This is looking good. 65W and scores faster than 5600X, with a worse process and lower frequencies (4Ghz all core, 4.4Ghz single). That is a good gain in just one generation.
And this is with DDR4, but nevertheless, this makes it a more equal comparison to Zen 3 since it also uses DDR4.

Good so AMD can't continue to hike their prices

Oh so surprise surprise, shocker Intel might actually have something. Not so long ago i remember all the 14nm++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ bullshit. GO ON intel

Bomby569Good so AMD can't continue to hike their prices

Prices for Zen 3 cpu's have been going down for a while now.

Bomby569Good so AMD can't continue to hike their prices

We might finally see the 5600x at below $200, the price it should have launched at. Go intel!

MakaveliPrices for Zen 3 cpu's have been going down for a while now.

talking about launch prices obviously. zen 3 are dropping in price like any old cpu does with time

MakaveliPrices for Zen 3 cpu's have been going down for a while now.

The problem remains that AMD has not really fielded a substitute for the $200 Ryzen 5 3600, even if somewhat discounted the 5600X remains much more expensive and AMD has openly neglected the mid-low tier segment because the semiconductor shortage made it more profitable to focus on the higher end.

TheinsanegamerNWe might finally see the 5600x at below $200, the price it should have launched at. Go intel!

You really think the performance leader should still sell at valuebrand prices? you think that is fair?

I just want to know the die size?

I'm betting those faster cores are Gigantic compared to Rocketlake

Vayra86Hey they need to sell those spanking new dGPUs too!

When, in 2024?

It's already been delayed a year now (if you think it will be out before 2024, I have bridge to sell you!)!

www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/intel-to-take-on-nvidia-amd-with-gaming-gpus-in-2022

were those benchmarks run on Windows 11 where MS is gimping Ryzen?
I REALLY expect techpowerup to do a proper oranges x oranges comparisson when benchmarking the new Intel gen, and running all tests on Windows 10

ZoneDymoYou really think the performance leader should still sell at valuebrand prices? you think that is fair?

Often when people look at corporations, they expect different decisions than those they might expect for themselves. For example, if you were the best employee in your workgroup, perhaps even pulling the weight of others, and your employer recognizes that and wanted to allocate more bonus money to you versus other members in your department, would you refuse? No doubt greed exists in the corporate world, but it’s not limited to just there. Just think of the luxury we’re talking about here—quibbling over the pricing of what is largely for hobby or recreation for most of us. If you needed this hardware to make a living, the pricing matters less, as you invest in hardware that makes you more productive, since the value of your time greatly exceeds that of a one-time, tax-deductbile purchase of a few hundred dollars. It’s a business decision.

Everyone wants more FPS for less, and really that reality still exists when supply is not an issue (like with GPUs). Today, the 5600X still costs less than the 9900K, and gaming performance is essentially the same. In other words, you pay less for the same FPS today than you did last year (and use less energy to boot). Or, you spend the same amount as last year and get even more performance. We can wish for things to be even cheaper, but it’s not as bad as it seems. If Adler Lake is indeed a good product, prices on Zen3 will just drop even more. Granted, there could stand to be a cheaper Zen3 than 3600X.The low end is really where things seem lacking lately.

Intel is ryzing

TurmaniaI don't know why amd is bothered about zen3+? They should release zen4 next....but then AMD has a history of shooting themselves in their own foot when they are leaders.

On the i5 12400, when most users are now in almost 5 ghz territory. Going back to 4 ghz.... I'm well aware frequency is not everything but still it holds some psychological weight. I'm sure it is a great cpu though those non k versions always were.

Yup, Zen3 with some extra cache won't be nearly enough to counter these bad boys and as it looks like now, by the time Zen4 finally shows up, it'll be pitted against Meteor Lake, which doesn't bode well for them at all. I believe the reason for this apparent shot in the foot is the same old one of late - they need TSMC's latest and greatest for Zen4 to work and currently they wouldn't get even nearly enough wafers, making them even more of a laughing stock as far as piss poor supply is concerned as they already were with Zen3 (and still continue to be in the mobile segment).
And this is the main problem with being fabless - yes, sometimes you strike gold (or, hmmm, at least silver) and you get both a good node and enough supply (mostly true with Zen2), but if you're not the big fish, others will knuckle in and only leave you scraps (=mostly Apple, especially now when they rely solely on TSMC). Honestly, the future isn't looking all that bright for team red...

i hope the entire AMD 5000 Lineup gets beaten... Only that way we'll have real competition, at least on the performance side, pricing is going UP no matter what...

TurmaniaHeard this all before, why are you obsessed with budgets? It is not like as if AMD is short of cash. And holding performance edge once in a quarter of a decade is nothing to brag about. The real accomplishment would be to to not to reach top but to stay there, don't you think the same? A promoted team from england won Premiership title, the year they were fabourites to go down, budget is not everything.

Intel has a larger R&D budget, but also a broader more diverse selection of IP under it's belt. AMD is the underdog and at a disadvantage and can still beat Intel regardless, but doing that consistently is no easy feat and odds are more favorable that they don't do so given the former. That is the root of the problem and part of where IP falls short and can cause anti competitive monopoly advantages over others trying to compete. How can you compete on a even footing with a smaller budget and less diverse IP portfolio that is only going to continue to become exaggerated the longer the competition dominates over you at the same time!? What do you do if the IP that you need to better compete is already patented and the very IP you need to compete at the same time? How is that not a monopoly in effect?

From what we know intel, people that think this will be the same price as 11400 as 190 usd might be mistaken, this will likely be a 300 usd cpu and that is the best case scenario.

HenrySomeoneYup, Zen3 with some extra cache won't be nearly enough to counter these bad boys and as it looks like now, by the time Zen4 finally shows up, it'll be pitted against Meteor Lake, which doesn't bode well for them at all. I believe the reason for this apparent shot in the foot is the same old one of late - they need TSMC's latest and greatest for Zen4 to work and currently they wouldn't get even nearly enough wafers, making them even more of a laughing stock as far as piss poor supply is concerned as they already were with Zen3 (and still continue to be in the mobile segment).
And this is the main problem with being fabless - yes, sometimes you strike gold (or, hmmm, at least silver) and you get both a good node and enough supply (mostly true with Zen2), but if you're not the big fish, others will knuckle in and only leave you scraps (=mostly Apple, especially now when they rely solely on TSMC). Honestly, the future isn't looking all that bright for team red...

Having your own Fab space isn’t cheap, is loaded with other kinds of risk, and it’s just as difficult to be innovative there as it is to design a good CPU. Leading edge semiconductor equipment is expensive, and it doesn’t just roll off the line like an F150. Before you can even begin producing, you’re competing with every other semiconductor company on the planet for the latest and greatest fabrication equipment, which is even rarer than renting fab space. This was part of what killed ”team red” back when they had their own Fab space. Their small size prevented them from even getting their hands on the newest equipment, and the investment in production was front-loaded with risk. Just look at AMD’s old Fab unit, GloFo—they aren’t landing deals with Apple, NVIDIA, or AMD for leading edge products. TSMC is a big player and is able to acquire the gear and material in order to be a leading edge producer.

Lastly, think of how much money Intel has invested in 10nm over the last probably 6-7 years. To this day, I can’t imagine that investment has been remotely close to break even, much less profitable. Even their successful 14nm line is now lower margin, as it can only produce oversized (to Intel’s design target) CPUs that can’t command top dollar. It was the high-demand that has saved Intel through a really really rough time, and their large market share and superior supply chain has kept them in the game. If AMD still had production and had the same struggles that Intel did with 10nm, there might not be an AMD anymore. Based on your posts, you almost appear to want that kind of world. I’d rather there are at least 2 players with highly performant designs. I’ve been following this for 25 years, and the best years for consumers were when neither company was “over.”

AMD will need a Zen3+ 5400XT 4 core/ 8 threads at $200ish going forward if the 12400 is truly competitive with the 5600X in single thread apps. Still Zen3+ is apparently going to be 10-15% stronger than Zen3, but I doubt a 5400 or 5600 will get 3D cache.

I don't know how much power the AIDA stability test usually draws, but it shows only 78,5w. Hopefully this powerful (to be confirmed) i5-12400 returns to i5-10400 consumption levels.

TurmaniaI don't know why amd is bothered about zen3+? They should release zen4 next....but then AMD has a history of shooting themselves in their own foot when they are leaders.

You're talking like CPU design is simple. Why did AMD bother with Zen when they could have just released Zen3? Hell, why isn't AMD just releasing Zen20?! CPU design isn't as simple as just releasing something better than the competition, as Intel has shown with their last few generations of mediocrity.

Zen3+ is still just a rumor, however if Zen3+ actually releases it is likely to be small batches of flagship processors with 3D Cache. For AMD to "just release" Zen4 they would need the process node chip capacity to actually make the processors, and their motherboard partners would need the chip capacity to build actual motherboards. Both are currently a difficult task.

defaultluseran we assume that this will be just as castrated as the Rocketry Lake 11400 (8 eus disables?)

Only Intel can find a way to make their new Core i5 processors even slower at iGPU than it's old HD 630!

I wonder how many builders purchase that cpu for it's onboard graphics when they can just spend a few more dollars on an 11500.

Try this with an AMD 5600x.

www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144396
MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA $139.99

or ...

www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b560m-aorus-pro/p/N82E16813145332
GIGABYTE AORUS B560M $139.99

www.calhountech.com/products/intel-cm8070804497016-intel-i5-11400f-4-4ghz-w-o-graphics.html
Intel Core i5-11400F $207.90

www.amazon.com/Gelid-Solutions-Black-CPU-Cooler/dp/B00BF3LF2I
Gelid Solutions Phantom Black CPU Cooler $39.99

www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-T-Force-Vulcan-3200MHz-Desktop/dp/B07T637L7T/
TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 3200MHz 16GB Kit (2x8GB) CL16 $63.97

Total: $452

Reviews of that cpu w/benchmarks.

www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i5-11400f-processor-review,1.html

www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/

EatingDirtYou're talking like CPU design is simple. Why did AMD bother with Zen when they could have just released Zen3? Hell, why isn't AMD just releasing Zen20?! CPU design isn't as simple as just releasing something better than the competition, as Intel has shown with their last few generations of mediocrity.

Zen3+ is still just a rumor, however if Zen3+ actually releases it is likely to be small batches of flagship processors with 3D Cache. For AMD to "just release" Zen4 they would need the process node chip capacity to actually make the processors, and their motherboard partners would need the chip capacity to build actual motherboards. Both are currently a difficult task.

That might have been the case once, but Zen3+ is firming as proper intermediate refresh across the range. No way AMD will cede so much performance to Intel even on lower tiers. It would be madness and arrogance to only add 3D cache to 5950X IMO.

Minus InfinityThat might have been the case once, but Zen3+ is firming as proper intermediate refresh across the range. No way AMD will cede so much performance to Intel even on lower tiers. It would be madness and arrogance to only add 3D cache to 5950X IMO.

I dunno. It’s all about cost/value. They can reprice existing products into lesser tiers to take away any mid/low level advantages, or at least squeeze Intel’s margins on their new design. That’s cheaper than making a new CPU, and the products are already in the supply chain. What AMD can’t do is cede the top spots. Invest there at key points, even if it just means winning in some situations and not in others. If the 5600X dropped to $199, it would probably be hard to pass up. Even still, if the goal of Zen3+ is more cache, the usual die harvesting can take place, so 5600X goes to $199, but perhaps a die-harvested 5600XT Zen3+ launches at $250. AMD’s main advantage at the moment is that Zen3 has been out for a year now, so they should understand the product line and limits well, and have had a year to profit off of it at higher margins. Now it can be turned into something that can probably corner Intel on pricing across most of the lineup. We gain as consumers with lots of great options in the midrange.

Alder Lake is shaping up to be something finally interesting from Intel, haven't been this interested since the X58 days.