SoC is dedicated only to the gaming stuff. It doesn't really matter when the console is idling, but say you have a very intensive game, the last thing you want to see is a frame drop because of game updates in the background, for example.

JismYour not supposed to spread it onto the caps around the CPU either because it's a product that will defenitly short it out.

The patent about the cooling system that showed up a little while ago had some mention of the caps being covered by an insulator, so that shouldn't be a problem, since the LM won't even touch the caps.

TartarosYeah, all it's good and beautiful on paper and FM land, let's see that thing on AM land 10 years later is all I'm saying. Not to mention is not like +10 years of service is what Sony is targeting, we are talking about conservation and collectors.

And that's a fine worry, but sadly Sony doesn't care for that. That glove will probably be picked up by the emulation communities, as usual.

he didn't bow at the end of the video.

BumbleBeehe didn't bow at the end of the video.

That's bad manners! HE MUST RESIIIIIIGGGNNN!!!1!!11! :laugh:

windwhirlAnd that's a fine worry, but sadly Sony doesn't care for that. That glove will probably be picked up by the emulation communities, as usual.

The problem is conservation of the console itself for collectionism. Even things like damaged boards can be worked around, a heatsink with concrete dimensions for use in the original case is a major problem since it's metal working and not many people can do that. I know I'm a little dramatic over this and probably it will work with just sanding it, but still is a piece very difficult to substitute. Let's see how they age.

That's bad manners! HE MUST RESIIIIIIGGGNNN!!!1!!11!

I would just hugh him and pat his head, that kind of social pressure they have in Japan must be agonizing sometimes.

JismThey said they put 2 years of R&D into that sollution, so i assume they know what they are doing.

This helps in a overall more quiet system, but the small fin stack on the heatsink however is bound to catch dust.

Not convinced, just because they say so doesn't make the PS5 reliable, only time will tell.

FleuriousLiquid metal should help with temps but isn’t there a concern about that stuff drying/oxidizing after a couple years?

On Silicon and appropriate heatsink materials? No.

windwhirlI once read something about using nickel in between liquid metal and a copper or aluminium based heatsink, since it is apparently far more resistant.

Seems strange that Sony wouldn't realize the effects of liquid metal on a heatsink.

I'm sure they are probably using a nickel plated heatplate, that isn't uncommon.

In the past 3 years Sony has really revitalized its product line. Many of us older folks may remember Sony products from the late 80's and early 90s. Nobody could build electronics like Sony then. It seems that with their cameras, audio gear, consoles, etc they are back in tip top form.

Darmok N JaladJust watched the video. Holy smokes either that thing is huge, or that guy is really small. Still, it looks highly serviceable and accessible inside. Yeah, some things would void the warranty, but you’re likely already outside of the warranty period if you’re doing your own repairs. The heatsink is suitably massive. I bet the Zen2 potion of the APU might pull 15-20W of the 180W in the budget based on those clocks, so the question is, what sort of 6000 series GPU is AMD going to give us in the 160W range?

They should let a sumo wrestler do the presentation :laugh:.

That's not a "blower" fan, it's a Centrifugal fan, there's a difference.

Just a reminder of how much heat an internal SSD NVME m.2 emit, 70c+, let see how that will affect the overall heating of the console, I prefer an external NVME SSD than an internal one for consoles.

AsRockNot sure about the PS3 fat but the slim one that still have is pretty silent.

Yes that fans MASSIVE, should allow it to run slower.

A slowly turning radial fan isn't moving any air whatsoever ;) There is no length of blades that increases with size, its all about RPM.

Just watched the teardowns of the original PS4 and PS4 Pro and the main takeaway is the size of the heatsink of the PS5. It looks like it's 3-4 times as big as the one in the PS4 Pro. If anyone else is curious as well, here they are:

so If NVME dies , Motherboard will dies.wow

JismGeez, they done 2 years of R&D and i dont believe one thing that they would apply a sollution that would damage anything on the long run. Yes surface of the heatsink might be a little vague over time but it does'nt affect any of the cooling performance. What i do think why they would apply LM in the first place is to support the fast rising clocks up to 2.2/2.3Ghz for the Navi chip. Think about it. The heat transfer from an object to a heatsink while using LM is pretty much instant and that can cover those insane high boost clocks. If your so worried replace the LM then; but as a tradeoff you'll get proberly a tad lower performance.

I only see advantage by using LM. Your not supposed to spread it onto the caps around the CPU either because it's a product that will defenitly short it out.

That's 2 years of R&D in making the machine work in the first place long enough to get past the usual warranty period.
Anything after that is fair game.

It's well known LM has a deteriorative effect on components such as a CPU lid, coolers and so on, I've seen the evidence from many others that's used it too many times before.
Many that have delidded CPU's and used it have seen the effects of it within the first 18 months of the application but normally it's more like just two to three years. After that temps will get noticably warmer over time, at least requiring a re-TIM regardless of what you go with.

I can promise you they didn't really check on how the stuff held up against such, only that the console worked to an expected degree of performance with the expectation it would probrably survive the warranty period.
Anyone can do as they will with it but for me, if I ever get one that will be the first thing I "Fix" - Warranty be damned over it.

HisDivineOrderAgain, exactly the same problem Microsoft had with the Xbox 360. This generation is really reminding me a lot of that generation, too. Sony's also making similar mistakes, emphasizing the wrong technological areas while giving Microsoft the superior experience crown for no good reason.

Sony's biggest mistakes in the PS3 era were:

1) Making the console "powerful" without catering to devs and making things easy for them.

2) Thinking that complete backcompat was an essential feature (I know this is anathema to us PC players, but Sony actually went as far as including a PS2 chip in every OG PS3, which contributed to an absurdly high price, like it was $600 and still lost Sony like $300-$400, all over a feature that Sony now knows that most console users don't really use).

I don't see them repeating either, in fact, I see this gen as more like the Xbox/PS2/Gamecube one, where no one made a really big fuck-up and most of them made bread.

londisteAre you new to consoles? :)

No lol. But PC people like us always underestimate how far consoles would go to try and make things easier for consumers that aren't used to or willing to DIY.