medi01NV failure seems largely to be "piss off TSMC and go to Samsung", let's not pretend scalpers never existed before or NV never released anticipated GPUs, shall we.

What does pissing off TSMC by going Samsung has to do with NV failure to deliver graphics cards on a launch day?
Who said scalpers never existed? I'm saying that NV failed to deliver.
Scalpers were pointed out and I jumped into the discussion.

ratirtWhat does pissing off TSMC by going Samsung has to do with NV failure to deliver graphics cards on a launch day?

1) Say "f*ck off" to TSMC 7nm
2) Hug Samsung, ask them to rename their old process to "8nm", kinda admitting it is worse, but not quite as if it was called 10nm
3) Develop GA104 8/16GB to be sold as 3070/3080 for reasonable price, GA102 to be 20/24GB and cost a fortune
4) Figure Lisa's "Big Navi" does this to GA104:


5) Be forced to use GA102 as 3080 (still OC it into oblivion out of the box) and enjoy the clusterfruck:

* Insane power consumption
* Idiotic 10GB configuration (to save costs)
* terrible margins at $699, heck, even if people buy it, you don't want to sell it at that price
* no availability, as demand for $699 cards is much higher than demand for $1.2k+ cards

LocutusHSure, you can also believe in wonders. They might just happen. Who knows.

You can also believe there's something betweent the lines. There might be, who knows. Probably not.

TurmaniaAMD, telling businesses how to run their own company....

Turmania, telling AMD (and all ther retails PARTNERS) how to run their own company....


Meanwhile if AMD was facing the same issues as nvidia people criticizing them here, would be bashing them. imagine if nvidia hadn't faced these issues, they would go apeshit against AMD

medi011) Say "f*ck off" to TSMC 7nm
2) Hug Samsung, ask them to rename their old process to "8nm", kinda admitting it is worse, but not quite as if it was called 10nm
3) Develop GA104 8/16GB to be sold as 3070/3080 for reasonable price, GA102 to be 20/24GB and cost a fortune
4) Figure Lisa's "Big Navi" does this to GA104:


5) Be forced to use GA102 as 3080 (still OC it into oblivion out of the box) and enjoy the clusterfruck:

* Insane power consumption
* Idiotic 10GB configuration (to save costs)
* terrible margins at $699, heck, even if people buy it, you don't want to sell it at that price
* no availability, as demand for $699 cards is much higher than demand for $1.2k+ cards

Really not sure what you are after here.
NV failure to deliver the cards is not because they went with Samsung's 8nm node. (and yeah it sucks) This one is 2 years old already and the yields (if that's what you are talking about) are very good.
I agree with you but this doesn't answers anything to what the subject is and what's been presented as a scalping failure or supply issue.

Oh yeah scalpers!!!
"AMD’s Big Navi will feature 80 Compute Units (5120 Stream Processors). This card will be (for now) AMD exclusive. The Radeon RX 6900XT will be the AMD flagship series, which according to our sources will be in limited quantity. "
Source: videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-6900xt-to-feature-navi-21-xtx-gpu-with-80-cus
AMD is not only learning from the devil but also joining him!

TurmaniaAMD, telling businesses how to run their own company....

or have another Nvidia fiasco....it can really be that simple. I absolutely applaud AMD for learning from what transpired with the NV launch. They could have low stock, but to automatically jump there and be so 'sure' of it............ ??? Zoinks.



Some of the opinions here.... sweet jebus....cant live that paranoid life and call it 'woke'. Lulz.

TurmaniaYou know it is a PR job, when they release a public statement that has no legal standing in any form or shape. it is washing over your eyes. if you are so worried about those issues, you take full control, and supply your own products via yourself.

Or it could be that this is 2020 and they have seen that the PC market is (due to the pandemic) unprecedented in terms of demand. Maybe they also saw that products in this space that are faster than the current offerings will be gobbled up due to this demand. Or maybe it is just that there are actually good people in the World. I have no illusions that AMD is not a Public Corporation but the fact that it is not big (in relation to it's competitors) means that it may not be run by the sharks that influence Intel and Nvidia to make desultory decisions that are low on the moral/human scale. I believe this because I believe in Lisa Su. She has not (to my knowledge) made any false claims in regards to products and AMD has been very quiet (again a reflection on Lisa) about it's products. Anyone in tech knows that AMD used to claim Big and deliver average performance. If the 3300x is any indication and the rumours are real (or not) there will be serious demand for these and they want to make sure the Community that supports AMD is aware that they are doing what they can to help. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Meanwhile, ryzen 3 3300x has been sold out for months. The blind ignorance of sime people amazes me.

TurmaniaMeanwhile, ryzen 3 3300x has been sold out for months. The blind ignorance of sime people amazes me.

Do you really believe AMD could have predicted a virus that would force everyone to be home? The 3300X is a no brainer for a budget build due to the fact that it was reviewed with the 3100 and in many reviews was compared (faster) to the 7700K and there was no Intel 10th Gen chip at the time. The lack of supply does indeed support that AMD did not think that there would be so much demand for that chip. We have no idea how many they produced but if new CPUs are coming out in 2 weeks I don;t hold out much hope. That has nothing to do with ignorance.

XaledOh yeah scalpers!!!
"AMD’s Big Navi will feature 80 Compute Units (5120 Stream Processors). This card will be (for now) AMD exclusive. The Radeon RX 6900XT will be the AMD flagship series, which according to our sources will be in limited quantity. "
Source: videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-6900xt-to-feature-navi-21-xtx-gpu-with-80-cus
AMD is not only learning from the devil but also joining him!

Quiet a deduction. I assume you are fed with other new products released in no limited quantities...

I hope this works.. I want them so bad:rockout:

TurmaniaAMD, telling businesses how to run their own company....

*partners - authorized resellers even.

Its about damn time.

kapone32Just because we live in a World that is rife with bigotry, xenophobia and acrimony does not mean that a Company could not be genuine in their messaging. If you know for a fact that this is a PR job show me. BTW what is wrong with morals and ethics.

It is a PR job, but some people are shit at interpreting it. This is good show for customers, at worst. And at best its a genuine call. The fact that it exists though, is a writing on the wall. AMD really does want this, or they wouldn't say it - no matter how good or bad stock is. Resellers who ignore this, will stand out.

Vayra86*partners - authorized resellers even.

Its about damn time.



It is a PR job, but some people are shit at interpreting it. This is good show for customers, at worst. And at best its a genuine call. The fact that it exists though, is a writing on the wall. AMD really does want this, or they wouldn't say it - no matter how good or bad stock is. Resellers who ignore this, will stand out.

Or maybe it is just a "Hey people there are scalpers out there! although we are trying our best to prevent them from stealing your candy, don't be surprised if they do it and don't be surprised prices increase"

XaledOr maybe it is just a "Hey people there are scalpers out there! although we are trying our best to prevent them from stealing your candy, don't be surprised if they do it and don't be surprised prices increase"

Maybe. In that case... same conclusion really. They tried; its still a free market.

Vayra86Maybe. In that case... same conclusion really. They tried; its still a free market.

It is definitely a free market, if this whole scalpers things is real/true.

AMD says they “strongly recommend” following the guidelines, which sounds to me like they’re not obligated or legally bound. Retailers have no incentive NOT to let bots snatch up stock because it’s still money. I appreciate the sentiment, but this just looks like a PR buffer for a bad launch. I highly doubt it’ll go smoothly, so don’t hold your breath folks.

If this works, AMD screws the scalpers (who are stocked up with multiple RTX 3080s and 3090s trying to offload them) and NVidia at the same time.

kapone32Another reason why I like AMD.


That is not true. This GPU has been in development for Years and when they made the current run of PS5 and XBox1X GPUs these were also in the production run. We honestly have no idea how many of these chips AMD has produced but if they have that many variants lanuching, it says to me that supply shortage is not the reason but moral stewardship.

What does GPU being in development for years have to do with quantities available at launch? You realize that any product can be made artificially scarce, do you? In fact multiple unrelated industries have done such thing to drive profits up, with diamond cartel being probably the most notorious example.

Please admit it, you would not use this excuse if it were nVidia doing that instead, right?

Because AMD is as much of a profit-oriented corporation as nVidia is. They are not releasing new video cards as charity work for gamers lol. Instead nVidia did drop the ball PR wise on current release and AMD does learn from it, and for that gotta salute the latter, as their any remotely recent PR work in GPU department has been questionable at best.

Dave65I hope this works.. I want them so bad:rockout:

ExcuseMeWtfWhat does GPU being in development for years have to do with quantities available at launch? You realize that any product can be made artificially scarce, do you? In fact multiple unrelated industries have done such thing to drive profits up, with diamond cartel being probably the most notorious example.

Please admit it, you would not use this excuse if it were nVidia doing that instead, right?

Because AMD is as much of a profit-oriented corporation as nVidia is. They are not releasing new video cards as charity work for gamers lol. Instead nVidia did drop the ball PR wise on current release and AMD does learn from it, and for that gotta salute the latter, as their any remotely recent PR work in GPU department has been questionable at best.

The reason i say that is because this was made for the PS5 and Xbox1x as well so the manufacturing process must have been robust. How long has this been in development? How long have they spent refining the PS5 and Xbox1x? How long would they have to run production (with Covid at that) to satisfy to fulfill the preorders? How many chips would they have produced to give us so many skus leaked? Of course it could be the opposite and those influences cause a dearth in supply but no one really knows other than AMD and TSMC. I don't see AMD willingly shorting this GPU launch, they have been riding a wave and are aware of the mindshare they have gained. Besides if they have a chance for a one up over Nvidia they will gladly take it.

kapone32so the manufacturing process must have been robust.

That's an assumption. No other information withstanding, I see this as a concern to be able to supply enough silicon for consoles and discrete GPUs, as different as they may be (which may be its saving grace).

EarthDogThat's an assumption. No other information withstanding, I see this as a concern to be able to supply enough silicon for consoles and discrete GPUs, as different as they may be (which may be its saving grace).

"Of course it could be the opposite and those influences cause a dearth in supply but no one really knows other than AMD and TSMC."

Half of you guys, all you do is look for something to complain about. Even when a company tries to do right by you you still fuck them.

ratirtReally not sure what you are after here.
NV failure to deliver the cards is not because they went with Samsung's 8nm node.

Yes, no, or possibly a big monolithic die being more challenging for yields and on a bigger node while competing against a chip on a smaller node and I believe a smaller chip as well is a certainly a matter of impact. Lower yields more power draw worse efficiency and if they want to address the power draw and efficiency it means even more binning and less yields realistically or more neutered parts.

ratirtIt's not the leak that is supposed to keep scalpers from scalping cards, but this proves that AMD has informed retailers to take necessary precautions so the scalping will not happen on an enormous scale and disrupt the sales.
Covid has nothing to do with this and if it has it is a small margin. So small that it doesn't matter. If you look at the charts for transit and logistics you would know. Trucks for example has gone down in 2020 1.1% in comparison to 2019 so it's like nothing.
It is on AMD and NVidia since they are selling these cards (NV FE edition cards) on their own webpage. AMD will sell these new cards on its webpage as well. All everyone needs to do is to prepare for that scalping since these people will try it. You need to put in a system that will minimize these actions.

The main issue that keeps scalpers in business is that no company will ever launch millions of inventory units at once, for various reasons that can never be fully resolved (inventory allocation, retailers/AIBs not wanting to freeze too much liquid cash into on-hand stock that may go unsold..etc), any launch always start with a small-to-medium inventory with follow-up shipments previously planned.

This is shit that happens in every launch of almost every product from GPU to detergents, now there's a unique problem that is compounding the usual issue even further, and it's three-fold:

1) COVID fucked both shipping and manufacturing operations, so those pre-planned re-stock shipments? Delayed. So now we will be in a huge supply constraint until the manufacturer pumps a lot of stock into the system, which they may be reluctant to do because it would very risky down the line.
2) Scalpers really leveled up their game this go round, there are multiple investigative reports of tech scalpers using techniques that weren't used before, and before you say "Just use anti-bot measures like CAPTCHA", bot-builders have ways to circumvent those measures, it's an arms race that will never stop, sorta like Antiviruses and malware makers.
3) COVID meant that people can't just go into a store and pre-order one, because of safety concerns etc. So everyone is waiting on the same units and refreshing the same online pages etc.

If anyone purposely fucked up their launch, it's probably Sony launching their console without letting anyone know in advance.

kapone32The reason i say that is because this was made for the PS5 and Xbox1x as well so the manufacturing process must have been robust. How long has this been in development? How long have they spent refining the PS5 and Xbox1x? How long would they have to run production (with Covid at that) to satisfy to fulfill the preorders? How many chips would they have produced to give us so many skus leaked? Of course it could be the opposite and those influences cause a dearth in supply but no one really knows other than AMD and TSMC. I don't see AMD willingly shorting this GPU launch, they have been riding a wave and are aware of the mindshare they have gained. Besides if they have a chance for a one up over Nvidia they will gladly take it.

PS5 was reported by Bloomberg for having supply issues linked to their yields (and MS could be tossing their own "failed" chips into their Series S). Sony denied said report, but you never really know.

ReanThe main issue that keeps scalpers in business is that no company will ever launch millions of inventory units at once, for various reasons that can never be fully resolved (inventory allocation, retailers/AIBs not wanting to freeze too much liquid cash into on-hand stock that may go unsold..etc), any launch always start with a small-to-medium inventory with follow-up shipments previously planned.

This is shit that happens in every launch of almost every product from GPU to detergents, now there's a unique problem that is compounding the usual issue even further, and it's three-fold:

1) COVID fucked both shipping and manufacturing operations, so those pre-planned re-stock shipments? Delayed. So now we will be in a huge supply constraint until the manufacturer pumps a lot of stock into the system, which they may be reluctant to do because it would very risky down the line.
2) Scalpers really leveled up their game this go round, there are multiple investigative reports of tech scalpers using techniques that weren't used before, and before you say "Just use anti-bot measures like CAPTCHA", bot-builders have ways to circumvent those measures, it's an arms race that will never stop, sorta like Antiviruses and malware makers.
3) COVID meant that people can't just go into a store and pre-order one, because of safety concerns etc. So everyone is waiting on the same units and refreshing the same online pages etc.

If anyone purposely fucked up their launch, it's probably Sony launching their console without letting anyone know in advance.

I don't think you get me. The Scalpers are out there yes. No one is doubting it. What you seem to miss is, AMD released a notification about it to the resellers for taking necessary precautions. Everyone knows about the scalpers bro. EVERYONE. What you need to understand and others as well, AMD Is going to hit NV back with the NAVI cards. It is in AMD's best interest to get as many cards out there as possible and that is what I'm talking about. Preventive measures it is not like CAPTCHA. As you said scalpers are getting better at what they do and AMD is informing resellers about it to take necessary precautions regarding this issue. the point is not that scalpers aren't there but that AMD is informing resellers to do something about it. This means AMD knows how important this launch is for them.
Covid slowed growth that's for sure but like I said, The global transport Air & sea and trucks in 2020 in comparison to 2019 dropped by 1.1%. That's nothing so you can't blame it on Covid.
People can do it online bro. You don't need to go to wallmart to buy stuff cheap any longer. You can do it online and it will be delivered to you.
So if you are stuck at home for instance, you do shopping online and buy more stuff.
NV failed to deliver and people, due to covid, were buying stuff online and never get it. It's not because of covid or scalpers (to a point) but huge supply issue they have with the cards. And just to let you know. It is not due to 8nm Samsung since this one is 2 years old already (or more)
You need to understand the demand here.
Graphics cards like NV released for $700 or $1500 are a niche.
Consoles on the other hand are being sold in millions. So 2m units for consoles might be not enough considering how many of these is being sold per year. Especially now with the 4k Ray Tracing features.
For graphics cards like 3080, 2m units is all they sell probably. The difference here is enormous and you need to understand that.
Consoles are earning way more than graphics.
For example, Sony PS4 (including pro) sold over 100 million units in total till the end of 2019.
Now if you think about the demand here and divide the 100 mils for 12 months that gives you around 8.3 mil units per month. Lets say you release 5 mils the first month and you will get supply issue.
Now think about the graphics like 3080 , they will sell 2-3m (if lucky) overall. All units 3080 sold ever. Do you see the magnitude here? On top of that, that's just PS4. There's Xbox as well so imagine what a demand in the console market is and suddenly "demand and supply issue" gets totally different meaning here.