Hi,
More of the same, very little improvement build after build and frankly just stating which build one is using is pretty funny
They really only cram 10 with more crap and change build numbers once again lol

It really is a pity linux hasn't progressed in the last 5-6 years think they missed a golden opportunity being so spread out in too many spawns this is mainly why 10 has gone the way it has there really is no competition just three walled gardens linux/ android/ apple.

stimpy88Remember, Natella hates Windows

Everyone should know this. The guy is a nitwit that the spareholders and board of directors need to replace desperately..

FrickHate is a strong word.

I wouldn't say that...

lexluthermiesterEveryone should know this. The guy is a nitwit that the spareholders and board of directors need to replace desperately..


I wouldn't say that...

Why? To both statements.

FrickWhy? To both statements.

Look at what Windows became after he took over at MS. Instead of taking Windows back from the crap of Windows 8 to what worked and was best(Windows 7), Windows became the crap that is currently...

lexluthermiesterWindows 8 to what worked and was best(Windows 7), Windows became the crap that is currently...

Um, what you may think is crap, I don't have a problem with. People largely want tablets now and Windows 7 wouldn't work on a tablet.

trparkyUm, what you may think is crap, I don't have a problem with.

You're saying you're ok with the spying and the forced inclusion of software not easily removed?

trparkyPeople largely want tablets now and Windows 7 wouldn't work on a tablet.

The following would like to have a chat with you:
www.zdnet.com/product/hp-slate-2/
www.cnet.com/products/hp-slate-500/
www.cnet.com/products/dell-latitude-st-tablet-win-7-pro-32-gb-10-1/
www.cnet.com/products/archos-9-pctablet-tablet-windows-7-starter-32-gb-8-9-series/

I actually had one very similar to the Dell model. Worked perfectly in every way. Wish I still had it...

You were saying?

There is no doubt that MS peaked with XP and Win7, and it's been downhill ever since. The performance of Windows goes down with every new release since Win7, and the same applies to Win10, ask any hardcore gamer!

New Windows versions mostly consist of new icons and the odd colour palette change here and there, and a lot of additional bloat. The core of Windows is slow and bloated, yet the core is something MS has eligibly been working hard to separate from the rest of Windows, so they could clean it up, optimise and improve it, away from the rest of the bloat. That was yet again another grandiose project that MS just doesn't have the skills to complete, so they do what they normally do, abandon it.

The only modern accomplishment MS has had in recent years, is the new Edge browser, which is fantastic, but ultimately not even made by MS, just improved and tweaked by them.

They lack the manpower, skills and management to engineer a genuinely new version of Windows, with Windows Vista being their last true attempt... That was 15 years ago, and they have been cleaning up the mess ever since, and yes, Windows 10 is still based on Vista.

lexluthermiesterYou're saying you're ok with the spying and the forced inclusion of software not easily removed?

No, I'm not ok with that at all. I can't stand having to remove a bunch of apps after reloading the OS but luckily there are scripts out there you can download and run that'll do that for you easily. As for the telemetry, turning the telemetry mode to Basic cuts the privacy invading data by 99.9%. I've looked at the data that is sent to Microsoft using the Diagnostic Data Viewer and there's nothing nefarious going on at all. Google does more datamining than Microsoft does, yet you never hear of people complain about the fact that Android is literally Google's datamining platform, and they carry said device with them everywhere they go all while Google is slurping up shitloads of data all the damn time. Double standard much?

There's a reason I have that avatar. You'll never find me using an Android. Fuck Android and fuck Facebook too. Both are nothing but datamining monsters that people freely use with no issues yet everyone complains about Microsoft. Again... Double standard much?

However, to say that Windows 10 is crap just because of that is a disservice to Windows 10 itself. There are many usability improvements to Windows 10 over Windows 7 that I find indispensable. Things like native secondary monitor taskbars, quick and easy reload of the OS without having to dig out the installation media, fully integrated OneDrive with offline file support, usable notifications with a history of them, high resolution DPI scaling that actually works (Windows 7 was piss shit poor at this), support to reconnect to Bluetooth devices with a simple Windows Key + K, etc. I really could go on and on with the improvements that I find very useful in Windows 10 over Windows 7.

stimpy88Microsoft have forgotten so much about making an OS, that all they can do is keep bolting on buggy features nobody really uses, and a few new icons every 8 years.

Microsoft and OS's are pretty much at the same level as Intel, and them designing new CPU architectures on new manufacturing nodes.

That's what happens when you have no real competition, even Linux has not got were it needs to be sadly but again MS have there hands in that too.

AsRockThat's what happens when you have no real competition

There's always Apple and MacOS.

AsRockeven Linux has not got were it needs to be

That's mainly because when it comes to usability, technical people really do suck at designing usable systems for the average user on the street. What may be completely easy to use for someone who's technically literate may be a complete disaster to those who barely know how to plug in a damn wire into the right port on the back of the computer. Even myself, who I have to admit is technically literate, have looked at many things on Linux and it's left me scratching my head. Until even I don't even have to think about how something works, Linux really won't ever take off in the non-technical space.

Honestly, the only version of Linux that's really easy to use is Android and ChromeOS. Why? Because Google made it braindead fucking easy to use. Want Linux to kill Microsoft? Make Linux braindead fucking easy to use. I should not EVER have to touch the command line and don't get me started with config files and command line switches. If you have more than six command line switches, you lost the average user. If you tell me to edit a config file, again... you lost the average user.

Like it or not, Windows is still king because the people in charge of many Linux distros can't get it through their damn heads that if you want to kill Microsoft stone dead, you have to make it so damn easy to use an idiot can use it.

Well the only reason i do use windows for the last 20+ years is simply due to DirectX, as for Apple no just no the OS just not make me want to use it all that much.

User ability yeah some what a headache but the OS is typical a lot more stable, it just don't do gaming all that good although it's made a good push over the years it just don't seem to be able to better it sadly.

As for Android and ChromeOS never used them and never will, which might be in part why i don't use OSX much. The lack of trust in the company's.

I just got updated to the latest beta of Microsoft Edge beta v92.0.902.9 and enabled "Enhance text contrast" in the hidden flags settings page and holy shit, text is now so much easier to read in Microsoft Edge. Hopefully Google Chrome takes in the changes that Microsoft contributed to the Chromium project and brings it to Google Chrome for their users as well. This is how open source should work!!!

trparkyAs for the telemetry, turning the telemetry mode to Basic cuts the privacy invading data by 99.9%. I've looked at the data that is sent to Microsoft using the Diagnostic Data Viewer and there's nothing nefarious going on at all.

Then that is a recent change, one I admit not keeping up on(don't care as remove it all manually anyway).

trparkyGoogle does more datamining than Microsoft does, yet you never hear of people complain about the fact that Android is literally Google's datamining platform, and they carry said device with them everywhere they go all while Google is slurping up shitloads of data all the damn time. Double standard much?

Not really. Google publicly declares what is collects and how. They also provide tools for managing what is collected. Not only can all of the personalized collection be turned off(required by law in some areas of the world), but you can also disable most of the rest.

trparkyThere's a reason I have that avatar. You'll never find me using an Android.

I think everyone has that figured out. Your loss.

trparkyHowever, to say that Windows 10 is crap just because of that is a disservice to Windows 10 itself.

It not just that, as was already stated elsewhere.

trparkyThings like native secondary monitor taskbars

Not everyone likes that. I disable it as the extra taskbar just get in the way taking up valuable space.

trparkyquick and easy reload of the OS without having to dig out the installation media

What do you mean? Reinstallation you mean?

trparkyfully integrated OneDrive with offline file support

Again, not something everyone uses. Onedrive is one of the first things I remove.

trparkyusable notifications with a history of them

More annoyances that get disabled.

trparkyhigh resolution DPI scaling that actually works (Windows 7 was piss shit poor at this)

What? Scaling works fine in Windows 7. Literally set it and forget it.

trparkysupport to reconnect to Bluetooth devices with a simple Windows Key + K, etc.

Ok , sure. Bluetooth support in Windows 7 was non-existent. However, they built it into Win10 and it could have been easily built into 7 with a service pack..

trparkyI really could go on and on with the improvements that I find very useful in Windows 10 over Windows 7.

Yes. we could do this back and forth thing all day long... And I could explain how many things have been removed from 10 that 7 has readily available, features that work and look better in 7 and how cumbersome many of the system functions have become, if they can be accessed at all.

trparkyHonestly, the only version of Linux that's really easy to use is Android and ChromeOS.

Clear you haven't used a recent Linux distro. For example, Mint(any GUI version) is very simple to use and easy to install. Installing software is as easy as opening the Linux version of the app store.

trparkyGoogle made it braindead fucking easy to use.

Yeah, that's true..

trparkyI should not EVER have to touch the command line and don't get me started with config files and command line switches. If you have more than six command line switches, you lost the average user. If you tell me to edit a config file, again... you lost the average user.

Most people would never need to do that anyway. 99.9% of anything that would need to be done by the average person is done in the GUI. It's really only the nitty-gritty advanced functionality that needs the CLI.

trparkyLike it or not, Windows is still king because the people in charge of many Linux distros can't get it through their damn heads that if you want to kill Microsoft stone dead, you have to make it so damn easy to use an idiot can use it.

You need to sit down with a mainstream Linux distro, any of the big ones will do. You sound like you're talking out your backside because you're clearly out of touch with how easy to use Linux is.

lexluthermiesterWhat do you mean? Reinstallation you mean?

You know, reinstalling the OS.

lexluthermiesterYou need to sit down with a mainstream Linux distro, any of the big ones will do. You sound like you're talking out your backside because you're clearly out of touch with how easy to use Linux is.

Try to get SAMBA to work without wanting to tear our hair out. Or, for that matter, CUPS. Getting a networked printer to work on Linux is a complete pain in the ass whereas on Windows it's easy as fuck. Hell, Windows goes out and finds it for you on the network and installs all appropriate drivers. Meanwhile on Linux, CUPS is an adventure in insanity. Mind you, all of what I know about Linux is about two years old since that's the last time I checked out Linux; Mint or otherwise. All I remember was that I installed it in a Virtualbox VM two or so years ago.

lexluthermiesterWhat? Scaling works fine in Windows 7. Literally set it and forget it.

Try running Windows 7 on a 4K monitor and get back to me. I've heard enough horror stories to know that I'd never attempt to do so. Up until Windows 10, about the only people to do upscaling properly was Apple with MacOS an that's only because their default monitors were some seriously high-resolution monitors that made just about anything in the PC space look pitiful by comparison.

trparkyYou know, reinstalling the OS.

And how is that done without install media? And why would you do it that way?

trparkyTry to get SAMBA to work without wanting to tear our hair out. Or, for that matter, CUPS.

I had to look both of those up. The average user wouldn't care about either of those.

trparkyGetting a networked printer to work on Linux is a complete pain in the ass

Nonsense. I have a network attached color laser printer. Mint never has a problem connecting to it.

trparkyWindows goes out and finds it for you on the network and installs all appropriate drivers.

Which it gets wrong half the time. That's an annoyance, not a feature.

trparkyMeanwhile on Linux, CUPS is an adventure in insanity.

I'll take your work for that. Most people will never use either and couldn't care less about samba or cups.

trparkyAll I remember was that I installed it in a Virtualbox VM two or so years ago.

Try a real machine and ignore crap normal users wouldn't care less about.

trparkyTry running Windows 7 on a 4K monitor and get back to me.

Been there, done that.

trparkyI've heard enough horror stories to know that I'd never attempt to do so.

More non-sense. It's dead easy. Try it yourself.

trparkyUp until Windows 10, about the only people to do upscaling properly was Apple with MacOS an that's only because their default monitors were some seriously high-resolution monitors that made just about anything in the PC space look pitiful by comparison.

And the farmer dragged off yet another load...

MindweaverI don't think they even care anymore and I was being very facetious when I said X. lol I mean are they even counting anymore.. I think they would use X for the symbol and not as a roman numeral. I mean XBox didn't mean 10box.

Since W10 maybe Microsoft is starting to become honest about software development in a big way: literally everything is iterative dev work, or derived and iterated upon. Everyone builds on existing code. Quite simply because your shit wont work otherwise OR is just economically impossible to make.

I mean, what is 10 really other than a reskin, feature shift and opening up new ways of delivery for builds? Its still the same OS and gets more refined.

lexluthermiesterYou're saying you're ok with the spying and the forced inclusion of software not easily removed?

Oh so it's this old thing that proves Nadella hates Windows. I disagree of course, but fine.

FrickOh so it's this old thing that proves Nadella hates Windows. I disagree of course, but fine.

I'm open to a different school of thought. My conclusion is based on decisions he's made about Windows. If that is a mistaken perception, then let's discuss why and why we should not dread this incoming update to/version of Windows.