Friday, October 23rd 2020

NVIDIA Readies New GeForce RTX 30-series SKU Positioned Between RTX 3070 and RTX 3080

Oct 23rd, 2020 07:32 Discuss (86 Comments)

Possibly unsure of the GeForce RTX 3070 tackling AMD's Radeon RX 6000 series parts, NVIDIA is designing a new RTX 30-series SKU positioned between the RTX 3070 and RTX 3080. This is not a 16 GB variant of the RTX 3070, but rather a new SKU based on the 8 nm "GA102" silicon, according to a reliable source with NVIDIA leaks, kopite7kimi. The SKU is based on the GA102 with the ASIC code "GA102-150-KD-A1." The silicon is configured with 7,424 CUDA cores across 58 streaming multiprocessors (29 TPCs), 232 tensor cores, 232 TMUs, 58 RT cores, and an unknown number of ROPs. According to kopite7kimi, the card is configured with a 320-bit wide memory interface, although it's not known if this is conventional GDDR6, like the RTX 3070 has, or faster GDDR6X, like that on the RTX 3080.

NVIDIA recently "cancelled" a future 16 GB variant of the RTX 3070, and 20 GB variant of the RTX 3080, which is possibly the company calibrating its response to the Radeon RX 6000 series. We theorize that doubling in memory amounts may not have hit the desired cost-performance targets; and the company probably believes the competitive outlook of the RTX 3080 10 GB is secure. This explains the need for a SKU with performance halfway between that of the RTX 3070 and RTX 3080. As for pricing, with the RTX 3070 positioned at $500 and the RTX 3080 at $700, the new SKU could be priced somewhere in between. AMD's RDNA2-based Radeon RX 6000 series GPUs are expected to feature DirectX 12 Ultimate logo compliance, meaning that there is a level playing ground between AMD and NVIDIA in the performance segment.

Source: kopite7kimi (Twitter)

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86 Comments on NVIDIA Readies New GeForce RTX 30-series SKU Positioned Between RTX 3070 and RTX 3080

#26

Anymal

3080ti would mean they are worried about rdna2 top gpu, 3070ti means they will undercut it.

#27

Tigerfox

Remember AMD isn't just releasing one SKU of BigNavi, but three. There isn't much room regarding performance between 3080 10GB and 3090, so if Navi21XTX performs slightly above 3080, there isn't much they can do about it, 3080 20GB wouldn't add much to performance atm, but cost much more, while a 3080Ti/S with more SM (up to 72 or 6 full GPC, like the rumored GA103 ist going to have) will kill both the 3080 and 3090.

But if Navi21XT performs much better than 3070 and the canceled 3070Ti, they can at least counter that with this GPU, albeit the profitmargin will be quite bad. It will be better, if this SKU will use the GA103 later on, like the 3080, but even then it isn't what NV would wish for. But that's what happened last year with 2060S and 2070S, which werre essentially 2070 and 2080 with some SM deactivated, but with the same PCB and same cost for a lower price, just to counter RX 5700(XT).
What I don't understand ist how NV hopes to keep their market share by offering three SKUs based on the same chip when they already said they can't offer enough chips for one this year.

The coming weeks will be exciting, it's still everything possible. Looks like Navi21XTX can outpferform a 3080

#28

KaitouX

MetroidI would say under performing because it is a 3070, price is right for a 3070 but there is not performance that justifies it to be a 3070, like i said before that is more like a 3060ti.

The 3070 is together with the 2070 the most expensive x70 GPU ever since Nvidia started using the current name scheme, the "right" price for the 3070 would have been $400 or less like every other x70 GPU had. I would agree that the price that is too high, the performance is fine as a x70 GPU.

#29

AusWolf

TigerfoxRemember AMD isn't just releasing one SKU of BigNavi, but three. There isn't much room regarding performance between 3080 10GB and 3090, so if Navi21XTX performs slightly above 3080, there isn't much they can do about it, 3080 20GB wouldn't add much to performance atm, but cost much more, while a 3080Ti/S with more SM (up to 72 or 6 full GPC, like the rumored GA103 ist going to have) will kill both the 3080 and 3090.

But if Navi21XT performs much better than 3070 and the canceled 3070Ti, they can at least counter that with this GPU, albeit the profitmargin will be quite bad. It will be better, if this SKU will use the GA103 later on, like the 3080, but even then it isn't what NV would wish for. But that's what happened last year with 2060S and 2070S, which werre essentially 2070 and 2080 with some SM deactivated, but with the same PCB and same cost for a lower price, just to counter RX 5700(XT).
What I don't understand ist how NV hopes to keep their market share by offering three SKUs based on the same chip when they already said they can't offer enough chips for one this year.

The coming weeks will be exciting, it's still everything possible. Looks like Navi21XTX can outpferform a 3080

Not to mention the fact that none of those three SKUs use fully unlocked chips - in fact, no 30 series card sold or planned does. It all just confirms: yields on this new node must be the worst we've seen in a long time (or maybe ever).

Edit: Or maybe nvidia is trying a different approach than AMD: Sell the garbage first, keep the hype train going, and sell the good stuff later. The fact that the 20 Super series ever existed would justify it - except that they're not really selling anything at the moment.

#30

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast

MetroidIt was about time, the gap is huge.

I would say under performing because it is a 3070, price is right for a 3070 but there is not performance that justifies it to be a 3070, like i said before that is more like a 3060ti.

And we know it is underperforming because it has reviews finished already? What is your metric? What does it underperform against?

#31

Metroid

rtwjunkieAnd we know it is underperforming because it has reviews finished already? What is your metric? What does it underperform against?

Specifications tell you x the 3080, or the 3080 is too damn cheap or the 3070 is too damn weak for that price. If you see past specifications of xx70 x xx80, you will see that this generation that gap is huge and that always translate to benchmarks. I myself have a gtx 1070 and when I saw the specifications of the gtx 1080 and the price they were asking I asked myself what the hell is nvidia doing, why charge so much for the gtx 1080 and so low for the gtx 1070, the gtx 1070 is ages better in price performance x the gtx 1080, but right now is the opposite, the 3080 is ages better than 3070 which makes us think why they named such low specs x 3080 a 3070, supposed to be maximum 3060 ti because of the 256bit or perhaps a 3060 super, $499? only idiots will buy this card. Inteligent people will either buy a 3060ti for $350 or a 3080 for $699.

#32

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast

Ahhh, the “idiots” argument. :rolleyes:

#33

Vayra86

ChomiqAnother day, another rtx rumor. How about they actually start producing cards instead of producing rumors.

Rumor Tracing? Hmmm

#34

goodeedidid

Yawn, what does it even matter if you can't even find a 3080 to buy right now?? I wanna get the 3080 and I can't even find it in the EU..

#35

medi01

londisteConsoles. 2070S/2080 class GPU horsepower in 500$€£ package...

More like 2080/2080s.

#36

evernessince

The 3070 Ti sounds like it's going to be the best card in the lineup. Good performance and reasonable TDP. The problem is will Nvidia has any stock in the next four months? I've been looking at nowinstock and the 3080 is hardly having any stock coming in.

#37

ViperXTR

same die as the 3080 and 3090?, Looks like the tdp would be similar then

#38

sergionography

RedelZaVednoGod please give Lisa Su wisdom to price Jensen's Ampere out of the market. Here's the tip:):

36CU (2.1GHz) 8Gb Navi22L = $249 ->RX5700(XT) replacement
40CU (2.3GHz) 10Gb Navi22 = $299 -> RTX 3060TI/2080/1080TI competitor
52 CU (2.1GHz) 10Gb Navi 21L = $399 -> 2080TI/370 competitor
64 CU (2.1GHz) 12Gb Navi 21 = $449 -> 2080TI/3070 beater
72 CU (2.2GHz) 16Gb Navi 21XL = $599 -> 3080 competitor
80CU (as fast as it gets, the hell with TPD) 16Gb Navi 21XT = $999 -> 3080 beater and maybe 3090 competitor

They could price it this way and beat Nvidia in every segment with the exception of raytracing. However Nvidia has the big marketing engine and a much bigger userbase/fanbase. I think all for sudden ray tracing is going to become the most important thing for people and reviewers alike, simply because it's Nvidia. So again the smart thing for AMD knowing this, is to price it in accordance to ray tracing performance so there is less of an argument for Nvidia.

For example if early leaks are to go by, then a 6800x would be on par or even beating rtx3080, but slightly overtakes or matches 3070 in ray tracing, so a price of 499 would be the most competitive way to go. Though that depends on how much supply AMD has, at which point they are more likely to price it to make most money without running out of supply. They can easily price it 549 or 599 and still be a completely solid option, but then again they risk giving Nvidia an argument.
I can already imagine even honest reviews saying things like "if you don't care for ray tracing, AMD is the best choice for the money and offers more performance, but if you care for ray tracing, Nvidia holds the edge and offers better value per frame"

Then comments section be like "NVIDIA IS KILLING AMD" "RayTracing or go home" "NVIDIA IS MORE FUTURE PROOF!" <--(even though this person upgrades every year)
Yeaaah I think I've been reading forums for far too long

#39

bug

Can GA102 handle GDDR6? Because of it needs GDDR6X, not only will it be plagued by the same supply issues as the 3080 and 3090, it will only add to those issues. Unless Nvidia plans to release this after they can get a steady stream of GDDR6X, which is always a possibility.

#40

steen

evernessinceThe 3070 Ti sounds like it's going to be the best card in the lineup.

It was originally planned as a full* die GA104 + GDDR6X.

Edit:* Full die was 3080. -1 SM was 3070. Many iterations.

bugCan GA102 handle GDDR6? Because of it needs GDDR6X, not only will it be plagued by the same supply issues as the 3080 and 3090, it will only add to those issues. Unless Nvidia plans to release this after they can get a steady stream of GDDR6X, which is always a possibility.

Yes it can. GDDR6X supply isn't (mostly) the problem.

Edit. Reasons.

#41

P4-630

steenIt was originally planned as a full* die GA104 + GDDR6X.

Edit:* Full die was 3080. -1 SM was 3070. Many iterations.

Yes it can. GDDR6X supply isn't (mostly) the problem.

Edit. Reasons.

You work for nvidia?..
I don't think so. :p

#42

Chrispy_

EarthDog10GB is plenty for 1440p over the life of the card... and most titles at 4K.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I personally don't think that 1440p, or "most" titles at 4K is flaghship material.
I'll be happy to be wrong, as it'll mean longer life for lots of people who bought into 8GB cards but we won't know if I'm wrong until the 3000-series successors come out.

#43

Hardware Geek

chris.londonI am not saying you are wrong, but what was the point in launching 2 months earlier than AMD with extremely limited quantities and not leaving enough time for the board partners to test their cards properly? Nvidia just pissed off a lot of people and I can’t see why.

Edit: it must have been the end of the financial quarter. Now it makes more sense.

End of quarter is definitely a big reason, but even though it is effectively a paper launch, simply being "first" definitely has marketing benefits. Hell, even this launch debacle is still generating tons of press coverage, and when they "fix" the design, they will be able to market the "new and improved" cards. People are still going to buy an Nvidia or AMD card if they are in the market for a new graphics card. Hopefully AMD has a competitive product, and if Intel card produce a competitive card, we would hopefully see prices drop and more innovation in the market.

londisteConsoles. 2070S/2080 class GPU horsepower in 500$€£ package...

Very valid point. Consoles this generation are going to give high end gaming machines a run for their money. That's a LOT of power for $500

#44

londiste

Hardware GeekVery valid point. Consoles this generation are going to give high end gaming machines a run for their money. That's a LOT of power for $500

This is a quickly changing landscape though. RTX3070 is likely to be a good 20-30% faster than consoles at $499 and AMD is likely to beat that in terms of perf/$. New consoles are going to get a head start but it is not going to last very long. But this is a price and performance point both AMD and Nvidia need to keep in mind with this generation already.

#45

steen

P4-630You work for nvidia?..

I'm in my kitchen if that helps you...:p

At this point I almost expect a 4th GA102 SKU, 3080ti 12GB.

Hardware GeekEnd of quarter is definitely a big reason, but even though it is effectively a paper launch, simply being "first" definitely has marketing benefits.

FQ, ARM, consoles.

#46

Vya Domus

Hardware GeekConsoles this generation are going to give high end gaming machines a run for their money. That's a LOT of power for $500

No they aren't, come on. High end now means 3090-3080 or RX 6900XT, these consoles have the GPU power of a mid range GPU from 2018-2019, like a 5700XT or 2070. The last generation that actually had high end GPUs was the PS3/360 generation where they had dedicated graphics chips. Ever since they moved to APUs it became inevitable that they can never match high end dedicated GPUs.

#47

medi01

Vya DomusNo they aren't, come on. High end now means 3090-3080 or RX 6900XT, these consoles have the GPU power of a mid range GPU from 2018-2019, like a 5700XT or 2070

It depends how you compare them.
56CU RDNA2 chip in XSeX should be at around 2080s levels.
95% of the steam survey today is slower than that.

#48

saki630

Nvidia is one generation ahead of Nvidia. This article is full of fake news made up to fill up a web post.

What people need to understand is that if $600 3070 is really good, then a cheaper weaker AMD might be a better choice.

#49

Hyderz

so its gonna be rtx 3075?

#50

londiste

saki630What people need to understand is that if $600 3070 is really good, then a cheaper weaker AMD might be a better choice.

3070 should be $500.

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NVIDIA Readies New GeForce RTX 30-series SKU Positioned Between RTX 3070 and RTX 3080

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