good but its still such a weird concept, making machines that literally produce money...and then selling those machines.

mining is never about making money. It's all to pay the electricity bills, buy new hardware and whatnot. The actual "profit" you get is not even enough to buy an RTX3070 at scalped prices.

Can they make an antminer video card that can mine FPS?

ZoneDymogood but its still such a weird concept, making machines that literally produce money...and then selling those machines.

They don't produce money, they produce arbitrary tokens that people with money like to gamble on, which thus gives them value.

Still, bring it on. The faster the ASIC miners arrive, the faster GPU mining becomes obsolete.

ValantarThey don't produce money, they produce arbitrary tokens that people with money like to gamble on, which thus gives them value.

Still, bring it on. The faster the ASIC miners arrive, the faster GPU mining becomes obsolete.

... So money?

As many of this appear, as many GPUs will be available on market :))

ZoneDymogood but its still such a weird concept, making machines that literally produce money...and then selling those machines.

You are kidding, right? The government does the same thing and they don't go to jail, money machine goes Brrrrrrrrrrrr.

deu... So money?

No, it's a device that amplifies greed.

It is a money printing machine, but it's a bit risky investment - if Eth goes PoS this year, it might not recoup the cost

deu... So money?

Tulips

ZoneDymogood but its still such a weird concept, making machines that literally produce money...and then selling those machines.

so is NVidia and AMD, in a sense. although this is more direct, since ASIC is not as general purpose and antminer doesn't exactly need market share competition.

Lomskij...but it's a bit risky investment - if Eth goes PoS this year, it might not recoup the cost

You're kidding, right? PoS is realistically like 3-6y away.

Let these ASICs flood the network - making GPU mining obsolete in ETH is the best thing that can happen to the crippled market right now.

if one 3080 in dollar terms produces roughly $10 dollars per day this particular money machine would produce $320 dollars per day or $2240 per week..

how much would such a machine be worth in dollar terms.. the current ebay price of one 3080 card is around $2000 dollars..

?????

trog

Legacy-ZAYou are kidding, right? The government does the same thing and they don't go to jail, money machine goes Brrrrrrrrrrrr.

Except governments are (typically, these days) democratically controlled institutions, meaning people actually have some way of influencing the systems that their lives are entirely reliant upon. Various cryptocurrencies might proclaim openness and so on, but users still have zero influence on their value, operation, or anything else, and never will as the systems are at best naïvely open, meaning power goes to those with the most resources, with no checks and balances and no mechanisms to distribute power.

deu... So money?

Nope, as money already exists, and is controlled by (admittedly variously) legitimate public institutions while also having near universal public support. Crypto is "money" in the same way stocks or any other quasi-real representation of value is real, and it's fundamentally reliant on established currency to work at all. Without the ability to buy and sell crypto for actual currencies, they would be utterly and completely worthless. Your logic would necessitate the possibility of gambling on the value of money being a core part of what money is, yet money can absolutely exist in a system that bans all speculation upon its value. So that logic is, at best, misunderstood.

ZoneDymogood but its still such a weird concept, making machines that literally produce money...and then selling those machines.

"Producing money" is only a part of mining rewards. Other part is to compensate your compute resources for handling transactions (transaction fee, or particularly for ETH it's "gas"). That's the fee you pay every time you move crypto between wallets.
Calling it "weird" is a bit of a stretch, given our current worldwide economic situation. Even in US with stronger economy they are running money press as we speak. Basically, most countries are creating COVID stimulus money out of nothing, because their budgets are already stretched to the limit. That's where all the recent fearmongering about hyperinflation comes from. Though, in case of crypto it causes deflation, which is a simple case of supply/demand. It's still highly unstable, but as years go by it finally started to follow the rules of any other commodity.

piloponthLet these ASICs flood the network - making GPU mining obsolete in ETH is the best thing that can happen to the crippled market right now.

I doubt it'll do anything to 30-series supply at all. The problem is not miners, the problem is limited supply and scalpers.

ValantarExcept governments are (typically, these days) democratically controlled institutions, meaning people actually have some way of influencing the systems that their lives are entirely reliant upon.

Last time I checked - our people had no say in the past 3 hyperinflations. In 2015 I got lucky only because I get paid in USD equivalent.
Also, look at US today. Everyone is criticizing the decision to print more money(not just the political opposition), yet it still happened.

ValantarExcept governments are (typically, these days) democratically controlled institutions, meaning people actually have some way of influencing the systems that their lives are entirely reliant upon. Various cryptocurrencies might proclaim openness and so on, but users still have zero influence on their value, operation, or anything else, and never will as the systems are at best naïvely open, meaning power goes to those with the most resources, with no checks and balances and no mechanisms to distribute power.

Naive.

Tsukiyomi91mining is never about making money. It's all to pay the electricity bills, buy new hardware and whatnot. The actual "profit" you get is not even enough to buy an RTX3070 at scalped prices.

Well, if you say so. My 3080 (bought at around 125% MSRP) is at around 70% of the break even point, all while paying for my whole house electrical bill - which is admittedly low, since there is no need for AC or heating thanks to the weather this year. It will pay for itself in a few weeks, at which point it will start generating income. Some early adopters already crossed this point.

ValantarExcept governments are (typically, these days) democratically controlled institutions

They are not. In most countries they are democratically elected, but voters have very little control over what the government actually does once it is in office. Even in Switzerland, with the very granular and direct democracy.

gpu mining is done for with this, let the idiots pay 5x the msrp of gpus then resell at 5x less than what they have paid as soon as this crashes hehe.

piloponthYou're kidding, right? PoS is realistically like 3-6y away.

Let these ASICs flood the network - making GPU mining obsolete in ETH is the best thing that can happen to the crippled market right now.

Everyone I've talked to is very confident that GPU mining won't go obsolete. When ETH mining is no longer profitable, something else will take its place because the miners out there with hardware investments will switch to that and it'll gain momentum just like Eth did when Bitcoin became dominated by ASICs.

silentbogoLast time I checked - our people had no say in the past 3 hyperinflations. In 2015 I got lucky only because I get paid in USD equivalent.
Also, look at US today. Everyone is criticizing the decision to print more money(not just the political opposition), yet it still happened.

That's because neoliberals and new public management ideologues have spent the past 4-5 decades gradually deconstructing government oversight over financial markets, thus removing them from democratic control. That shows how vulnerable democracy is to hostile ideologies if they manage to convince enough people, but this having happened isn't inherently the fault of democracy.

Legacy-ZANaive.

Or choosing to trust in a set of systems that have shown over the past ~70-ish years to be remarkably stable, resilient, well suited to caring for their populations, etc. It obviously doesn't mean that democracy is infallible, nor that it doesn't need a lot of work to both defend, maintain and improve, but at least there's a basis to work from that has proven itself over time. Crypto has nothing to show for itself except a playground for the rich and massive fluctuations causing massive losses to small investors.

TheUn4seenThey are not. In most countries they are democratically elected, but voters have very little control over what the government actually does once it is in office. Even in Switzerland, with the very granular and direct democracy.

In most democracies, party programmes are decided by members of the party through democratic processes within the party, and party membership is open to anyone wanting it. Pretty much anyone can also vote in general elections. Of course you can't entirely know how the people you voted for will act in situations not present in the party programmes, nor what the outcome of various negotiations will be, but you should still be able to trust them to follow the lines of thought laid out in party programmes. If not, then you really shouldn't be voting for them in the first place. And if your concerns aren't covered in party programmes, it's on you to work towards that changing. So, sorry, but they are democratically controlled.

As for direct democracy, it isn't feasible in any community of significant size, both in terms of the sheer number of decisions necessary as well as the infeasibility of everyone being sufficiently informed to make an active choice in each case. Dialogue and trust between the public, politicians and experts in relevant fields is the only way to maintain a practically functional form of democracy.

Chrispy_Everyone I've talked to is very confident that GPU mining won't go obsolete. When ETH mining is no longer profitable, something else will take its place because the miners out there with hardware investments will switch to that and it'll gain momentum just like Eth did when Bitcoin became dominated by ASICs.

Sadly that sounds likely.

ValantarThey don't produce money, they produce arbitrary tokens that people with money like to gamble on, which thus gives them value.

YOU NIBBA JUST DESCRIBED MONEY!

Money has no "real value" its just a piece of paper thats guaranteed to have a value in exchange for something that you want... it can loose its value too (it does it all the time)...

KarymidoNYOU NIBBA JUST DESCRIBED MONEY!

Money has no "real value" its just a piece of paper thats guaranteed to have a value in exchange for something that you want... it can loose its value too (it does it all the time)...

Damn, do I actually need to quote myself? See above:

Valantarmoney already exists, and is controlled by (admittedly variously) legitimate public institutions while also having near universal public support. Crypto is "money" in the same way stocks or any other quasi-real representation of value is real, and it's fundamentally reliant on established currency to work at all. Without the ability to buy and sell crypto for actual currencies, they would be utterly and completely worthless. Your logic would necessitate the possibility of gambling on the value of money being a core part of what money is, yet money can absolutely exist in a system that bans all speculation upon its value. So that logic is, at best, misunderstood.

That the value of money is arbitrary is obvious. What makes it real is societal acceptance and institutional support at massive scales. Crypto has neither, and is unlikely to gain either in the foreseeable future. It can become money, but it isn't.

Nope, as money already exists, and is controlled by (admittedly variously) legitimate public institutions while also having near universal public support. Crypto is "money" in the same way stocks or any other quasi-real representation of value is real, and it's fundamentally reliant on established currency to work at all. Without the ability to buy and sell crypto for actual currencies, they would be utterly and completely worthless. Your logic would necessitate the possibility of gambling on the value of money being a core part of what money is, yet money can absolutely exist in a system that bans all speculation upon its value. So that logic is, at best, misunderstood.

Nope, even wikipedia got you covered:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

Money is any item or verifiable record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts, such as taxes, in a particular country or socio-economic context.

If you set socio-economic context as, say, prison, cigarettes can become money. Like it or not, it doesn't matter if there are "legitimate public institutions" backing it up or not. It matters if people accept it as payment.

Pretty sure cryptocurrency meets "verifiable record" part, "generally accepted" is debatable for now, though in certain contexts it's probably "yes".

It all depends on how expensive it is, I can't imagine that one of these will cost less than 15-20K so it wont make any difference. These miners will have to be overwhelmingly more cost effective to make a dent in this market.

Also, I thought ETH was meant to be ASIC resilient ?

Bitmain you cannot make money anymore. Bitmain used to make miners for the single users back in the day. But now they only appeal to the huge investor crowd. If you notice they do not make any home miners anymore. Everything is 240 V now and massive power requirements. It's all about Power to Profit ratios. I still run 3 Antminer L3+'s but only at very low 400 watts of power each. Only doing about 250 MH's but still makes about 200 to 300 dollars a month. But of course Bitmain never made anything better. No Antminer L5 or L7 nope dropped the home user crowd all together.